Is abortion better than the alternative?

[Zlex]

as for defective babies...why abort them?

I wonder if anyone supports that.

 

[Chloe Williams]

I wonder if anyone supports that.

Nevermind what I said before. It was a bit of a "blonde moment" (no offense to blondes lol). I wasn't thinking lol sorry.
*~*Chloe Williams*~*

 

[Lokisdottir]

I would support that.

*~*Chloe Williams*~*

You would? That seems a little out of character.

 

[Seeking...]

Really? I know EXACTLY what I would do and it doesn't involve an abortion center.

You assume that you know. Do you believe that every woman to ever have an abortion approved of abortion before they had one? I have known women who had serious religious and moral issues with abortion (an still do) - however, they found themselves in a situation that had to be dealt with. Abortion was the sad and neccesary solution.

nope.

Good for you. Hope you never do.

Insulting people isn't helping your arguement any.

I'm not insulting you. If you have not experienced a situation - you don't know what someone who has is going through - that is common sense. I also didn't really present an agrument - it was rant borne out of frustration.

Unfortunately, punishing the child would be exactly what you would be doing, even if you weren't trying to.

Actually I wouldn't. The child would be denied life on this world - something they weren't even aware of. Everyone dies eventually - death isn't punishment. Losing those things you treasure is. The child hasn't experienced life outside of the womb, so they haven't treasured it - and they aren't being punished by being denied it.

I am sorry to hear that you have been sexually assalted, but God has a right to your body (concidering he created it) and if he decides he wants you to have a baby, what right do you have to argue with God?

That would be your opinion or the opinion of doctrine you choose to follow. I believe God gave me my body to have dominion over - period. I have the right to argue with anyone who seeks to use my body against my will.

 

[Antoninus Verus]

Actually I wouldn't. The child would be denied life on this world - something they weren't even aware of. Everyone dies eventually - death isn't punishment. Losing those things you treasure is. The child hasn't experienced life outside of the womb, so they haven't treasured it - and they aren't being punished by being denied it.

Seek if I had a lump of gold and the rest of my life Id carve you a throne. THANK you. You have managed to say what I have been trying to say, though albeit a bit muddled.

 

[Chloe Williams]

You would? That seems a little out of character.

I don't know what you mean. They asked why would any abort a defective baby. Unless I misinterpreted the question (which is entirely possibly) I don't see how that is out of character.

*~*Chloe Williams*~*

 

[Lokisdottir]

I don't know what you mean. They asked why would any abort a defective baby. Unless I misinterpreted the question (which is entirely possibly) I don't see how that is out of character.

*~*Chloe Williams*~*

You made it sound like you were in favor of aborting defective babies.

 

[ASLER86]

Ok look...**Rubs face** We're going around in circles to the same music.

So lets change the beat.

Yep...this debate has been going on in circles for a while....

Why do you feel it neccescary to force other people to accept your views, which is what you would be doing if you banned all abortion. Why make people who dont agree with you follow laws set by what you believe?

Because by my research (all religious concerns aside) , I have come to the conclusion that abortion that abortion is wrong, and that life starts in the womb.

If you came to the realization that something was wrong, wouldn't you want to do something about it?

On another slant to the debate, did anyone visit those two links that I mentioned earlier in the debate? Questions, thoughts, comments?

 

[Chloe Williams]

You made it sound like you were in favor of aborting defective babies.

ooops! I will have to go back and edit!

*~*Chloe Williams*~*

 

[Antoninus Verus]

If you came to the realization that something was wrong, wouldn't you want to do something about it?

It depends. Some things occur right now that I know are wrong. But I know that to try and apply a solution might only worsen the problem or that the problem is insurmountable.

Sometimes you have to accept things the way they are. I dont like Bush and I think what he does is wrong, but short of killing him, theres nothing I can do about it.

 

[gallykid08]

Where is that statistic from? I can't find it.

i found it from statistics from planned parenthood. i'll have to re find the exact source

and i believe that was addressed earlier on in this discussion too.

 

[Chloe Williams]

You assume that you know.

I would appreciate it if you would quit telling me what I know and don't know about the decisions I would make. I think I know myself better than you do.

