Is a Jerusalem Third Temple needed before Zechariah 14 can happen?

mkgal1 · Nov 13, 2019

DennisTate said:
I am convinced that the answer to this question is ....... yes!

But it is pretty amazing how divided we Christians are on this topic so far.

"HOW MANY AGES ARE THERE?"

William Barclay says:Time was divided by the Jews into two great periods-- this present age, and the age to come. The present age is wholly bad and beyond all hope of human reformation. If can be mended only by the direct intervention of God. When God does intervene the golden age, the age to come, will arrive. But in between the two ages there will come the Day of the Lord, which will be a time of terrible and fearful upheaval, like the birth-pangs of a new age.
Zechariah 14 teaches us that the "Day of the Lord" and the destruction of Jerusalem were connected. So, the destruction of Jerusalem, which was the Day of the Lord, marked the end of one age, the Jewish age, and the beginning of the new age, the Christian age of the New Covenant.

To the Jews, time was divided into two great periods, the Mosaic Age and the Messianic Age. The Messiah was viewed as one who would bring in a new world. The period of the Messiah was, therefore, correctly characterized by the Synagogue as "the world to come." All through the New Testament we see two ages in contrast: "This age" and the "age to come."

Matthew 12:32 (NKJV) "Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

The word "come" at the end of the verse is the Greek word mello, which means: " about to be." We could translate this, the "age about to come" (in the first century). Many think that the age to come will be a sinless age; not according to this verse. Sin against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in that age, referring to the age of the New Covenant, our present age. We see here that both of these ages have sin in them.

Ephesians 1:21 (NKJV) far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.

William Lefranc · Nov 13, 2019

DennisTate said:
I am convinced that the answer to this question is ....... yes!

But it is pretty amazing how divided we Christians are on this topic so far.

Should Christians support Rebuilding of Jerusalem Third Temple.

Should Christians support Jerusalem Third Temple?
Edit

*
Yes... the words of Ezekiel must come to pass.
6 vote(s)
16.2%

No.... it will lead to the rise of the Anti-Christ fellow.
3 vote(s)
8.1%

Yes.... living waters will flow from the restored Third Temple.
0 vote(s)
0.0%

No... Christians must not support animal sacrifice.
19 vote(s)
51.4%

I am not certain but I will research this question further.
4 vote(s)
10.8%

No... this could cause a war to break out.
5 vote(s)
13.5%

Change Your Vote

Grant R. Jeffrey Ph. D. made some fascinating comments on the relationship between the Messianic Jewish community of the first century.......... until the destruction of the Temple...... and he compared what happened then with what will happen when Ezekiel chapters 40 - 48 are finally fulfilled in the millennium.

What proof do we have in the NT that Ezekiel chapter 40-48 will become a reality sometime in the future?

Please provide chapter and verse to prove this point, while at the same time, please explain what part does the finished work of redemption that God the Son accomplished at the cross was incomplete to the point that we will need to go back to the old covenant (again) that was made obsolete (Heb. 8:13) when the new and everlasting covenant was introduced through the shed blood of Christ? (Mat. 26:28, Mark 14:24, Lk 22:20, 1Cor. 11:25, Heb. 9:28, 12:24, 13:20).

In my opinion, Grant R. Jeffrey is an apostate that has deceived many Christians to believe absolute lies

William Lefranc · Nov 13, 2019

mkgal1 said:
"HOW MANY AGES ARE THERE?"

William Barclay says:Time was divided by the Jews into two great periods-- this present age, and the age to come. The present age is wholly bad and beyond all hope of human reformation. If can be mended only by the direct intervention of God. When God does intervene the golden age, the age to come, will arrive. But in between the two ages there will come the Day of the Lord, which will be a time of terrible and fearful upheaval, like the birth-pangs of a new age.
Zechariah 14 teaches us that the "Day of the Lord" and the destruction of Jerusalem were connected. So, the destruction of Jerusalem, which was the Day of the Lord, marked the end of one age, the Jewish age, and the beginning of the new age, the Christian age of the New Covenant.

To the Jews, time was divided into two great periods, the Mosaic Age and the Messianic Age. The Messiah was viewed as one who would bring in a new world. The period of the Messiah was, therefore, correctly characterized by the Synagogue as "the world to come." All through the New Testament we see two ages in contrast: "This age" and the "age to come."

Matthew 12:32 (NKJV) "Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

The word "come" at the end of the verse is the Greek word mello, which means: " about to be." We could translate this, the "age about to come" (in the first century). Many think that the age to come will be a sinless age; not according to this verse. Sin against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in that age, referring to the age of the New Covenant, our present age. We see here that both of these ages have sin in them.

Ephesians 1:21 (NKJV) far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.

I don't understand what point you are trying to make. Can you succinctly tell me what are you trying to convey?

DennisTate · Nov 13, 2019

William Lefranc said:
What proof do we have in the NT that Ezekiel chapter 40-48 will become a reality sometime in the future?

