Is Abortion Murder?

[HypnoToad]

Statement:
Originally Posted by Mobiosity
The mother is more valuable because she is a fully functioning independent adult.

Remember, she's backpeddled and claimed she didn't say "more valuable", but rather "more important". And I'm still waiting for her to explain what the difference is.

 

[Mobiosity]

Remember, she's backpeddled and claimed she didn't say "more valuable", but rather "more important". And I'm still waiting for her to explain what the difference is.

Obviously the granularity is such that you can't grasp the difference.

 

[HypnoToad]

Obviously the granularity is such that you can't grasp the difference.

Or perhaps, the difference just exists in your mind.

If you would just explain the difference, as I've asked 3 or 4 times now, we can all find out.

 

[dies-l]

Immoral?
Definitely

Murder?
Probably not.

It all seems to come down to the question of when a human life begins its existence as a human life. I have yet to hear a solid biblical or scientific argument that this occurs at conception. But, the damage that abortion on demand creates, imo, is that it perpetuates a societal the mentality that we can do as we please and that there are no consequences for our actions. Thus, it can encourage destructive choices by creating the illusion of removing the consequences. It also has been known to cause devastating consequences to the woman that she often does not fully comprehend at the time she seeks the abortion. Honestly, I think that the pro-life movement would gain more ground with skeptics by moving away from the "abortion is murder" approach, which will be disregarded by anyone who doesn't accept that life begins at conception, and instead the movement should emphasize the destructive consequences of abortion both on the women who obtain them and on the society as a whole.

 

[ElElena]

I was taught in school that a fetus was simply a blob so ........ abortion wasn't really murder...........and it was popular to simply say, "To each his own." Meaning let each person decide for themselves what they will do.

Then I witnessed the death of a baby. It was so sad. I am not saying I stood by and watched an abortion or anything like that. I witnessed the tragedy of a child dying at birth. It was traumatic.

My small inclination to say, "To each his own" was gone. I wouldn't think that way any longer.

I did see an abortion shown on a tv program and it made me sadder still.

The child is conceived and the child is alive until someone takes the life of that child away.

"To each his own" isn't even fitting because even though the mother may be excercising her right to her body someone is forgetting the rights of the child in the womb.

Abortion is murder. It is taking away a life. I do believe we will all be held accountable for the words of the mouth and the actions we perform while we are alive.

Isn't it true that God gives us free choice? If we choose to take the life of another because we want life to be simpler for us personally isn't that selfish? Doesn't the book of James say where selfish thoughts come from?

I don't suppose there is much of a reason for me to type much more on the subject at this time.

 

[ElElena]

I pondered on how someone may think that the Bible doesn't state whether or not a fetus is alive or not - specifically stating whether life has begun or not.

The Bible speaks of a pregnant woman as being "WITH CHILD" - I think that clarifies the situation quite well.

In the OT a woman fell backwards killing herself and her unborn child.

I believe the Bible makes it clear that pregnant women are carrying a living child within them.

 

[LeliAne]

I pondered on how someone may think that the Bible doesn't state whether or not a fetus is alive or not - specifically stating whether life has begun or not.

The Bible speaks of a pregnant woman as being "WITH CHILD" - I think that clarifies the situation quite well.

In the OT a woman fell backwards killing herself and her unborn child.

I believe the Bible makes it clear that pregnant women are carrying a living child within them.

You are right on the mark! It is a fallacy that the scientific community has spread worldwide that a fetus is but mere tissue and that until it takes its first breathe it it is still mere tissue. The outrageous hidious assumptions that have been going on for more then 50 years is evil at its finest. What it boils down to is the justification of murder, self-centeredness, and barbaric medical practices to support the "mental welfare of the mother". It is the cycle of pure madness. When Mary went to see Elizabeth while she was carrying John the Baptist he leaped in his mother's womb when Mary approached her as she carried Jesus our Savior....to say that they were just tissue is to dipute the Holy Word itself.

I get fired up because the value of life is expendable in the world's view. Funny how the mother's of all those who are pro-choice made the choice not to abort them, who support abortion/partial birth abortion. They get to run around and live to support evil at its finest point. Go figure!

 

[truthlvr]

When Mary went to see Elizabeth while she was carrying John the Baptist he leaped in his mother's womb when Mary approached her as she carried Jesus our Savior....to say that they were just tissue is to dipute the Holy Word itself.

Great point... what I was gonna say!

 

[IamAdopted]

The first thing in a fetus is the heart beat. The life is in the blood. If there is a heart beat there will be blood. Of course it is murder. For God knits this babies in the mothers womb. They may not be born yet but there is life in them. For the life is in the blood.

 

[Hadassah]

It means there are more things to be considered.

** Warning: Graphic text below **



I've worked for OB-GYNs (obstetricians/gynocologists), 3 of whom were Jewish and 3 Christian. The Jewish doctors explained to me that under Jewish law an abortion is reqired if there is something amiss with the fetus. This includes potential Down Syndrome and nonvital defects. I do not have any written proof, only their word as Jews that this is their law, handed down from God.....

To the vey best of my knowledge of Judaism and the Rabbinic teachings that generally going hand in hand with an Individual Jew's religious beliefs.... this would not be possible.

The only acceptance for an abortion to any Orthodox Jew would be if the pregnancy was tubal, or if there was something terribly wrong with the baby (such as missing head, which yes, does sometimes happen. I used to work at an OBGYN, and this happened a few times ).

I do not know for sure with Modern Orthodox, or Conservative Jews, but I am pretty sure it is about the same.

Reconstructionist or Reform... well you could have the same or completely opposite...

Oral Torah nor the written Word allow for it unless it is something terribly terribly wrong, such as the baby not even being alive... I don't really view that as abortion, but a miscarriage at that point.

My grandmother had a baby that died in utero, as well as my great aunt. The babies were not delivered of their own accord and the doctors had to take them.

Any other means, would not be permissable

If a woman died in childbirth, the understanding and tradition (from even Bible Days) is that even the Sabbath laws can be broken to save the life of the unborn.

Children with mental difficulties or physical impairments are not allowed to be terminated per scripture and Oral Law... In fact, this was one of the first things Nazi Germany started, along with Euthenasia of those who were handicapped, and other "undesireables"..!

If someone has questions about this, this is one of the easier to understand websites that explains it (The Jewish Understanding of Abortion) ...and it goes into the midrashic understanding of Scripture speaking towards and of abortion in Bible days.

I am sincerely saddened to hear that this was the case at your OBGYN office.

I do know that abortions were routinely done at the OBGYN where I worked, but due to there being a few Christian doctors and nurses, there was a move being made that they were not going to do this except in the cases I mentioned above, and were going to be a pro life clinic.

The other doctors got pretty upset (What about the minors? What about...`?) and two left the practice and started their own...(For other reasons as well) I am unsure whatever became of it, because I moved to another state and changed jobs.