Actually I wouldn't. The child would be denied life on this world - something they weren't even aware of. Everyone dies eventually - death isn't punishment. Losing those things you treasure is. The child hasn't experienced life outside of the womb, so they haven't treasured it - and they aren't being punished by being denied it.

Just because the baby hasn't had the opportunity to treasure life outside the womb, doesn't mean killing it isn't a punishment. I would concider not having the opportunity to treasure life outside the womb a punishment.

*~*Chloe Williams*~*

 

[StammerA]

The child would be denied life on this world - something they weren't even aware of. Everyone dies eventually - death isn't punishment. Losing those things you treasure is. The child hasn't experienced life outside of the womb, so they haven't treasured it - and they aren't being punished by being denied it.

You would be taking the chance for that HUMAN BEING, no matter the size, to serve our Loving God.
The ultimate gift that we have been given is freedom of Choice by God himself. That freedom of choice was NOT intended to play the role of God, that FREEDOM of choice was to choose to Love and Accept Christ as our personal Savior Or NOT TO.
You would be SNATCHING away the opportunity for that person to Love,Worship, PRAISE and Serve Christ the Lord. You would in a sense be helping Satan (NOT realizing it,though) Because that is something that pleases Satan the most..... if he could just TAKE OUT ONE more Child of God. That would be JUST one less bothersome "christian" who could lead someone to God, through Jesus Christ.


I could have been one of the humans that would have been aborted, had it been legal just a few years before it actually became legal. And I KNOW, as I've stated in different postings, that because of my life, and a child that God Blessed me with, that has passed.....I was told by three people who accepted Christ because of my "Summer Faith's" life. If I hadn't given birth to her (because of her anomolies) those three people would not have accepted Christ.

 

[StammerA]

Wait. So women have the right to endanger their own lives by getting an illegal abortion, but they don't have right to a safe, legal abortion?
/QUOTE]
I DON'T think a woman has the right to endanger her own life by having an illegal abortion! And I don't think she has the right to MURDER/Ruthlessly, the child that God has blessed her with , No matter how or when it came to be.

Just like the story of Joseph and his brothers. Joseph was sold...because his brothers didn't like him.....Joseph had a very hard life, because of the sinful actions of his brothers.
(A woman becomes pregnant, out of wedlock, because of her sinful actions)
But Joseph used Joseph to save the people of Egypt and consequently saving the lives of his brothers who were sinful against him. God took a sinful act, that humans freely did, and turned it into a blessing of the world.
(Just like he can take the sinful act of sex out of wedlock, and possibly bless the world by the child that was concieved)
It's not our right, privilege, or duty to allow the WOMAN to commit murder.

 

[Lokisdottir]

You would be taking the chance for that HUMAN BEING, no matter the size, to serve our Loving God.
The ultimate gift that we have been given is freedom of Choice by God himself. That freedom of choice was NOT intended to play the role of God, that FREEDOM of choice was to choose to Love and Accept Christ as our personal Savior Or NOT TO.
You would be SNATCHING away the opportunity for that person to Love,Worship, PRAISE and Serve Christ the Lord. You would in a sense be helping Satan (NOT realizing it,though) Because that is something that pleases Satan the most..... if he could just TAKE OUT ONE more Child of God. That would be JUST one less bothersome "christian" who could lead someone to God, through Jesus Christ.


I could have been one of the humans that would have been aborted, had it been legal just a few years before it actually became legal. And I KNOW, as I've stated in different postings, that because of my life, and a child that God Blessed me with, that has passed.....I was told by three people who accepted Christ because of my "Summer Faith's" life. If I hadn't given birth to her (because of her anomolies) those three people would not have accepted Christ.

But it's not all about Christians. What about children born to parents of other faiths? What about children like me who, despite being born Christian, chose to follow another path?

Also, what about children, like me, who don't bring people to Christ, but lead them away from him? I can think of at least three people who've renounced their faith since they've met me -- not because of any conscious action on my part, but because I showed them, through my actions, the beauty of skepticism. Two of them were hardcore fundamentalists, too, so it's not like they were already on the fence to begin with.

If our only purpose is to serve Christ, and make others serve Christ as well, does that mean it would have been okay to abort me? After all, it would save me and three others from an eternity of hellfire.

