Is aborting a baby murder?

[d taylor]

-
​

A person must be born of water first.
Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

verse?

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Home Content Index Books of the Bible Numbers Abortion in Numbers
QUESTION
Is Numbers 5:11-31 referring to God causing an abortion?
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Numbers abortion, jealousy offering
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ANSWER

Numbers 5:11–31 describes an unusual procedure, sometimes referred to as the “jealousy offering.” Others label it “the ordeal of bitter water.” An Israelite man who insisted his wife was unfaithful—but had no proof—could bring her to the tabernacle for this test. The ritual required an accusing husband to bring his wife to the priest. The priest would create a concoction of unpleasant but relatively benign ingredients. The wife would recite an oath and drink the mixture. Guilt was demonstrated if the woman’s belly swelled and she became sick. If there was no such effect, her innocence was established. Conviction for adultery would be followed by a possible death sentence (Leviticus 20:10). Innocence meant clearing her name, putting away all suspicion. The woman would suffer no ill effects “and will be able to have children” (Numbers 5:28).



Critics label this test a barbaric, superstitious ritual involving sorcery (see Deuteronomy 18:9–13). Others suggest that it depicts an abortion. Neither view is correct. While bizarre, the rite protected women from husbands who were overly aggressive or hasty in their judgments. It offered a safe outlet for male jealousy and prevented emotional or physical abuse. It kept Israelites from visiting pagan temples. And it would have nearly always exonerated the woman in question.

Many seemingly strange rules of the Old Testament helped mediate a sinful, fallen culture. And such is the case with the “jealousy offering” or “bitter water ordeal” of Numbers 5:11–31. It provided a stopgap measure that people could reasonably be expected to follow. This parallels the Mosaic Law’s procedures for divorce, intended to prevent women from being easily abused or cast aside (Deuteronomy 24:1–4; cf. Matthew 19:8).

There was nothing magical about the concoction the priest would make to determine guilt or innocence. Nor would the listed ingredients naturally produce swelling or severe illness. This implies a supernatural source for a “guilty” sign. In other words, for a woman to be exposed as blameworthy by the “curse” of this ritual, God would have to intervene and make the signs appear. This follows the perspective that adultery is fundamentally wrong as a sin against God, rather than simply an insult to the husband.

It’s also noteworthy that the process is heavy on symbolism and drama. Components such as temple dust, an offering, water, and the loosening of the hair are representative of ideas such as repentance, holiness, and submission. One purpose for these components is the psychological effect they have on participants. Many ancient tests for innocence were structured in a similar way. A guilty conscience would be strained by fear, likely leading to a confession before the “curse” could be enacted. The rite was meant to exemplify the principle explained in Numbers 32:23: “Be sure your sin will find you out.” Some ancient Jewish commentators even believed the curse would affect the adulterous male, as well (Talmud Sotah 27b:3)

Those who claim the passage depicts abortion insert concepts not even hinted at in the text. Part of this confusion stems from the 2011 edition of the NIV, which refers to miscarriage. Pregnancy is not part of the requirement for the ritual. Nor is pregnancy mentioned anywhere in the process. The effects include some type of swelling and/or shriveling. Yet the targeted body part is vague. In fact, it’s the same Hebrew term used to describe the spot where Jacob suffered his infamous injury (Genesis 32:25), as well as the place where Ehud hid his sword (Judges 3:16). At worst, the Numbers 5 passage implies future infertility. The ritual was not a remedy for an unwanted pregnancy—it was a test for adultery. Traditional interpretations of the ritual even restricted it from being performed on pregnant women (Mishnah Sotah 4:3).

 

[Oompa Loompa]

verse?

Show the verse that specifically states that the woman was pregnant.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

See When does soul life begin in the womb? and follow up there

The Catholic Church does not state when ensoulment takes place. However,
she takes the position of erring on the side of life.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

FYI, by definition, murder is the "illegal" killing of an innocent person.

Abortion in the US, is legal so by definition, not murder.

However, it is an intrinsic moral evil that is akin to murder.

If you use the term, "murder," with a pro-abortionist, they'll deny it's murder
and give you the definition of the term, "murder."

 

[AV1611VET]

FYI, by definition, murder is the "illegal" killing of an innocent person.

Abortion in the US, is legal so by definition, not murder.

However, it is an intrinsic moral evil that is akin to murder.

If you use the term, "murder," with a pro-abortionist, they'll deny it's murder
and give you the definition of the term, "murder."

That's because they change "child in the womb" to "fetus".

 

[JimR-OCDS]

That's because they change "child in the womb" to "fetus".

It doesn't matter what they changed the name of the child to.
If it's legal, it's technically not murder. Otherwise all our soldiers
could be charged with murder when they killed the enemy.

 

[BobRyan]

Exodus 20:13 New International Version:

You shall not murder.​

LXX:

Οὐ φονεύσεις [G5407].​

Is aborting a baby murder?

The author of the Didache (1st century AD) thought so, Didache 2:

2 ου φονευσεις [G5407], ου μοιχευσεις, ου παιδοφθορησεις, ου πορνευσεις, ου κλεψεις, ου μαγευσεις, ου φαρμακευσεις, ου **φονευσεις τεκνον** εν φθορα ουδε γεννηθεν αποκτενεις.​

not you will murder , not you will do adultry , not you will do child sex, not you will do illicit sex, not you will steal , not you will do magic, not you will do sorcery , not you will murder child to destruction neither newly begotten in the womb you will kill.​

Lightfoot translated the Greek into the English "abortion":

{Thou shalt do no murder, thou shalt not commit adultery,} thou shalt not corrupt boys, thou shalt not commit fornication, {thou shalt not steal,} thou shalt not deal in magic, thou shalt do no sorcery, thou shalt not murder a child by abortion nor kill them when born,​

amen. Abortion is murder

Elsewhere in Numbers 5:

27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.​

Did God cause abortion in this case?

