Iran's 'Final Response' to the US on Al-Quds Day October 12, 2007
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Micah68
Discerning
Carey, How am I not being 'realistic about Islam'? I am sorry but your own perceptions/understanding of Islam has been shaped by those who only wish to pass judgement and vilify. By your indoctrination you have passed judgment when all we have been commanded to do is love one another. How are YOU revealing Christ's love? How are you revealing this love and making this love wanted? What are you doing/revealing to make people want what you have?
When I was talking about the Amazon I was not talking about what their religion or ideology was, I was talking of the spirit with which these missionaries went/go, trusting in God the whole way to help them reveal God's love for all through their actions and respect.
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Carey, How am I not being 'realistic about Islam'? I am sorry but your own perceptions/understanding of Islam has been shaped by those who only wish to pass judgement and vilify. By your indoctrination you have passed judgment when all we have been commanded to do is love one another. How are YOU revealing Christ's love? How are you revealing this love and making this love wanted? What are you doing/revealing to make people want what you have?
When I was talking about the Amazon I was not talking about what their religion or ideology was, I was talking of the spirit with which these missionaries went/go, trusting in God the whole way to help them reveal God's love for all through their actions and respect.
I do not pass judgement on muslims I pass judgement on Islam and the Quran
I do not pass judgement on Satanists , I pass judgemeny on Satanism and the Satanic Bible
and other occult writings.
Understand now??
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Can you show us in the Q'uran where it says these things?
Can you explain, how Judaism (and to a lesser extent, Christianity) had flourished under Musilm regime when Islam was sweeping over the Middle East and Europe? Can you explain, how Mohammed, the religion's most sacred prophet, commanded his followers to not kill any Jews under their control? In fact, he punished those who even hurt a Jew during that time period. Can you explain these things, with your "Islam wants to kill us allz!!1!!" interpretation of the religion itself?
Islam has a pretty good history concerning religious tolerance mate. Perhaps you should do your research on the matter.
Can you explain, how Judaism (and to a lesser extent, Christianity) had flourished under Musilm regime when Islam was sweeping over the Middle East and Europe? Can you explain, how Mohammed, the religion's most sacred prophet, commanded his followers to not kill any Jews under their control? In fact, he punished those who even hurt a Jew during that time period. Can you explain these things, with your "Islam wants to kill us allz!!1!!" interpretation of the religion itself?
Islam has a pretty good history concerning religious tolerance mate. Perhaps you should do your research on the matter.
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Servant222
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How about these verses from the Q'uran as a start:
Surah 5:72 and 73.
Surely, they have disbelieved who say: "Allâh is the Messiah ['Iesa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary)." But the Messiah ['Iesa (Jesus)] said: "O Children of Israel! Worship Allâh, my Lord and your Lord." Verily, whosoever sets up partners in worship with Allâh, then Allâh has forbidden Paradise for him, and the Fire will be his abode . And for the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong doers) there are no helpers.
Surah 5:51
O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliyâ' (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but Auliyâ' to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as Auliyâ', then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allâh guides not those people who are the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong doers and unjust).
Surah 9:5
Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islâmic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikûn (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush.
Surah 2:191, 193, 194
And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Harâm (the sanctuary at Makkah), unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.
193. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)
194. The sacred month is for the sacred month, and for the prohibited things, there is the Law of Equality (Qisâs). Then whoever transgresses the prohibition against you, you transgress likewise against him. And fear Allâh, and know that Allâh is with Al-Muttaqûn
Surah 9:5
Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islâmic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikûn (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and give Zakât, then leave their way free. Verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Surah 9:73
O Prophet (Muhammad )! Strive hard against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be harsh against them, their abode is Hell, - and worst indeed is that destination.
Surah 9:111
Verily, Allâh has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties; for the price that theirs shall be the Paradise. They fight in Allâh's Cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel) and the Qur'ân. And who is truer to his covenant than Allâh? Then rejoice in the bargain which you have concluded. That is the supreme success .
Surah 9:122, 123
And it is not (proper) for the believers to go out to fight (Jihâd) all together. Of every troop of them, a party only should go forth, that they (who are left behind) may get instructions in (Islâmic) religion, and that they may warn their people when they return to them, so that they may beware (of evil).
123. O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allâh is with those who are the Al-Muttaqûn.
Surah 47:4
So, when you meet (in fight Jihâd in Allâh's Cause), those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives). Thereafter (is the time) either for generosity (i.e. free them without ransom), or ransom (according to what benefits Islâm), until the war lays down its burden. Thus [you are ordered by Allâh to continue in carrying out Jihâd against the disbelievers till they embrace Islâm (i.e. are saved from the punishment in the Hell-fire) or at least come under your protection], but if it had been Allâh's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight), in order to test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allâh, He will never let their deeds be lost,
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Servant222
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So you're admitting that these passages encourage violence and hatred, but the justification is that the Old Testament does the same?
What about the New Testament and Jesus- what do they teach?
Matthew 22 sums it up pretty well:
37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[c] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
What about the New Testament and Jesus- what do they teach?