(That's a rhetorical question. It would have been okay to abort me, had that been my mother's choice. I'm glad she didn't, but that's only because I'm here now, and have become rather fond of this life and this body that I've spent 18 years in.

(Anyway, I believe in reincarnation to some extent, so hey, it's not like this is my only chance to experience life on Midgard.)

 

[Antoninus Verus]

I DON'T think a woman has the right to endanger her own life by having an illegal abortion! And I don't think she has the right to MURDER/Ruthlessly, the child that God has blessed her with , No matter how or when it came to be.

Pardon my French but it doesnt matter what you THINK, it is a fact that people will turn to back alley abortions if mainstream abortions are made illegal. Think till your blue in the face, it wont change human nature.

But it's not all about Christians. What about children born to parents of other faiths? What about children like me who, despite being born Christian, chose to follow another path?

I would also like to know the answer to this too. Banning abortion is making a law based on your faith. You think God says its wrong to have an abortion so you want to make it wrong for EVERYBODDY.

 

[ASLER86]

Pardon my French but it doesnt matter what you THINK, it is a fact that people will turn to back alley abortions if mainstream abortions are made illegal.

Hence, education. Did you visit those links? If anyone needs them again pm me.

I would also like to know the answer to this too. Banning abortion is making a law based on your faith. You think God says its wrong to have an abortion so you want to make it wrong for EVERYBODDY.

Not ALL pro-lifers are religious.

 

[Antoninus Verus]

Hence, education. Did you visit those links? If anyone needs them again pm me.

They also teach abstinance in school, which I dont think they should, and you see how well thats working out

 

[AliveInChrist]

This is part of the reason I am against the pro-life movement.

If you TOTALLY banned abortions, arent you affraid that some people might go and get them any ways? Back alley abortion clinics where the doctor is less than trained and working in a dirty environment with a questionable knowleage of medicine and tools that MIGHT be clean.

A few years back I read a news story about places like these in India where the abortion was performed with a bent wire hanger and often resulted in serious injury on the woman's part and in some cases even death.

So a TOTAL ban on abortion, I think, would solve nothing. You'd be creating twice the problems for everyone.

Anyone who keeps up with the many pro-choice demonstrations in the United States cannot help but see on pro-choice placards and buttons a drawing of the infamous coat hanger. This symbol of the pro-choice movement represents the many women who were harmed or killed because they either performed illegal abortions on themselves (i.e., the surgery was performed with a "coat hanger") or went to unscrupulous physicians (or "back-alley butchers"). Hence, as the argument goes, if abortion is made illegal, then women will once again be harmed. Needless to say, this argument serves a powerful rhetorical purpose. Although the thought of finding a deceased young woman with a bloody coat hanger dangling between her legs is -- to say the least -- unpleasant, powerful and emotionally charged rhetoric does not a good argument make.

According to the U.S. Bureau of Vital Statistics, there were a mere 39 women who died from illegal abortions in 1972, the year before Roe v. Wade. Dr. Andre Hellegers, the late Professor of Obstetrics and Gynecology at Georgetown University Hospital, pointed out that there has been a steady decrease of abortion-related deaths since 1942. That year there were 1,231 deaths. Due to improved medical care and the use of penicillin, this number fell to 133 by 1968. The year before the first state-legalized abortion, 1966, there were about 120 abortion-related deaths.

It is misleading to say that pre-Roe illegal abortions were performed by "back-alley butchers" with rusty coat hangers. While president of Planned Parenthood, Dr. Mary Calderone pointed out in a 1960 American Journal of Health article that Dr. Kinsey showed in 1958 that 84% to 87% of all illegal abortions were performed by licensed physicians in good standing. Dr. Calderone herself concluded that "90% of all illegal abortions are presently done by physicians." It seems that the vast majority of the alleged "back-alley butchers" eventually became the "reproductive health providers" of our present day.

 

[Chloe Williams]

If our only purpose is to serve Christ, and make others serve Christ as well, does that mean it would have been okay to abort me? After all, it would save me and three others from an eternity of hellfire.

No, it wouldn't have been ok for your mother to abort you. And just because you aren't a Christian, doesn't mean you can't change.

*~*Chloe Williams*~*