Is a moderate party viable?

[Archivist]

We aren’t a democracy, we are a republic with democratic elements. Both parties are big tents, so they hold a range of views and factions within their parties.

True. And while the Democrats are currently seen as being the more liberal party and the Republicans that more conservative party, that has not always been the case.

 

[Albion]

would a centrist or moderate party work, or is that not a coherent enough ideology to rally support?

You have one in the Republican Party at present, whether or not there are three parties. The notion that the Republican Party is a rightist party flies in the face of the facts. Some of its leading figures are, but many are not, as anyone who follows the events of the last several years can easily see.

 

[Percivale]

You have one in the Republican Party at present, whether or not there are three parties. The notion that the Republican Party is a rightist party flies in the face of the facts. Some of its leading figures are, but many are not, as anyone who follows the events of the last several years can easily see.

Right and left are pretty vague terms. Libertarianism and Fascism have practically nothing in common but both are seen as Right-wing.

 

[Albion]

Right and left are pretty vague terms. Libertarianism and Fascism have practically nothing in common but both are seen as Right-wing.

They are...but mainly by people who have no idea of what issues are involved with the placement of the various movements on a political spectrum or else choose to focus on only one or two characteristics of a political movement and label it accordingly.

 

[ananda]

We aren’t a democracy, we are a republic with democratic elements. Both parties are big tents, so they hold a range of views and factions within their parties.

"We are a democracy", "We are a democracy", "We are a democracy", "We are a democracy" ...

Maybe they believe the idea that repeating a lie often & loud enough will make it true.

 

[Karin12414]

That depends on the state. I'm asked when I show up at the polls which primary ballot I want.

Interesting. What state is that? I know in Florida we have to be one of the two. Independant is basically a wasted party when it comes to primaries.

 

[sfs]

Interesting. What state is that?

Massachusetts. I only remembered how it's done here because I just voted in a primary a couple of weeks ago.

 

[hedrick]

You have one in the Republican Party at present, whether or not there are three parties. The notion that the Republican Party is a rightist party flies in the face of the facts. Some of its leading figures are, but many are not, as anyone who follows the events of the last several years can easily see.

20 years ago that was true. It's not true any more. These days the Democrats are the moderate party. (They have a more radical wing, and press accounts suggested that this wing was taking over. But recent primaries have ended up mostly with moderate candidates. I say *mostly* because they are exceptions.) Actually, I'm not sure I'd call the Republicans rightist. There are some attributes of it. But they're mostly just plutocrats, and support socially regressive causes. My sense is that most Republicans actually aren't this way, but partisan politics is such that people in congress vote the party line too much of the time.

 

[Karin12414]

Massachusetts. I only remembered how it's done here because I just voted in a primary a couple of weeks ago.

Lucky! I can't stand that they make us chose between just the two.

 

[hedrick]

I've thought a bit about this issue. My sense is that the actual candidates may well be moderate, but financing is pushing things in a partisan direction. Would Republicans have voted for a tax cut that we can't afford unless the big donors were demanding it? would they be so uniform in opposing any gun control if they weren't afraid of having the NRA back a candidate in the next primary? I doubt it. (Similar issues occur for Democrats.)

This is why campaign reform was such an important issue, and Citizens United such a disaster.

What we need are moderate billionaire supporters, or campaign reform. But why would someone invest millions in a campaign unless they expected some sort of special treatment? I don't think we're going to see large moderate donors.

 

[Albion]

20 years ago that was true. It's not true any more.

I disagree.

These days the Democrats are the moderate party.

And that is just unbelievable.

Actually, I'm not sure I'd call the Republicans rightist. There are some attributes of it. But they're mostly just plutocrats, and support socially regressive causes.

Ah, I see now.

 

[Karin12414]

I've thought a bit about this issue. My sense is that the actual candidates may well be moderate, but financing is pushing things in a partisan direction. Would Republicans have voted for a tax cut that we can't afford unless the big donors were demanding it? would they be so uniform in opposing any gun control if they weren't afraid of having the NRA back a candidate in the next primary? I doubt it. (Similar issues occur for Democrats.)

This is why campaign reform was such an important issue, and Citizens United such a disaster.

What we need are moderate billionaire supporters, or campaign reform.

What we need is for everyone to care enough to educate themselves and participate in their part of the process.

56% of Americans did not vote, myself included. That's more than half of the entire country! That's insane!!!

I truly believe we are just as, if not more, responsible for the state of the Nation because we had a chance to make our voice heard and stand for something, but instead, we thought staying silent would be our way of doing that. Well, look what it got us. I was trying to be a rebellious 22 year old and now I am feeling like I lost my chance to make the most important decision for our country. I failed at my part, but I WON'T let it happen again.

Do you know it is ILLEGAL not to vote in Australia?!?! That's how important and serious this process is, but the ones in power have made it their goal to jade us and make us stop caring so they could be the only ones voting and making all the decisions with no one to stop them, AND IT'S WORKING.

We say things like "my vote doesn't matter" or "the process is rigged" but none of that is true. The voting process isn't rigged, it works just fine when EVERYONE is participating. Your vote, even though it's just one, is a representation of what you stand for. Why would we choose to stand for nothing and then get angry when things start to go insane? That's got hypocrite written all over!