God commanded a great many people to be executed - that does not mean we are free to murder.

You are skipping past too many details.

 

[tonychanyt]

God commanded a great many people to be executed - that does not mean we are free to murder.

You are skipping past too many details.

Elsewhere in Numbers 5:
27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.

Did God cause abortion in this case?

 

[BobRyan]

Elsewhere in Numbers 5:
27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.

Did God cause abortion in this case?

God gave a command that resulted in death, and he did that many more times than this with every "man woman and child" in certain cities around Israel.

What is your point??

 

[tonychanyt]

God gave a command that resulted in death, and he did that many more times than this with every "man woman and child" in certain cities around Israel.

What is your point??

More specifically Numbers 5:27b it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry

Did God cause the miscarriage/abortion?

 

[Wings like Eagles]

Is aborting a baby murder?

Yes

 

[tonychanyt]

Yes

Can you give support?

 

[HoneyBee]

From both a philosophical and scientific standpoint, I'd have to say that, yes, abortion is murder.

Murder is the premeditated killing of another human being.
Abortion is the premeditated killing of a human being. Fetuses are human beings from the moment of conception (there's no other species they could possibly be, regardless of their size or age).

One could make the argument for difficult cases, but still, murder is murder no matter how it is framed. Still, I have much compassion for the women who have had abortions.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Exodus 20:13 New International Version:

You shall not murder.​

LXX:

Οὐ φονεύσεις [G5407].​

Is aborting a baby murder?

The author of the Didache (1st century AD) thought so, Didache 2:

2 ου φονευσεις [G5407], ου μοιχευσεις, ου παιδοφθορησεις, ου πορνευσεις, ου κλεψεις, ου μαγευσεις, ου φαρμακευσεις, ου **φονευσεις τεκνον** εν φθορα ουδε γεννηθεν αποκτενεις.​

not you will murder , not you will do adultry , not you will do child sex, not you will do illicit sex, not you will steal , not you will do magic, not you will do sorcery , not you will murder child to destruction neither newly begotten in the womb you will kill.​

Lightfoot translated the Greek into the English "abortion":

{Thou shalt do no murder, thou shalt not commit adultery,} thou shalt not corrupt boys, thou shalt not commit fornication, {thou shalt not steal,} thou shalt not deal in magic, thou shalt do no sorcery, thou shalt not murder a child by abortion nor kill them when born,​

Elsewhere in Numbers 5:

27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.​

Did God cause abortion in this case?

I think the issue is more complex than simply the two extreme positions of pro-life and pro-choice. See When does soul life begin in the womb?.

I do agree that the issue is more complex than the two extreme positions would indicate. I consider myself pro-life, because I believe in holding to an ethic that emphasizes and cherishes life; but I also recognize that calling every termination of a pregnancy "murder" ignores just how much complexity and messiness is involved. For example, if terminating a pregnancy is the only way to save the life of a pregnant woman, especially when keeping the pregnancy will result in the loss of both mother and child, then surely those extenuating circumstances should be considered.

Thus, I also consider myself pro-choice; however I have serious problems with attempts to try and de-humanize the unborn; as though a fetus developing in the womb simply can't be human and that terminating a pregnancy isn't the terminating of a human life. Of course it is the termination of a human existence.

I think it's wrong if we pretend that abortion isn't a deeply complex, uncomfortable, and ethically challenged issue. And that wholesale black and white answers completely ignores and attempts to make abstract what involves actual and real people. We aren't talking about statistics, we aren't talking about abstract ideas, we are talking about real flesh and blood, real people with real situations. And not every situation is identical. There is a deeply unsettling amount of grey when it comes to this topic.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Exodus 20:13 New International Version:

You shall not murder.​

LXX:

Οὐ φονεύσεις [G5407].​

Is aborting a baby murder?

The author of the Didache (1st century AD) thought so, Didache 2:

2 ου φονευσεις [G5407], ου μοιχευσεις, ου παιδοφθορησεις, ου πορνευσεις, ου κλεψεις, ου μαγευσεις, ου φαρμακευσεις, ου **φονευσεις τεκνον** εν φθορα ουδε γεννηθεν αποκτενεις.​

not you will murder , not you will do adultry , not you will do child sex, not you will do illicit sex, not you will steal , not you will do magic, not you will do sorcery , not you will murder child to destruction neither newly begotten in the womb you will kill.​

Lightfoot translated the Greek into the English "abortion":

{Thou shalt do no murder, thou shalt not commit adultery,} thou shalt not corrupt boys, thou shalt not commit fornication, {thou shalt not steal,} thou shalt not deal in magic, thou shalt do no sorcery, thou shalt not murder a child by abortion nor kill them when born,​

Elsewhere in Numbers 5:

27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.​

Did God cause abortion in this case?

I think the issue is more complex than simply the two extreme positions of pro-life and pro-choice. See When does soul life begin in the womb?.

yes

 

[Diamond72]

Is aborting a baby murder?

Yes and it is difficult for that child to understand why the parents would do that. The child is in Heaven and if the parents want to go to Heaven they will need to be reconciled with that child. There are lots of children in Heaven hoping that their parents will repent so they can be joined back together with them.

I use to picket abortion clinics. Over the years women have told me they decided to have a child because of the picketers. They are very glad they had that child and this brings a lot of joy to their life. The abortion clinic took us to court for upsetting their patients. The court just worked out a compromise. They did not really side with one side or the other. People do need to make their own choice and I believe they will be accountable for the choice they make.

Life, health and healing is always the right choice.

 

[Tall Timbers]

Yes, abortion is murder except for when it happens naturally in which case it is usually called a miscarriage.