Is a Born Again Christian a "sinner"?

Unnamed Guy · Apr 12, 2019

Sin, singular, is the absence of spirit. Adam had a spirit but it died and so he was unable to bequeath a spirit to his offspring. That is why everybody is born in sin, not because Mommy and Daddy did the big nasty. That is why a savior had to die in our place and make it possible to create a new spirit for us.

Sins, plural, are mistakes, such as throwing a dart and missing the bullseye. Christians are baptised into Christ's death, and dead bodies don't commit sins, so sins are not an issue for Christians. There is no more forgiveness. Either you believe in Jesus and are saved or you don't believe and are lost.

It is not reliable to let people tell you what the bible says. Many people will make up stuff because they don't know what it says, and many will make up stuff because they wish it would not say what it says. You just have to read it for yourself. Read a chapter of Proverbs every day. Proverbs has 31 chapters so you can keep your place by just looking at a calendar. There is no religion or nothing in Proverbs and you don't have to believe anything. Just read to find wisdom. When you are comfortable with that, then read the bible from Romans to 2 Thessalonians over and over until you start to remember what it says. That is the part that applies to Christians. Here is a book to help you to understand the bible. It's a free download and you can get a hard copy at any bible book store.
www.philologos.org/__eb-htetb/ "How To Enjoy The Bible"

SaintCody777 · Apr 12, 2019

As a Christian, it makes absolutely no sense to deliberately dwell and enjoy the very sins that Jesus died to save you from (Romans 6).

ViaCrucis · Apr 12, 2019

Jonaitis said:
Like what?

Without the searing concience that comes from recognizing that we are sinners, how can we repent, and without repentance, how can we have faith in the saving power of the Gospel for sinners?

To deny we are sinners is to deny our need for God's grace, it denies the Gospel and our need for forgiveness. As long as we dwell with this "body of death" as St. Paul calls it, then we are sinners and in need of God's mercy.

My hope in Christ is not something once, sometime early in life; it is my ever-present hope. We are saved through faith, that is present tense, we are being saved as Scripture says. Our salvation is past, present, and future tense. We have been saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved.

We were saved, when Christ our Lord suffered, died, and rose again two thousand years ago.
We are being saved by the gracious acting of God upon us, through faith, working through the Means of Grace.
We will be saved, on the Last Day, at Christ's coming when the dead are raised and this mortal puts on immortality and this corruptible puts on incorruption.

This life of faith in which we now dwell is God's continuing gift to us. We are sinners, forgiven and reconciled to God, granted faith to our hearts by the Holy Spirit, receiving the gifts of God.

If we abandon this faith, if we shipwreck this faith, then we squander the gifts of God. Therefore pray hard, for you are very much a sinner.

-CryptoLutheran

Ttalkkugjil · Apr 12, 2019

We Christians are both sinners (we have all broken the Law) and saints (we have all been saved by the Gospel). Thanks be to God for his mercy and grace.

devin553344 · Apr 12, 2019

Jonathan Mathews said:
I go to a Church where we regularly kneel and confess our sins and refer to ourselves as "sinners". Since I am Born of God, this bothers me somewhat. I think to myself, "I am not a sinner, I am a saint". But I know that sometimes I still sin.

These verses come to mind on Christians and sinning:

1 John 3:9 "Whoever is born of God does not [continue to] sin"
Ecclesiastes 7:20 "Indeed, there is no one on earth who is righteous, no one who does what is right and never sins"
1 John 1:8 "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us"
Ephesians 2:1-2 "As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient"

In the end, I am ok calling myself a sinner OR a saint. By "Sinner" I mean that I have sin in my flesh and that I don't expect I will do right continually and never sin. But by "Saint" I mean that I no longer make it a practice of sinning and I am led by the Spirit of God and not the Prince of the Power of the Air any longer.

But what do you think? Should we as Born Again Christians call ourselves "Sinners" or "Saints"?

Luke 18:9-14 gives us an example of what we are, we are sinners not saints.

Calvin_1985 · Apr 12, 2019

Jonathan Mathews said:
I go to a Church where we regularly kneel and confess our sins and refer to ourselves as "sinners". Since I am Born of God, this bothers me somewhat. I think to myself, "I am not a sinner, I am a saint". But I know that sometimes I still sin.