Please provide chapter and verse to prove this point, while at the same time, please explain what part does the finished work of redemption that God the Son accomplished at the cross was incomplete to the point that we will need to go back to the old covenant (again) that was made obsolete (Heb. 8:13) when the new and everlasting covenant was introduced through the shed blood of Christ? (Mat. 26:28, Mark 14:24, Lk 22:20, 1Cor. 11:25, Heb. 9:28, 12:24, 13:20).

In my opinion, Grant R. Jeffrey is an apostate that has deceived many Christians to believe absolute lies

View attachment 266656

Thank you for replying to this topic... obviously you and I disagree on how far this statement should be taken:

Luke 24:25 "Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:"

William Lefranc · Nov 13, 2019

DennisTate said:
Thank you for replying to this topic... obviously you and I disagree on how far this statement should be taken:

Luke 24:25 "Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:"

Let me help you here with Luke 24, and let me add one more scripture. Put them in the correct context, the word of God speaks for itself,

Luke 24:25–27 (NKJV)
25 Then He said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!
26 Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?”
27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself."

Luke 24:44–45 (NKJV)
44 "Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.”
45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures."

John 5:39–40 (NKJV)
39 "You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.
40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life."

Now tell me, why do you disagree with the word of God?

DennisTate · Nov 13, 2019

William Lefranc said:
Let me help you here with Luke 24, and let me add one more scripture. Put them in the correct context, the word of God speaks for itself,

Luke 24:25–27 (NKJV)
25 Then He said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!
26 Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?”
27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself."

Luke 24:44–45 (NKJV)
44 "Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.”
45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures."

John 5:39–40 (NKJV)
39 "You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.
40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life."

Now tell me, why do you disagree with the word of God?

View attachment 266660

If the writings in the Psalms, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the minor prophets about the crucifixion and horrible death of Messiah are to be believed............

... then you expect me to NOT believe in the amazing predictions there in Ezekiel chapters forty to forty eight?

Especially....
Ezekiel 47

William Lefranc · Nov 13, 2019

DennisTate said:
If the writings in the Psalms, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the minor prophets about the crucifixion and horrible death of Messiah are to be believed............

... then you expect me to NOT believe in the amazing predictions there in Ezekiel chapters forty to forty eight?

Especially....
Ezekiel 47

If you take the Lord out of the picture, you can believe anything. Jesus, God the Son fills the scriptures from Genesis to Revelation.

What do you believe that sets the Lord aside or makes the cross nothing but another piece of the puzzle?

DennisTate · Nov 18, 2019

seventysevens said:
The building of a third temple is entirely a Jewish matter - The Jews that have not accepted Christ are those that want the third temple.
I have not heard of Messianic Jews pushing for a third temple - however some may if they think it will usher in the coming of our Lord sooner

IF... a Christian.......a Gentile... assists in a huge way to set the stage for the rebuilding of the Jerusalem Third Temple and /or an Ezekiel temple complex that fits the description given in Ezekiel 40 to Ezekiel 48 then that Gentile could come to be considered Moshiach ben Ephrayim who is like Cyrus.

Appendix II

The essential task of Mashiach ben Yossef is to act as precursor to Mashiach ben David: he will prepare the world for the coming of the final redeemer. Different sources attribute to him different functions, some even charging him with tasks traditionally associated with Mashiach ben David (such as the ingathering of the exiles, the rebuilding of the Bet Hamikdash, and so forth).4

This may be necessary to occur several years previous to the full fledged fulfillment of Zechariah 14 if...... it is true that sacrifices are offered for three and half years.....then stopped by the anti-Christ...... and then three and half years later Zechariah 14 comesto pass ????

keras · Nov 18, 2019

DennisTate said:
This may be necessary to occur several years previous to the full fledged fulfillment of Zechariah 14 if...... it is true that sacrifices are offered for three and half years.....then stopped by the anti-Christ...... and then three and half years later Zechariah 14 comesto pass ????

Zechariah 14:1-2 will happen when the Anti-Christ breaks the 7 year peace treaty with the Christian people. Then he will enter the new Temple and declare himself to be God. 2 Thess 2:4, Daniel 11:31. Zechariah 14:3-5, the Return of Jesus will occur 3 1/2 years later. Immediately after the Tribulation of those days.... , Matthew 24:29-30 The Great Tribulation of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls.

DennisTate · Nov 19, 2019

keras said:
Zechariah 14:1-2 will happen when the Anti-Christ breaks the 7 year peace treaty with the Christian people. Then he will enter the new Temple and declare himself to be God. 2 Thess 2:4, Daniel 11:31. Zechariah 14:3-5, the Return of Jesus will occur 3 1/2 years later. Immediately after the Tribulation of those days.... , Matthew 24:29-30 The Great Tribulation of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls.

This is very similar to what I have believed for many years......
thank you for this!

Benjamin Holliday · Nov 20, 2019

Mankind is the third temple. The Bible says that we are the temple of God.

DennisTate · Nov 20, 2019

Benjamin Holliday said:
Mankind is the third temple. The Bible says that we are the temple of God.

In a way that is certainly true......
but that in no way rules out there also being a literal Jerusalem Third TEmple and / or a literal Ezekiel 40
to Ezekiel 48 temple complex where every word written in those chapters is fulfilled literally......... but also metaphorically within restored mankind.