Matthew 22 sums it up pretty well:
37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[c] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
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Micah68
Discerning
How typical a response. I will tell you this, I am not an Islamic scholar and I kind of doubt you are either. I do know and have many Muslim friends, in fact my best friend, my husband is a Muslim, and he too follows Christ's command to 'Love your God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself' Yes, surprise, he follows Christ's teachings as do my other Muslim friends. We have many wonderful conversations about religion, especially how whacked out it has gotten by all the hate, incitement and finger pointing. Jesus did NOT teach this!!! Who was it Jesus went out amongst to teach of God's great love for all? This judgemental behavior does Nothing to build the Kingdom of God. My point about the OT text, as any Bible Scholar will tell you, is that one must take into consideration the time period and audience it was written.
Yes ABSOLUTELY;
37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[c] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
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The reason Christianity and Judaism were not wiped out is because God protected them
Islam does not want to kill us all it wants to convert us all. Because Satan who is actually gave the quran to Muhammad wants our souls to die in the second death.
I think you need to do some research young one.
Here is what the quran says in just a few places.
If you really want to know how evil the quran and Islam is read the whole thing.
I will have to delete some of the arabic because the sire recognizes the arabic as images and I can only have 5 per post.
9:29Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. Qatiloo allatheena layu/minoona biAllahi wala bialyawmial-akhiri wala yuharrimoona ma harramaAllahu warasooluhu wala yadeenoona deena alhaqqimina allatheena ootoo alkitaba hattayuAAtoo aljizyata AAan yadin wahum saghiroona
9:30The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! Waqalati alyahoodu AAuzayrun ibnu Allahiwaqalati alnnasara almaseehuibnu Allahi thalika qawluhum bi-afwahihim yudahi-oonaqawla allatheena kafaroo min qablu qatalahumu Allahuanna yu/fakoona
9:14Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers, Qatiloohum yuAAaththibhumu Allahubi-aydeekum wayukhzihim wayansurkum AAalayhim wayashfi sudooraqawmin mu/mineena 9:15And still the indignation of their hearts. For Allah will turn (in mercy) to whom He will; and Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise. Wayuthhib ghaythaquloobihim wayatoobu Allahu AAala man yashaowaAllahu AAaleemun hakeemun
Pope benedict recently visited a Mosque inTurkey
hoping to help make peace.
Here is what the quran says about that.
9:17It is not for such as join gods with Allah, to visit or maintain the mosques of Allah while they witness against their own souls to infidelity. The works of such bear no fruit: In Fire shall they dwell. Ma kana lilmushrikeena anyaAAmuroo masajida Allahi shahideena AAalaanfusihim bialkufri ola-ika habitataAAmaluhum wafee alnnari hum khalidoona
9:73O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed. Ya ayyuha alnnabiyyu jahidialkuffara waalmunafiqeena waoghluthAAalayhim wama/wahum jahannamu wabi/sa almaseeru
9:123O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him. Ya ayyuha allatheena amanooqatiloo allatheena yaloonakum mina alkuffariwalyajidoo feekum ghilthatan waiAAlamoo annaAllaha maAAa almuttaqeena
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Right, I've read the Quran, and I've also read the debates between many Muslims in interpreting those verses, and many others. Doesn't the Old Testament say things along those same lines? Stoning adulterers and the like?
And as far as your other point, about Islam wanting to convert all non-believers...isn't that the same as what Christians want to do? At least some of them? Where is the difference?
My point is that looking at the history of Islam, and what Mohammed said, it's unfair to call it evil or anything of the sort. It's much the same as the Old Testament in the Bible. There is a continuous discussion about what those versus mean, in the context, when couples with Mohammed's clear instruction about treating Jews with utmost respect, and not harming them.
It's simply academically lazy to paint Islam as a religion of hate and violence, when really, the same could be said for Christianity, based off of history (and practice), and some verses found in the Old Testament.
And as far as your other point, about Islam wanting to convert all non-believers...isn't that the same as what Christians want to do? At least some of them? Where is the difference?
My point is that looking at the history of Islam, and what Mohammed said, it's unfair to call it evil or anything of the sort. It's much the same as the Old Testament in the Bible. There is a continuous discussion about what those versus mean, in the context, when couples with Mohammed's clear instruction about treating Jews with utmost respect, and not harming them.
It's simply academically lazy to paint Islam as a religion of hate and violence, when really, the same could be said for Christianity, based off of history (and practice), and some verses found in the Old Testament.
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The Old testament never told the Israelites to seek out there enemies and force their relogion except in their own land God gave them
Islam says the whole world is Islams.
The Christians never attacked anyone. Now if you are referring to the crusades you are not talking about Chistians you are talking about Catholics who call themselves Christians who did the crusades.
Many christians seperate catholocism from Christianity.
Most non believers and people from other religions put the passivist Christians in the same catagory with Catholicism and the crusades.
( note anyone saying this is flaming is a liar )
The crusaders where often criminal militants who became Catholic so they could continue in their profession and have it financed by the Vatican.
( note this is historical fact and even the Vatican will admit the criminals backgrounds )
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I wouldn't be going around making such a big deal of her age . . . .
Her posts have shown much greater wisdom in years than your posts have . . . .
.
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And that fact is apparently being totally ignored by those who were predicting all sorts of calamities. . . .Of course, and the end of the world still hasn't come . . . .
.
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If you say so 2 Timothy 2 : 23Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. 24And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. 25Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.
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