These verses come to mind on Christians and sinning:

1 John 3:9 "Whoever is born of God does not [continue to] sin"
Ecclesiastes 7:20 "Indeed, there is no one on earth who is righteous, no one who does what is right and never sins"
1 John 1:8 "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us"
Ephesians 2:1-2 "As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient"

In the end, I am ok calling myself a sinner OR a saint. By "Sinner" I mean that I have sin in my flesh and that I don't expect I will do right continually and never sin. But by "Saint" I mean that I no longer make it a practice of sinning and I am led by the Spirit of God and not the Prince of the Power of the Air any longer.

But what do you think? Should we as Born Again Christians call ourselves "Sinners" or "Saints"?

Forget about asking these questions on this forum and go to Jesus himself. You are putting yourself into bondage and spiritual anguish in trying to figure this out. Just go to The words of Jesus, eat of them, and let him show you what you are. Eat of His Flesh and drink if His blood and walk in the Freedom he has given you. He has given you Liberty to no longer worry about whether you are a "sinner" or a "saint", just be a child and follow Him.

Kaon · Apr 12, 2019

Jonathan Mathews said:
I go to a Church where we regularly kneel and confess our sins and refer to ourselves as "sinners". Since I am Born of God, this bothers me somewhat. I think to myself, "I am not a sinner, I am a saint". But I know that sometimes I still sin.

These verses come to mind on Christians and sinning:

1 John 3:9 "Whoever is born of God does not [continue to] sin"
Ecclesiastes 7:20 "Indeed, there is no one on earth who is righteous, no one who does what is right and never sins"
1 John 1:8 "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us"
Ephesians 2:1-2 "As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient"

In the end, I am ok calling myself a sinner OR a saint. By "Sinner" I mean that I have sin in my flesh and that I don't expect I will do right continually and never sin. But by "Saint" I mean that I no longer make it a practice of sinning and I am led by the Spirit of God and not the Prince of the Power of the Air any longer.

But what do you think? Should we as Born Again Christians call ourselves "Sinners" or "Saints"?

The Church does not teach sanctification anymore much, but one "born again" will still fall at a decreasing rate. In other words, near the age of spiritual maturity, sanctification (enriched and driven by faith in the Most High God, The Word of God Himself, and obedience to their commandments) will "cleanse" or "purify" someone significantly.

When the bible speaks of righteous men, these are sanctified men who have been tried and purified by trials and tribulation (i.e. spiritual experience). Whoever is truly born again cannot be "unborn", and the Father ill convict and drive that one to be the son/daughter that He wants to fashion. This may happen in a month, or at the end of a lifetime. Sanctification/purification/making one white as snow/refining one as fine gold is a process.

ripple the car · Apr 13, 2019

Being realistic about how prone we are to stumble is a good thing. It is humbling, and realistic.

It is good to strive to become more holy, but that striving, with God's help, is also a daily struggle and journey against the flesh, weakness, selfishness, foolishness, pride, and rebellion.

And yet, God calls us to become great Saints. It is a becoming. We are not there yet, but we can be. This is why the Church in Her wisdom declares a man or woman a Saint after they have left this world.

Being hopeful is good! And so is being honest.

timewerx · Apr 13, 2019

Jonathan Mathews said:
But what do you think? Should we as Born Again Christians call ourselves "Sinners" or "Saints"?

Neither, none. Noone seems to be certain about it.

Don't go further than the truth.... If you are uncertain, then you are uncertain which is the truth, no need to say "I'm a sinner" nor "I'm a saint" if you are unsure which one you are.

Don't worry about it, much simpler eh?

These declarations are from the heart. Those people we read in the Bible admitting being a sinner did so without the knowledge of the New Testament that we now have...

To them, the words came from the heart..... But for us, it's mostly religious ritual, dogmas. We lost it. We became like the Pharisees. If Jesus would come in our midst today, only very few will recognize Him. the rest would nail Him again to the cross.

If you get my point, then you know what to do.

SkyWriting · Apr 13, 2019

FIRESTORM314 said:
I am a child of God !

The nice thing about the NT is that it is very positive. Why remind yourself of what you used to be?
Keep affirming those negtive statements and you'll begin to feel like a sinner & act like a sinner.

People are born into sin, just as fish are born into water.
You can long for the day you will be dry, but not in this life.

Understanding that you have been spiritually reborn gives you the freedom to make good choices. But being a sinner it's important to know that instead, you will make selfish choices and assume that the end justifies the means. You will often forget what God teaches you through the Holy Spirit, which is just not natural.

Philippians 2:4
Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.