We have a responsibility and it's not even a hard one! ALL we need to do is pay attention, be informed and participate in the process. The immigrants that come here and gain citizenship take this more seriously than we do, that is disgraceful! We aren't being asked to run a marathon or solve the hardest physics problems, just to CARE, BE INFORMED and PARTICIPATE.

I am ashamed I didn't see all of this when it really mattered, but we always get another chance I won't mess up this time.

 

[Percivale]

What we need is for everyone to care enough to educate themselves and participate in their part of the process.

56% of Americans did not vote, myself included. That's more than half of the entire country! That's insane!!!

I truly believe we are just as, if not more, responsible for the state of the Nation because we had a chance to make our voice heard and stand for something, but instead, we thought staying silent would be our way of doing that. Well, look what it got us. I was trying to be a rebellious 22 year old and now I am feeling like I lost my chance to make the most important decision for our country. I failed at my part, but I WON'T let it happen again.

Do you know it is ILLEGAL not to vote in Australia?!?! That's how important and serious this process is, but the ones in power have made it their goal to jade us and make us stop caring so they could be the only ones voting and making all the decisions with no one to stop them, AND IT'S WORKING.

We say things like "my vote doesn't matter" or "the process is rigged" but none of that is true. The voting process isn't rigged, it works just fine when EVERYONE is participating. Your vote, even though it's just one, is a representation of what you stand for. Why would we choose to stand for nothing and then get angry when things start to go insane? That's got hypocrite written all over!

We have a responsibility and it's not even a hard one! ALL we need to do is pay attention, be informed and participate in the process. The immigrants that come here and gain citizenship take this more seriously than we do, that is disgraceful! We aren't being asked to run a marathon or solve the hardest physics problems, just to CARE, BE INFORMED and PARTICIPATE.

I am ashamed I didn't see all of this when it really mattered, but we always get another chance I won't mess up this time.

Even counting the primaries and minor parties, there was no presidential candidate last time that I was really enthusiastic about, though a few were good enough. I kind of reluctantly voted libertarian, rather than write in a name. I wish there were more options and a system like approval voting to make more than two viable.

One other issue with a moderate party has shown up in the last few comments, a lot of us define moderate differently depending on our political beliefs.

 

[FaithfulPilgrim]

Even counting the primaries and minor parties, there was no presidential candidate last time that I was really enthusiastic about, though a few were good enough. I kind of reluctantly voted libertarian, rather than write in a name. I wish there were more options and a system like approval voting to make more than two viable.

One other issue with a moderate party has shown up in the last few comments, a lot of us define moderate differently depending on our political beliefs.

I almost voted for Gary Johnson, but since I could not stand Hillary, I ended up voting for Trump as I did not want to waste my vote. It’s more of a vote against Hillary than a vote for Trump.

If Clinton wasn’t the Democratic nominee, I’d probably would have voted for the Libertarians.

 

[ananda]

would a centrist or moderate party work, or is that not a coherent enough ideology to rally support?

It will not work in the long term, because a moderate party requires moderate members, and that requires members to value moderation - aka, compromise for the good of both "you" and "me", and not just "me". That in turn requires wisdom, the ability for long-term planning, compassion, self-restraint, and intelligence - qualities which are in short supply among the masses, IMO.

 

[Albion]

It will not work in the long term, because a moderate party requires moderate members, and that requires members to value moderation - aka, compromise for the good of both "you" and "me", and not just "me". That in turn requires wisdom, the ability for long-term planning, compassion, self-restraint, and intelligence - qualities which are in short supply among the masses, IMO.

...and a willingness to be taken advantage of by another party whose main interest is in winning.

 

[Karin12414]

Even counting the primaries and minor parties, there was no presidential candidate last time that I was really enthusiastic about, though a few were good enough. I kind of reluctantly voted libertarian, rather than write in a name. I wish there were more options and a system like approval voting to make more than two viable.

One other issue with a moderate party has shown up in the last few comments, a lot of us define moderate differently depending on our political beliefs.

Totally agree.

While I do believe the voting system works exactly the way it is supposed to if ALL parts participate, I never said I thought it was a good system. There are so many problems with government anywhere you go. It can't really be helped because sinners are the ones running everything (ourselves included). Once you give someone enough power, they will probably corrupt it.

And when you think about the people being born into power, they just work to obtain more. There really isn't going to be an end to that on this side of the Kingdom Not unless every single politician believes in Christ today, or even tomorrow, heck I'd give them till next year. But what are the odds of that happening if we are being totally honest with ourselves?

Really depressing when you think about it.

 

[Arcangl86]

Why the so-called "biggest democracy in the world" only has 2 parties, is something I have found to be baffling all my life.

It makes zero sense.

India has far far more then 2 parties.

 

[Speedwell]

And that is just unbelievable.

Mostly, it's just too simple. There are many Americans who would not normally club up with "plutocrats" but who can't find a home for their social views in the Democratic party. Likewise, there are those who are relatively conservative on many issues but are social liberals who wind up having no place else to go. I used to be a Republican until the party "got religion" and would have crossed over again to vote for McCain if he hadn't been running with that silly woman from Alaska.

 

[Newtheran]

would a centrist or moderate party work, or is that not a coherent enough ideology to rally support?

Given the existential nature of the issues that divide the political left and right in the United States, I don't think it's even possible to define a "moderate" political platform, let alone form a party. This is no longer a discussion about whether a 25% or a 55% income tax rate is the appropriate one.