Is abortion better than the alternative?

[Antoninus Verus]

Ok look...**Rubs face** We're going around in circles to the same music.

So lets change the beat.

Why do you feel it neccescary to force other people to accept your views, which is what you would be doing if you banned all abortion. Why make people who dont agree with you follow laws set by what you believe?

 

[Chloe Williams]

Why do you feel it neccescary to force other people to accept your views, which is what you would be doing if you banned all abortion. Why make people who dont agree with you follow laws set by what you believe?

Well, if you believed something was wrong, wouldn't you try to stop it? That is how alot of people feel about abortion, that it is wrong and we should try to stop it. Making laws, though not everyone may agree with, is just a way of stopping something we believe is wrong. No, it probably won't stop completely, but alot of people will be less likely to have an abortion if it is illegal.

*~*Chloe Williams*~*

 

[Seeking...]

Back to rape, rape is horrible and it is one of the most heinous of crimes. I know someone who was raped, she came to my school recently and spoke. She was raped while in Indonesia, and she became pregnant.

Was she heartbroken and horrified? Yes. Did she wonder why it had to happen? Yes. Did she wonder why she became pregnant as a result? Yes.
But she decided to carry that baby to term, and instead of adoption she chose to keep him. He is now a beautiful half-Indonesian four year old boy.

It is not worth an innocent's life for another. I don't want to accuse anyone for making a decision, but nine months to give that child a lifetime? You don't think that's worth it?
The child can be adopted to loving parents who will love and value that child, and that child may never even know s/he was the product of rape....

If I was raped I'd carry the baby to term, why? Two wrongs don't make a right and I couldn't go through the pain of being attacked and then having to live with the fact that I had to kill a baby. Yes, being pregnant and giving labor will be painful, but isn't that a sacrifice that most mothers make?

That child shouldn't be held responsible for the crimes of his/her father.

I am so sick of this anecdotal B.S..
If you were raped and made pregnant - you don't know what you would do.
You don't have a clue in this world.
Have you ever been violated in that way? Have you ever had someone use your body as if it belonged to them? Have you ever been made to feel non-existent, while being ripped apart?
If you haven't - then you don't know squat. If you have - then you still only know how you would react - not how everyone should or can.
I would abort any pregnancy to result from non-consensual sex and not to punish the child - I'd do it to maintain my life - which I have a right to. See - I've been sexually assaulted and it took years to feel as if my body belonged to me again. I would rather die than go through that again. I'm sorry - but the zygote, fetus, embryo, or baby does not have a right to my body - but I do.
I will never support legislation to ban abortions. Never. I will never be okay with telling a woman that her body is meant to serve some purpose beyond her control.

 

[Antoninus Verus]

Well, if you believed something was wrong, wouldn't you try to stop it? That is how alot of people feel about abortion, that it is wrong and we should try to stop it. Making laws, though not everyone may agree with, is just a way of stopping something we believe is wrong. No, it probably won't stop completely, but alot of people will be less likely to have an abortion if it is illegal.

*~*Chloe Williams*~*

How do you know alot of people will be less likely? I think the number will stay the same, maybe a bit lower, but people will still look. And instead of a clean office with a well-trained, professional staff, they walk into the back of Mike's Bar with Bruo standing there with a scalpel that has a pretty good chance of being infected with AIDS.

How do you counter that? People will ALWAYS look for an abortion. Dont you think its best they do that in the safest possible way, even if you dont agree with it?

 

[Chloe Williams]

If you were raped and made pregnant - you don't know what you would do.
You don't have a clue in this world.

Really? I know EXACTLY what I would do and it doesn't involve an abortion center.

Have you ever been violated in that way? Have you ever had someone use your body as if it belonged to them? Have you ever been made to feel non-existent, while being ripped apart?

nope.

If you haven't - then you don't know squat. If you have - then you still only know how you would react - not how everyone should or can.

Insulting people isn't helping your arguement any.

I would abort any pregnancy to result from non-consensual sex and not to punish the child - I'd do it to maintain my life - which I have a right to.

Unfortunately, punishing the child would be exactly what you would be doing, even if you weren't trying to.