Luke 6:35
But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil.

Philippians 2:3
Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves.

1 Peter 3:8
Finally, all of you, have unity of mind, sympathy, brotherly love, a tender heart, and a humble mind.

FIRESTORM314 · Apr 13, 2019

SkyWriting said:
You will often forget what God teaches you through the Holy Spirit, which is just not natural.

TRUE

I think some balance is required here...

These were some of that last words of Peter

2 Peter 1:12
So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are firmly established in the truth you now have.
13 I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body,
14 because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me.

What did he remind them of? - was it their sin?
No - he told them what to aim for

His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.
4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge;
6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness;
7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love.
8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

aiki · Apr 13, 2019

Jonathan Mathews said:
But what do you think? Should we as Born Again Christians call ourselves "Sinners" or "Saints"?

"The me I see is the me I'll be."

2 Corinthians 5:17
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

aiki · Apr 13, 2019

Jonathan Mathews said:
It's a good question.... Before Creation, God was still Holy. He was seperated from nothing. He was everwhere and everything, just as He will be at the End..... "That God may

Here's something to ponder: Time, space, matter and energy only came into being at Creation (or, the Big Bang, if you like). Prior to the moment of Creation, then, there were none of these things and so there was no "everything" or "everywhere" - terms which only apply to a material universe. There was only an immaterial, timeless Mind we call God, existing alone in a circumstance transcendent to the physical universe. Weird, eh? Sorta' bakes my noodle a bit!

devin553344 · Apr 13, 2019

aiki said:
Here's something to ponder: Time, space, matter and energy only came into being at Creation (or, the Big Bang, if you like). Prior to the moment of Creation, then, there were none of these things and so there was no "everything" or "everywhere" - terms which only apply to a material universe. There was only an immaterial, timeless Mind we call God, existing alone in a circumstance transcendent to the physical universe. Weird, eh? Sorta' bakes my noodle a bit!

How does that make one a sinner? In comparison to the creator?

aiki · Apr 13, 2019

??? My "point to ponder" wasn't to the OP's question about identity but to the remark he made in the quotation from him that I posted about God's existence prior to Creation. What I wrote was intended only as an interesting aside. My answer to the OP itself is a couple of posts back in this thread.

GraceBro · Apr 13, 2019

Jonathan Mathews said:
I think to myself, "I am not a sinner, I am a saint". But I know that sometimes I still sin.

You are correct here. You are a saint. While you still sin, that is not your identity. As expressed by Paul in many of his letters, he refers to the Christians he wrote to as Saints. The sin issue is over between man and God. He is no longer counting our sins against us. When you sin, you thank Him for the forgiveness you have as an inheritance of your faith in Jesus and then boldly approach God to find out why you weren't trusting Him when you sinned.

PoppyB · Apr 13, 2019

Jonathan Mathews said:
I go to a Church where we regularly kneel and confess our sins and refer to ourselves as "sinners". Since I am Born of God, this bothers me somewhat. I think to myself, "I am not a sinner, I am a saint". But I know that sometimes I still sin.

These verses come to mind on Christians and sinning:

1 John 3:9 "Whoever is born of God does not [continue to] sin"
Ecclesiastes 7:20 "Indeed, there is no one on earth who is righteous, no one who does what is right and never sins"
1 John 1:8 "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us"
Ephesians 2:1-2 "As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient"

In the end, I am ok calling myself a sinner OR a saint. By "Sinner" I mean that I have sin in my flesh and that I don't expect I will do right continually and never sin. But by "Saint" I mean that I no longer make it a practice of sinning and I am led by the Spirit of God and not the Prince of the Power of the Air any longer.

But what do you think? Should we as Born Again Christians call ourselves "Sinners" or "Saints"?

The same thing has bothered me too as I believe that in God's eyes we are without sin and so we are saints. He can't accept sin but once we have come to accept Jesus we are washed in the blood of the Lamb and because our sin is washed away we are free to approach God as one of his saints or children.

Is a Born Again Christian a "sinner"?

Is a Born Again Christian a still a "sinner"? Are they a "saint"?.... Both? or Neither?

Sinner

Saint

BOTH

NEITHER

Active Member

The young, curious Berean

Confessional Lutheran

Social Pastor

I believe in the Resurrection

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Newbie

the village i--o--t--

The Librarian

Well-Known Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

I believe in the Resurrection

Regular Member

Eternally Forgiven, Alive, and Secure.

Active Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency