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Is a Contiguous Count of Daniel’s 70 Weeks found in New Testament Writings?

Is a Contiguous Count of Daniel’s 70 Weeks found in New Testament Writings?


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grafted branch

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One other thing I would point out is that Jesus was baptized and anointed in the 69th week.

Mark 1:12 says Jesus was immediately driven into the wilderness after being baptized.

In John 1 Jesus is declared to be the Lamb of God, this had to take place after he was in the wilderness for 40 days because He goes to the wedding on the third day.

Not that this makes any difference about the 70 weeks being contiguous or not but some people do insist that Jesus was baptized in the 70th week and also that his baptism was the day he started his ministry.
 
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Christian Gedge

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In John 1 Jesus is declared to be the Lamb of God, this had to take place after he was in the wilderness for 40 days
Thanks. Yes, and probably waited after the 40 days while breaking his fast. I estimate he was baptised late AD 26. He would’ve come back by the same route that he left to go into the wilderness. When John saw him again, he made the announcement in the Spring.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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please read carefully. Someone, i.e. sovereingrace, in this thread claimed that John the Baptist's actions of introducing the Messiah "instigated" the 70th week of Daniel.
I've already read carefully. You don't need to tell me that. I'm already aware of this. Tell me why it's impossible for that to be the start of the 70th week.

I didn't miss what he wrote. I was going by what you said. So, nevermind all that and just tell me why it's impossible for what he said to be true. You can't just claim that without saying why.

Is this all you have to explain why John the Baptist introducing the Messiah couldn't be the start of the 70th week? And you think this argument is convincing? It certainly isn't to me. I don't buy any of this stuff about a supposed future Antichrist. Daniel 9:24-27 is all about Jesus Christ.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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No, you are missing it as you've been told many times. The "vision" of verse 23 is the insight/prophecy that Gabriel gave in verses 24-27. Until you realize that you are going to continue to be way off base about the 70 week prophecy. You can't even give any reasonable explanation of the fulfillment of Daniel 9:24 and you expect to be taken seriously with your understanding of the rest of the passage?
 
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Douggg

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I didn't miss what he wrote. I was going by what you said. So, nevermind all that and just tell me why it's impossible for what he said to be true. You can't just claim that without saying why.
I did say why in a previous post.

"In Daniel 9:26a, the messiah is cutoff before the 70th week begins in Daniel 9:27. John the baptist preceded the messiah and him being cutoff in Daniel 9:26a. So it is impossible that John the baptist instigated the 70th week of Daniel 9."

______________________________________________

John the baptist baptizes Jesus, in the Jordan river.

Then years afterward, Jesus is cutoff in Jerusalem in Daniel 9:26a.

Then after Jesus is cutoff in Daniel 9:26a, is the 70week beginning in Daniel 9:27.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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I can't make any sense out of what you're saying here. I usually can understand what you're saying even though I almost always disagree with you, but not this time. This time I can't even figure out what you're trying to say.

On what basis are you saying that "the messiah is cutoff before the 70th week begins"? It says he is cut off after the 69th week ends, so why can't He be cut off during the 70th week? His baptism starts the 70th week and then he is cut off in the middle of the 70th week. I don't see how you're concluding that this is not a possible scenario.
 
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Douggg

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On what basis are you saying that "the messiah is cutoff before the 70th week begins"? It says he is cut off after the 69th week ends, so why can't He be cut off during the 70th week?
Because there is a gap of time, an interruption to the 70 weeks, from when the (true) messiah arrived in Jerusalem - (*interruption) - to the end times 70th week reserved for the vision about the little horn person (false messiah) to take place.

The coming little horn person, perceived by the Jews as the messiah, but is a false messiah, will have the law read from the temple mount, with him present in a big televised event. That is what actually starts the 70th week.

Having the law read to the nation of Israel, is a requirement Moses made as way of confirming the Mt. Sinai covenant on a 7 year cycle. Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

______________________________________________________________

* during the first 4 days into the interruption, the religious leaders turn the people against Jesus and he is crucified.





 
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DavidPT

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You would think, if a rebuilt temple is relevant to the fulfilling of Daniel 9:27, one would have already been built by now or at least someone should have already started the building process by now. So what's the holdup then? So until I see a temple rebuilt and animal sacrificing resuming in it, I'm going to continue to assume your interpretation of that verse is incorrect in the meantime.
 
