Investigative Judgment

[statrei]

Hi Stormyone



I was not aware that early SDA's were following the 6 days of work rule and 1 of rest, When did that change?? I have seen on Sabbath threads where SDA's are asked why they do not work 6 days and the question usually goes unanswered,

It changed with the economy. They lived in an essentially agrarian society.

 

[SassySDA]

That was not my intent, and I am not sure I could put words in your mouth.....lol Let me rephrase... Sassy I would hope that if confronted with a decision at that time, you follow the Lord's leading.... That you would do His will and not your will...(how's that?)

Stormy, you know me, at least a little bit by now. If I tell you that I will NOT hide away in my home and worship on the sabbath, that I will be more like Daniel and pray OPENLY, IN FRONT OF MY WINDOWS, so to speak...I think that pretty much says what you are asking...that I am MORE than willing to follow where the Lord leads me and do as He asks me to do...yes, even if He tells me to sit down and shut up, to run up into the mountains and hide, I will do as He says.

I'm just saying that that should have been obvious by my original statement. If I'm willing to put it out there, for the whole world to see that I belong to Jesus and I will not back down from worshipping Him, or hide my love for Him, then I would think it would have been obvious that I will do as He tells me, no matter what it is.

 

[SpeakNow]

Amen Sassy, and turbulent times are ahead, but at least we aren't going it alone. He will always be there with us.

 

[jonno]

It would float in a flooding city, however.

Another point most who quote EGW on this overlook is that she understood that Christ would have come long before we got to 2000. In 1856 she was told by an angel that Christ would return within a generation or so. I put that information in the same category as Christ's statement to His disciples that He would return within a generation. Each time humans drop the ball new contingency plans have to be put into effect. I don't even think we can extend those predictions beyond their "natural" lives.

Hello Stormyone
I spent quite some time reading thru all the postings in this thread and was quite educated. My beliefs were strengthened in some regards and views confirmed somewhat.
That endtimes will be turbulent and distressing is biblically a forgone conclusion. What is not concluded is the finer details. This all christians conclude based on their own interpretaions of scripture and heavily influenced by denominational teachings. This is quite evident in this forum from both liberal and conservative participants.

 

[Believer-in-Christ]

We must be aware of the Deceiver that is Satan. He will make counterfiets in these end times and some will be fooled into following him instead of the Christ.

 

[statrei]

That endtimes will be turbulent and distressing is biblically a forgone conclusion.

Maybe biblically, but not in God's mind. If it were a foregone conclusion we would not be still waiting for it. God does not need thousands of years to make up His mind about a foregone conclusion. Even as kids we know that if some says he is going to punch you lights out if he hesitates he is giving you time to get away so that he won't have to punch your lights out. You don't stand up there and say, "Well, it's a foregone conclusion, because he already said it." It is time to



THIMK!

 

[statrei]

We must be aware of the Deceiver that is Satan. He will make counterfiets in these end times and some will be fooled into following him instead of the Christ.

The biggest ongoing deception is the church's insistence that the devil could not have possibly deceived them. They have full confidence in their intelligence.

 

[deu58]

Hi all

The biggest ongoing deception is the church's insistence that the devil could not have possibly deceived them. They have full confidence in their intelligence.

This is already explained to us through the end time prophecies that Satan will decieve the church which leads to another question that really is not Adventist specific but affects us all as a body of believers,

We have a home church that we have started at home and I have noticed many other believers from other denominations have left their churches and started home churches,

At first I thought this was just a local thing in the philippines because of rampant corruption in the churches there,

But I have since found out that this is happening everywhere and people are not only leaving their churches but are taking their children out of schools and doing home schooling,

I am sure that all here are familiar with the verse in Revelation that says come out of her my people,

Is it possible we may further into the tribulation than most people realize??

I have been reluctant to say with confidence that some of the Rev judgments may have already started because it seems to me that there would be a greater destruction than we have yet witnessed,

But I have to admit that there does seem to be ample evidence that at least the first 3 seal judgments have begun or we may even be well into them,

What are your thoughts as Adventists concerning these things, Think and look around at at what is happening for a few minutes before making a hasty reply,

Hey stormy, thank you for the nice comment in your post and it has been nice talking to you to, I meant to reply to that earlier but it slipped my mind at the time

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[StormyOne]

Deu,
It is my belief that home churches are the wave of the immediate future especially if we believe that christians will be hassled for their beliefs.... Big, organized churches are targets, and magnets for persecution....

Look at it this way, if you are an army going to fight are you going to concentrate all of your resources in the same place, put spotlights on it so everyone knows where your troops and their supplies are? No, you are going to spread it out, so that the enemy isn't sure where you are...

The time will come when christians may have to leave that big comfy church and meet in a house church..... that is what I have concluded based on my studies....

 

[statrei]

Deu,
It is my belief that home churches are the wave of the immediate future especially if we believe that christians will be hassled for their beliefs.... Big, organized churches are targets, and magnets for persecution....

Look at it this way, if you are an army going to fight are you going to concentrate all of your resources in the same place, put spotlights on it so everyone knows where your troops and their supplies are?

And put big crosses on most of them and put all their addresses on the internet.

 

[StormyOne]

Hello Stormyone
I spent quite some time reading thru all the postings in this thread and was quite educated. My beliefs were strengthened in some regards and views confirmed somewhat.
That endtimes will be turbulent and distressing is biblically a forgone conclusion. What is not concluded is the finer details. This all christians conclude based on their own interpretaions of scripture and heavily influenced by denominational teachings. This is quite evident in this forum from both liberal and conservative participants.
What is of concern is:
When I indicated an inaccuracy in an EGW prophecy and advised a caution in dogmatism,I was reported and in spite of a clarification posted by myself. the posting was deleted. All response you get is a "we'll see".

Jonno,
I don't know what to say about that... I don't run this place and I am still learning the rules.... now you are more than welcome to visit a place I belong to, I will send you the address via PM. There you can fellowship, study, and hash out whatever is on your mind... just know there are no sacred cows there......

 

[Cliff2]

Hi all

Now the Holy Spirit dwells within us and empowers us. Continually committed to Jesus as our Saviour and Lord, we are set free from the burden of our past deeds. No longer do we live in the darkness, fear of evil powers, ignorance, and meaninglessness of our former way of life. In this new freedom in Jesus,

This was just posted in another thread as a new fundamental belief bringing the total to 28 now, I cut out this part because it looked to me as if the Adventist church may be moving away from the original teaching of the Investigative Judgment,

I know the traditionalists still hold to the original teaching but I am curious of what the the moderate/liberal view is towards the Investigative Judment

yours in Christ
deu 58

This #28 has nothing to do with the Investigative Judgement at all.

Nothing has changed as far as that is concerned.

It can be found here.

"24. Christ's Ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary:
There is a sanctuary in heaven, the true tabernacle which the Lord set up and not man. In it Christ ministers on our behalf, making available to believers the benefits of His atoning sacrifice offered once for all on the cross. He was inaugurated as our great High Priest and began His intercessory ministry at the time of His ascension. In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry. It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin, typified by the cleansing of the ancient Hebrew sanctuary on the Day of Atonement. In that typical service the sanctuary was cleansed with the blood of animal sacrifices, but the heavenly things are purified with the perfect sacrifice of the blood of Jesus. The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom. The completion of this ministry of Christ will mark the close of human probation before the Second Advent. (Heb. 8:1-5; 4:14-16; 9:11-28; 10:19-22; 1:3; 2:16, 17; Dan. 7:9-27; 8:13, 14; 9:24-27; Num. 14:34; Eze. 4:6; Lev. 16; Rev. 14:6, 7; 20:12; 14:12; 22:12.)"

The IJ is not based on anything EGW says or what anyone else may say. As you can see it is from the Bible.

Another link about the IJ

 

[Olikamay]

Amen and Amen Cliff.

 

[honorthesabbath]

Hi Stormyone



I was not aware that early SDA's were following the 6 days of work rule and 1 of rest, When did that change?? I have seen on Sabbath threads where SDA's are asked why they do not work 6 days and the question usually goes unanswered,

I am confused by this post. Where did you get the idea that SDA's DIDN'T work six days? Are you referring to those who own businesses only? Are you saying that early Adventists (whom the majority were farmers) only worked FIVE days a week?? How silly. I am a SDA business owner and even though I may not open the business on the sunday, I sure am busy WORKING with other projects. So I guess I'm going to have to ask you to be more specific with what you meant by not working 6 days and resting the 7th. And define "work" in your mind too.
Thank you

 

[Cliff2]

Once a person does away with the IJ and the Sanctuary then it all begins to fall apart.