See - I've been sexually assaulted and it took years to feel as if my body belonged to me again. I would rather die than go through that again. I'm sorry - but the zygote, fetus, embryo, or baby does not have a right to my body - but I do.

I am sorry to hear that you have been sexually assalted, but God has a right to your body (concidering he created it) and if he decides he wants you to have a baby, what right do you have to argue with God?


*~*Chloe Williams*~*

 

[Chloe Williams]

How do you know alot of people will be less likely?

I don't know for sure. What I should have said is, I believe it will go down because people probably won't want to run the risk of getting a back alley abortion, or getting caught doing something that is against the law.

*~*Chloe Williams*~*

 

[StammerA]

I believe that it is God's timing and Will, whether a person lives or passes. It is NOT THE CHOICE of a Woman to take the life of her child. That child is a gift of God.
It says in the Bible that God is with that child, even while the child is in the womb and knows everyday of that child's life, even before he/she takes their first breath....
Psalms 139:16
NOT EVEN to take our own lives.
I wanted to back in 1998: Because I thought everyone would be better off with out me getting in the way. If I had done it.... I wouldn't have given birth to my Summer Faith ( who passed away 4 yrs ago at the age of 5 months) I never got to bring her home, and much stress, sorrow, and tears were shed, during her lifetime,and at her passing. I learned after sending emails out with each surgery that she had, and keeping my faith strong in God, and Praising Jesus Name..... I learned months after her passing that her life touched so many people, that three people told me that because of her life, and her passing, it made them think about theirs...and THEY accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Savior.
One person, I never Met.... I sent emails out and he started recieving them.... I'm in California....and he was in the US Army, stationed in West Germany. "God's Intervention: he later told me."
See, If had taken my own life, because I was suffering..... Those three people may not have accepted Christ, because of Summer's. If I had aborted Summer, because she was "NOT NORMAL" those three people may not have accepted Christ.
All unborn babies ARE VALUABLE. With a genetic discorder or not.
In your own suffering.... YOU CAN BE A WITNESS to God's Grace and Mercy and Strength.

 

[gallykid08]

you can keep your life, keep you body, keep the baby alive.

perfectly possible.

so killing the baby isnt punishing it? then what is it?

please.

and dont go making assumptions about what we do and dont know

 

[Antoninus Verus]

I don't know for sure. What I should have said is, I believe it will go down because people probably won't want to run the risk of getting a back alley abortion, or getting caught doing something that is against the law.

*~*Chloe Williams*~*

Even if fewer people did seek abortions, they would be endangering themselves and others by doing so illegally, so, as I asked before, if people are going to get abortions no matter what, wouldnt you rather they did it in the safest way possible, even if you dont agree with it?

 

[gallykid08]

Even if fewer people did seek abortions, they would be endangering themselves and others by doing so illegally, so, as I asked before, if people are going to get abortions no matter what, wouldnt you rather they did it in the safest way possible, even if you dont agree with it?

if they seek abortions and endanger themselves it would be their choice. however with abortion being legal...its on the government's shoulders.

abortion is actually becoming big business...especially with stem cell research etc. thats one thing that scares me. i see it going down that direction.

 

[Antoninus Verus]

if they seek abortions and endanger themselves it would be their choice. however with abortion being legal...its on the government's shoulders.

abortion is actually becoming big business...especially with stem cell research etc. thats one thing that scares me. i see it going down that direction.

And what direction is that?

 

[Lokisdottir]

if they seek abortions and endanger themselves it would be their choice. however with abortion being legal...its on the government's shoulders.

Wait. So women have the right to endanger their own lives by getting an illegal abortion, but they don't have right to a safe, legal abortion?

As for it being on the government's shoulders, insurance doesn't cover abortions (as far as I know). The cost of an abortion comes out of the woman's own pocket.

 

[gallykid08]

my whole point is this. i think abortion is murder. i dont think we have the right to abort babies because they're ''defective'' or ''rape-babies'' or even just for convience.

if the government supports the murder of those babies...thats my point. its on the government's shoulders for allowing it.

and also on the woman's for choosing it.

as for the direction...if abortion is becoming big business like i see it. they're gonna want more abortions.