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Douggg

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The Jews believe that the messiah will have a hand in building the next temple.

The temple complex that John was told to measure in Revelation 11:1 will be downsized, patterned on the tent tabernacle complex in the Exodus... to get the animal sacrifices going again as quickly as possible.

The Antichrist will have a part in rebuilding that temple complex, on it being an interim, and having no outer court wall. The temple complex will not take up but a portion of the temple mount. Should not take long at all because the sanctuary building will only have to be 15ft by 30ft.

There will have to be a brazen altar. And some tables for the temple priest to prepare the animals they will have sacrificed by cutting their jugular.

In the open area on the temple mount, called the outer court in Revelation 11:2, is where the abomination of desolation statue image of the beast will be placed - visible for everyone to see, and the signal for the Jews to flee to the mountains.
 
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3 Resurrections

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We do indeed have NT confirmation of the beginning of Daniel's 70th week having taken place immediately following the 69th. Christ Himself told the Jews when the beginning of that 70th week had started. This was in Mark 1:14-15, after John had been put in prison (in AD 30). "Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, THE TIME IS FULFILLED, and the kingdom of God is at hand:" (meaning "presently here") "repent ye and believe the gospel." It was at this time when Christ began selecting His 12 disciples to follow Him.

That particular "THE TIME" or the specific established season (ho kairos) that Christ announced had been fulfilled was the ending of the 69th week, and the beginning of the 70th week that had just been launched. This 70th week began not at Christ's baptism, but at the beginning of His public ministry of miracles, of which the first miracle was at Cana with the water turned into wine (John 2:11). This first miracle at Cana "manifested forth His glory; and His disciples believed on Him" because of this. After this first miracle, Christ went to Capernaum for a period of "not many days", where He immediately performed His next miracle in the synagogue of casting out the unclean spirit of the man in Mark 1:23, followed immediately by healing Simon's mother and many others of the city, and casting out many devils that same day.

This sudden burst of miracles performed by Christ in Capernaum and Galilee (which was at the beginning of Daniel's 70th week) had been prophesied long before in Isaiah 9:1-2. As Matthew 4:13-17 wrote, "And leaving Nazareth, He came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, 'The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; the people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.' From that time, Jesus began to preach, and to say 'Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.' "

Isaiah's prophesied "light springing up" was to be fulfilled by a sudden, immediate burst of significant miracles happening in that very specific region of Galilee of the Gentiles. This surge of miracles performed by Christ was set against the prior backdrop of John's ministry, which had been characterized by John doing NO miracles toward the end of that 69th week as John "fulfilled his course" (Acts 13:25). "The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it." This Luke 16:16 verse shows a clear line of demarcation between John and Christ. In other words, a line of division between the end of the 69th week when John had "fulfilled his course" and the beginning of the 70th week when Christ said "The time is fulfilled...".

Christ gave testimony to His own record of miracles performed as proof of His divinity to the unbelieving Jews in John 10:38. The many Jews who resorted unto Christ and who did believe in Him said, "John did no miracle: but all things that John spake of this man were true. And many believed on Him there." (John 10:41). This was Christ the Lord, the "messenger of the covenant", who was "confirming the covenant with many" of Daniel's people during that 70th week, who did believe on Him because of the miracles He performed in those days.
 
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Zao is life

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@Christian Gedge

Moses had been called by God to deliver Israel out of the house of bondage in Egypt and into the promised land (Exodus 13:3), but after being delivered from bondage in Egypt, Israel wandered in the wilderness for 40 years due to unbelief (Hebrews 3:12-19).

Two men named Dathan and Abiram rose up in opposition against Moses with respect to:

(A) His message; and
(B) His authority over the people.

Numbers 16:12-14
"And Moses sent to call Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab.
And they said, We will not come up. Is it a small thing that you have brought us up out of a land that flows with milk and honey, to kill us in the wilderness, but must you also seize dominion over us?
Besides, you have not brought us into a land that flows with milk and honey, nor given us inheritance in fields and vineyards. Will you put out the eyes of these men? We will not come up."