We see it time after time, they go and then the Sabbath goes very soon as well.

I would not want any SDA to think that we have been fooled into believing that there is no IJ.

 

[StormyOne]

Once a person does away with the IJ and the Sanctuary then it all begins to fall apart.

We see it time after time, they go and then the Sabbath goes very soon as well.

I would not want any SDA to think that we have been fooled into believing that there is no IJ.

Not necessarily.... however I understand what you are saying.... by the way Cliff... we cannot prove that the IJ is occurring or ever did..... in my opinion the Sabbath has never hinged on belief in the IJ.... but that's me....

 

[jonno]

Once a person does away with the IJ and the Sanctuary then it all begins to fall apart.

We see it time after time, they go and then the Sabbath goes very soon as well.

I would not want any SDA to think that we have been fooled into believing that there is no IJ.

Hello Cliff2
If a doctrine falls apart biblically then it deserves to.
And one should not hold on to a doctrine falling apart just so that other doctrines could be sustained

 

[Cliff2]

It can be found here.

"24. Christ's Ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary:
There is a sanctuary in heaven, the true tabernacle which the Lord set up and not man. In it Christ ministers on our behalf, making available to believers the benefits of His atoning sacrifice offered once for all on the cross. He was inaugurated as our great High Priest and began His intercessory ministry at the time of His ascension. In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry. It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin, typified by the cleansing of the ancient Hebrew sanctuary on the Day of Atonement. In that typical service the sanctuary was cleansed with the blood of animal sacrifices, but the heavenly things are purified with the perfect sacrifice of the blood of Jesus. The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom. The completion of this ministry of Christ will mark the close of human probation before the Second Advent. (Heb. 8:1-5; 4:14-16; 9:11-28; 10:19-22; 1:3; 2:16, 17; Dan. 7:9-27; 8:13, 14; 9:24-27; Num. 14:34; Eze. 4:6; Lev. 16; Rev. 14:6, 7; 20:12; 14:12; 22:12.)"

The IJ is not based on anything EGW says or what anyone else may say. As you can see it is from the Bible.

Another link about the IJ

If one will look at the links to the IJ that I have provided and study them it is easy to see that the IJ can be totally supported by the Bible and the Bible alone.

Hello Cliff2
If a doctrine falls apart biblically then it deserves to.
And one should not hold on to a doctrine falling apart just so that other doctrines could be sustained (jonno)

I agree witb what you are saying here all the way. Once a doctrine does not stand up to the Bible then do away with it. But on the other hand if it does stand up to Biblical investigation then support it 100 percent.

I believe from the links I have shown that the IJ does stand up to what is in God's Word the Bible.

 

[Cliff2]

Not necessarily.... however I understand what you are saying.... by the way Cliff... we cannot prove that the IJ is occurring or ever did..... in my opinion the Sabbath has never hinged on belief in the IJ.... but that's me....(StormyOne)

Look at the links I have provided and please explain why the IJ is wrong in your opinion?

You are correct in saying that the Sabbath has nothing to do with the IJ. As far as I am concerned that has never been an issue.

 

[StormyOne]

Look at the links I have provided and please explain why the IJ is wrong in your opinion?

You are correct in saying that the Sabbath has nothing to do with the IJ. As far as I am concerned that has never been an issue.

I am reposting my issues with this doctrine.....

Okay here is my problem. If we as sda's believe in the Investigative Judgement, then judgement is happening as we speak, when Christ returns there is no judgement bar that we must stand before because the "judgement" has already happened. I mean how is it that we will face judgement (in the end) yet judgement be happening now? He is coming back to give out rewards or am I mistaken?

Two, when God forgives us and casts our sins into the depths of the sea, then there is nothing recorded on the heavenly DVDs regarding the "sins" we have committed because they have been erased. Thus, those sins aren't held against us because they have ceased to exist. So why would a "heavenly sanctuary" need cleasing if those sins have ceased to exist?

Three, if Christ's righteousness has taken the place of our righteousness, the deeds of Christians are covered by the righteous deeds of Christ or are they? In effect Christ would be looking at His own work, if a person is in Christ and being transformed by His Spirit correct?

So then there is nothing in the life of the believer that needs to be reviewed.... Sins have been forgiven and forgotten... Righteousness is covered by the righteousness of Christ... so what is being investigated?