 

[Antoninus Verus]

as for the direction...if abortion is becoming big business like i see it. they're gonna want more abortions.

Huh? What are they gonna do? Send teams of men out to rape women so they get scared and want an abortion?

my whole point is this. i think abortion is murder. i dont think we have the right to abort babies because they're ''defective'' or ''rape-babies'' or even just for convience.

I agree with the convience, but I dont think ANY woman should HAVE to carry a baby concieved by rape or if it threatens her life

 

[Chloe Williams]

Even if fewer people did seek abortions, they would be endangering themselves and others by doing so illegally, so, as I asked before, if people are going to get abortions no matter what, wouldnt you rather they did it in the safest way possible, even if you dont agree with it?

I wouldn't want anyone to be harmed by having a back alley abortion, but even the abortions that are being performed today aren't 100% safe. Women can have their uterus torn, it can cause them to have to have a hysterectomy (sp?). I think that women should have all the information possibly before making a decision. Women have said before that they wish they had had more information before making a bad desicion.

*~*Chloe Williams*~*

 

[gallykid08]

but fact is verus...most abortions are done for convience. only abt 2 percent are because of rape.

as for defective babies...why abort them?

and not many cases in pregnancy where it threatens the mother's life. often, doctors can save both.

most abortions are done for convience.

 

[Lokisdottir]

if the government supports the murder of those babies...thats my point. its on the government's shoulders for allowing it.

and also on the woman's for choosing it.

So let them shoulder the burden on their own.

as for the direction...if abortion is becoming big business like i see it. they're gonna want more abortions.

But how are they going to get more? Put up propaganda posters of happy smiling women with slogans like "Abort Today!"?

No. Abortion is not a business to advertise for. It'll never happen. Just to make sure it's clear, pro-choice women don't like getting abortions. Moral dilemmas aside, it is an invasive, expensive procedure. For the vast majority, it is a last resort, to be avoided if at all possible. Women who use abortions as ordinary birth control are either rich, stupid, or both.

One doesn't "rake in customers" for abortion.

 

[Antoninus Verus]

I wouldn't want anyone to be harmed by having a back alley abortion, but even the abortions that are being performed today aren't 100% safe. Women can have their uterus torn, it can cause them to have to have a hysterectomy (sp?). I think that women should have all the information possibly before making a decision. Women have said before that they wish they had had more information before making a bad desicion.

*~*Chloe Williams*~*

ANY medical procedure is potentially harmful. Even getting a flu shot. But that risk is significantly lower if performed by trained, professional staff using the right equipment in a sterile environment.

ALOT safer than Guido "Butcher" Maxie doing it on a pool table with an olive fork and beer for steralyzer.

 

[morningstar2651]

but fact is verus...most abortions are done for convience. only abt 2 percent are because of rape.

Where is that statistic from? I can't find it.

 

[SaintGeorge]

If you legalize abortion, you legalize premeditated murder, because that's what it is. If you abort a baby, or even asist in its abortion, you are a murderer. Now do you see why women who have abortions go through such emotional trauma? It's because we as a society have lied to them by telling them that killing another human being is okay, because it's not really a human being. Only after the deed is done do they realize the horrible truth. From the very moment of conception, human life begins. To end it is an unspeakable crime. It is people who do not believe in an objective truth that makes life a living hell at times. Take Hitler for example. He did not consider the Jews to be human, so he killed them. How is abortion any different? You believe a fetus is not a human, so you kill it. Congradulations! You've lowered yourself to the level of Adolf Hitler.

Ever read 1984? The abortion mentality reminds me a lot of that book. Here's some quotes so you can see what I mean.

Work is freedom
Ignorance is strength
There are no lies, only untruths
War is peace

Now lets see how the abortion mentality lines up with those quotes...

A human baby is not human

Oh my gosh! Look! It fits in exactly with the 1984 quotes! I guess you've been brain-washed by the party.

Anyways, my point is, the rationale behind abortion makes no since. You claim to be pro-choice, yet you deprive a human being of the choice to live. Don't all humans have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, born and unborn alike? Did not the American founding fathers promise these rights to both themselves and their posterity? Ponder these points.