Moses' message from the beginning had been that God would deliver "the woman" out of the house of bondage in Egypt and into the promised land, but Dathan and Abiram did not believe, and opposed Moses.

THE EARTH SWALLOWED THEM UP

Numbers 16
32 And the earth opened her mouth and swallowed them up, and their households, and all the men who were for Korah, and all their goods.

As far as I know the above is the only possible biblical type for this:

Revelation 12
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water like a flood after the woman, so that he might cause her to be carried away by the river.
16 And the earth helped the woman. And the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the river which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

The 1,260 days or "time, times and a half a time" that the woman was "in the wilderness" after her Child had been caught up to God and to His throne (Revelation ch.12), is metaphorically referencing both the final 3.5 years in Daniel's 70th "week" and the 40 years in-between the ascension of the Messiah and the year that the temple was destroyed?

The apostles announced to the Jews that the New Covenant had come for the rest of that "week", and the gospel was preached for the rest of the 40 years in-between the ascension of Christ and the destruction of the temple in A.D 70.

The final crushing of the Jewish opposition in 70 A.D is metaphorically referred to as the earth swallowing up the flood?

"And the earth helped the woman. And the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the river which the dragon cast out of his mouth." (Revelation 12:16).

The very next verse tells us of the dragon then turning his attention to "the rest of the woman's seed, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ".

@Christian Gedge I placed a question mark behind two statements because I notice the possibility but I'm not turning it into a doctrine.
 
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RandyPNW

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There are quite a few adopting middle positions. 'Hope for you yet.

I held to the "gap in the middle of the 70th Week" theory too. I eventually had to give it up because a non-contiguous series of weeks with any gap at all does not appear to be rational enough. I discovered that the Church Fathers felt the same way, and saw the entire prophecy as fulfilled in the death of Christ and in the fall of Jerusalem following. And that's precisely how I now interpret the Olivet Discourse, as a focus more on Jesus' earthly ministry with the 2nd Coming being more in the backdrop.
 
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Christian Gedge

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I placed a question mark behind two statements because I notice the possibility but I'm not turning it into a doctrine.

Only the brave try to interpret Revelation 12. I haven't seen anyone connecting the swallowing of Dathan and Abiram with that of Satan's river? As for the 1260 days in Rev 12, I think it harks back to Daniel 7 rather than Daniel 9. But I'm not turning it into a doctrine either.
 
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Douggg

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How can you not connect the 1260 days in Revelation 12 to the 1260 days of the two witnesses in Revelation 11, the previous chapter ?
 
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Only the brave try to interpret Revelation 12.

Revelation 12 is no more complicated than understanding Christ's ascension to His Father's throne, and the persecution of the early church as detailed in the book of Acts, starting on the very day of Stephen's martyrdom.

This persecution was instigated by a newly-released Satan against the early church, which an "exceedingly mad" Saul / Paul led against the believers by the authorization of the high priesthood; a "flood" of persecution which was temporarily "swallowed up" by Paul's Damascus Road conversion. Paul's conversion infuriated the Dragon, since he had been the means by which many believers were imprisoned, put to death, and compelled to blaspheme, being persecuted even unto strange cities.
 
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Ed Parenteau

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OK, what do you think the abomination of desolation was or will be? Keep in mind though that Jesus was talking to the disciples and referring to the temple they were looking at when He said in Matthew 24 " 15So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.…
Or maybe I'm just not understanding what you're trying to say in the first place.
 
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Timtofly

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So you only give a 3 year ministry? Where do you place the other 4 years?
 
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Timtofly

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You have the flood before 70AD?

"shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."
 
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grafted branch

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I noticed that you have John the Baptist being put in prison in AD30 and the cross at AD33. In Luke 3:1-3 it mentions in the 15th year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar the word of God came to John the Baptist.

I personally see multiple similarities between John the Baptist and the 2 witnesses. Do you think it’s possible that John the Baptist preached for a literal 1,260 days before being put in prison?
 
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Christian Gedge

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So you only give a 3 year ministry? Where do you place the other 4 years?
AD30 to AD34 - the ministry of the apostles to Judea and Samaria as Jesus commanded. Then the gospel was sent to the Gentiles. The 70 weeks determined for Israel was over.
 
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