DennisTate · Nov 20, 2019

William Lefranc said:
If you take the Lord out of the picture, you can believe anything. Jesus, God the Son fills the scriptures from Genesis to Revelation.

What do you believe that sets the Lord aside or makes the cross nothing but another piece of the puzzle?

View attachment 266661

After fulfilling the scariest scriptures in the Bible about the scourging, the death, burial and resurrection of Messiah the Passover Lamb.... do you really think that in His glorified form Messiah Yeshua - Jesus will NEGLECT to fulfill every word from Ezekiel 40
to Ezekiel 48 .....
especially the astonishingly positive and encouarging Ezekiel 47 ???

Luk 24:25

Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

William Lefranc · Nov 20, 2019

DennisTate said:
After fulfilling the scariest scriptures in the Bible about the scourging, the death, burial and resurrection of Messiah the Passover Lamb.... do you really think that in His glorified form Messiah Yeshua - Jesus will NEGLECT to fulfill every word from Ezekiel 40
to Ezekiel 48 .....
especially the astonishingly positive and encouarging Ezekiel 47 ???

Luk 24:25

Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

Your personal interpretation of the scriptures is flawed. OLD covenant promises cannot usurp or ignore the NT (new covenant) without receiving its full support. It is the NT that explains and fulfills the OT. This means that we cannot take isolated scriptures from the OT and give them our personal twist.

The OT was fulfilled in Christ (Lk 24:25-27, 44-45, Jn 5:39-40), therefore whatever promises that appeared in the OT to Israel were subject to the obedience of the covenant people. So, since Israel rebelled against the Lord, broke the covenant, and went on to kill their own Messiah, they forfeited what God wanted to do for them.

Only the godly Jews that came to Christ were able to inherit the promise of complete forgiveness of sins and received the gift of eternal life.

By the way, the greater temple is here which came to us by the giving of the Holy Spirit (Col. 1:27).

It's all about Jesus.

DennisTate · Nov 20, 2019

William Lefranc said:
Your personal interpretation of the scriptures is flawed. OLD covenant promises cannot usurp or ignore the NT (new covenant) without receiving its full support. It is the NT that explains and fulfills the OT. This means that we cannot take isolated scriptures from the OT and give them our personal twist.

The OT was fulfilled in Christ (Lk 24:25-27, 44-45, Jn 5:39-40), therefore whatever promises that appeared in the OT to Israel were subject to the obedience of the covenant people. So, since Israel rebelled against the Lord, broke the covenant, and went on to kill their own Messiah, they forfeited what God wanted to do for them.

Only the godly Jews that came to Christ were able to inherit the promise of complete forgiveness of sins and received the gift of eternal life.

By the way, the greater temple is here which came to us by the giving of the Holy Spirit (Col. 1:27).

It's all about Jesus.

View attachment 266984

Technically you are correct that my understanding could be flawed because there is not even one subject or topic in scripture that I would claim to have perfect understanding of!

But...... what about what was shown to near death experiencer and former Skeptic Howard Storm? What he was shown about what Messiah Yeshua - Jesus wanted to do on the earth by the year 2185, (within two centuries of his 1985 near death experience)..... sure does remind me of many powerful statements in Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the minor prophets!

Howard Storm's Near-Death Experience

The image of the future that they gave me then, and it was their image, not one that I created, surprised me. My image had previously been sort of like Star Wars, where everything was space age, plastics, and technology.

The future that they showed me was almost no technology at all. What everybody, absolutely everybody, in this euphoric future spent most of their time doing was raising children. The chief concern of people was children, and everybody considered children to be the most precious commodity in the world.

And when a person became an adult, there was no sense of anxiety, nor hatred, nor competition.

There was this enormous sense of trust and mutual respect. If a person, in this view of the future, became disturbed, then the community of people all cared about the disturbed person falling away from the harmony of the group. Spiritually, through prayer and love, the others would elevate the afflicted person.

What people did with the rest of their time was that they gardened, with almost no physical effort. They showed me that plants, with prayer, would produce huge fruits and vegetables.

People, in unison, could control the climate of the planet through prayer. Everybody would work with mutual trust and the people would call the rain, when needed, and the sun to shine.

Animals lived with people, in harmony.

People, in this best of all worlds, weren't interested in knowledge; they were interested in wisdom. This was because they were in a position where anything they needed to know, in the knowledge category, they could receive simply through prayer. Everything, to them, was solvable. They could do anything they wanted to do.

In this future, people had no wanderlust, because they could, spiritually, communicate with everyone else in the world. There was no need to go elsewhere. They were so engrossed with where they were and the people around them that they didn't have to go on vacation. Vacation from what? They were completely fulfilled and happy.

Is a Jerusalem Third Temple needed before Zechariah 14 can happen?

Does the Jerusalem Temple come before Zechariah 14 fulfilled?

No.... we Christians are the temple.

Yes.... the words of Ezekiel must come to pass....

I am not sure... but I will definitely research this.....

No....

Yes.....

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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