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Introduction (And more...)

DharmaBum84

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Hello to all!

I joined this board for two reasons, one professional, one personal. I'll begin with the former...

I am a Literature graduate student, looking to expand my knowledge on my secondary interests. Unfortunately, tenure-track positions for Literature PhDs are declining each year, and I've been advised by many of my professors to cultivate secondary interests in order to make myself more employable. One of these interests include religion. In my undergrad, I took quite a few classes in religion, graduating with almost enough credits in the subject to qualify for a second major (unfortunately, the university that I attended did not offer a major or minor in the subject). I am sincerely hoping that, despite being a Buddhist, the administration here might grant me limited access to some of the "Christian-only" forums for educational purposes. I do not, in any way, wish to disrupt the board, or debate the merits of Christianity, but I would like the input of Christians on certain topic matters. If administration is open to this, I'll gladly discuss the matter via PM, and provide whatever details needed (my educational background, etc.) to prove that I am legitamately interested in this board for educational purposes. I am familiar with the Bible (I have read it several times), so I am not ignorant of the scripture; I simply want to gleam a better understanding of those who adhere to it.

Secondly, on a personal note, my boyfriend and I are discussing marriage. We don't have the money to pay for a wedding... but his wealthy, Christian (maternal) grandmother does. I don't want anything lavish, but a small, simple ceremony. My boyfriend believes she might be open to paying for the expenses, but neither of us are sure under what conditions. I'm sure she would like the wedding to be in a church, but neither of us are Christian, and we think that having our wedding in a church would not only be unsuitable for us, but inappropriate and offensive to our Christian friends and family members. We also, obviously, do not want to go through any "pre-marital couseling" conducted by the church. I'd prefer, of course, to be married by a Buddhist "chaplain" (my boyfriend, who is agnostic, has no problem with this), but we're willing to negotiate. We've brought up the idea of being married by a mayor or judge, only to his grandmother's displeasure, so we're now looking into finding a Universalist Unitarian minister to perform the service. We're unsure as to whether or not this with satisfy her, but we're hoping...

For the sake of details, we are not willing to budge on the following: (1) We refuse to be wed in a church, (2) we refuse to undergo any church-conducted pre-marital counseling, (3) we refuse to lie or deceive anyone in this process. I'd like to negotiate this all in a civil, reasonable manner that will leave everyone happy. My family is predominately Atheist, so a church wedding would be extemely uncomfortable for them, I'm sure. We are also trying to negotiate the issue of alcohol being served at our wedding, since my boyfriend's paternal extended family does not drink, and looks down upon it heavily (this is rooted in their Christian faith). My family, on the other hand, are avid (responsible) drinkers, as are my boyfriend, myself and our friends.

In short, it's going to be an interesting wedding to say the least. I would love for everyone to simply have a good time, and enjoy the eclectic nature of the gathering. Unfortunately, I think that we're going to have difficulties with both sides of the family, given that some of my family members are as ardently Atheist as his are Christian. My dad, for example, doesn't even like the idea of a Buddhist chaplain marrying us, and tends to voice his opinions LOUDLY about his disbelief in God. Though I consider my father one of my best friends (and enjoy our personal religious debates), I will not allow him to disrespect my boyfriend's family by voicing those opinions to them.

Anyway, any input as to how we should negotiate all this would be greatly appreciated.

On a final note, if anyone has any questions regarding my faith (I am a practicing Tibetan Buddhist), I welcome them, and will answer to the best of my abilities.
 
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DharmaBum84

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I instinctually felt that there was "something more" or "something else" to life. This led me to study various religions (first on my own, and later in college). Buddhism seemed most compatible with the morals and values that I had already established. I began meditating and attending Sunday services at a local Tibetan Temple and found myself finally at ease and with a sense of inner peace that I had never experienced.

I should note that my mom is not an Atheist, but an Agnostic. She encouraged me to always keep an open mind and find a the path that's right for me.
 
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Van

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Have a non-Christian licensed to wed perform the marriage in a pretty place like a park. Have the reception prior to the cutting of the cake alcohol free, then make the announcement that those uncomfortable with alcohol are welcome to leave, it was good of you to come and honor our effort to accommodate the wishes of all.

As far as gleaming a better understanding of those who adhere to Christianity, you can post your questions on the "exploring christianity forum" and several professing Christians will attempt to enlighten you.

May God Bless
 
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DharmaBum84

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Thank you, Salida. I've been spending most of my time on CF digging through the content that is already here. I'm sure there are plenty of non-Christians that come here with similar questions; I see no need to rehash information that is already available. Once I narrow down some of my specific conerns and questions, I will prompty post them.
 
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DharmaBum84

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Have a non-Christian licensed to wed perform the marriage in a pretty place like a park. Have the reception prior to the cutting of the cake alcohol free, then make the announcement that those uncomfortable with alcohol are welcome to leave, it was good of you to come and honor our effort to accommodate the wishes of all.

As far as gleaming a better understanding of those who adhere to Christianity, you can post your questions on the "exploring christianity forum" and several professing Christians will attempt to enlighten you.

May God Bless

I've neglected to thank you for your advice. I'm not sure if the paternal side of my boyfriend's family intend to attend the wedding (they don't seem very approving of either one of us), so no decisions have been made. I will, however, bring this idea to his dad (who's quite a bit more liberal and tolerant) to see if this would encourage them to attend. We've also tossed around the idea of having "soft" alcohol (wine, beer and champagne) served with dinner and cake, and serving harder liquors later. I'm not sure how this will be negotiated with the venue we end up choosing for our reception, but I'm sure something can be arranged.

Now, if you have any advice on how to keep my dad from shooting off at the mouth... duct tape?
 
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DharmaBum84

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It's inherently Agnostic, for one. I wish to neither assert nor deny the existence of God. Also, if God does, in fact, exist, I would feel it rather presumptuous of me to try and ascertain His Will. The scripture provided by the Torah, the Christian New Testament and the Qu'ran are too problematic for me to accept as divinely inspired. The Four Noble Truths seem more rational to me.

Also, the Eightfold Path promotes moral and ethical standards that I agree with, and held myself to prior to my discovery of Buddhism.

I also enjoy the ritualistic aspects of Buddhism, and upon a (albeit brief) encounter with the Dalai Lama, I simply "knew" that he understood something I did not.
 
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aiki

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It's inherently Agnostic, for one. I wish to neither assert nor deny the existence of God.

Why is that? If God does exist, isn't it very important to know that He does?

Also, if God does, in fact, exist, I would feel it rather presumptuous of me to try and ascertain His Will.

Hmmm...But what if God has made His will plain? If He has expressed His will clearly to humanity, wouldn't it be absolutely vital to know what that will is?

The scripture provided by the Torah, the Christian New Testament and the Qu'ran are too problematic for me to accept as divinely inspired.

What does "too problematic" mean exactly? What are your specific issues with the Bible?

The Four Noble Truths seem more rational to me.

Let me see...You mean:

1. Life is suffering.
2. The origin of suffering is attachment.
3. The cessation of suffering is attainable.
4. There is a path to the end of suffering (See Eight-Fold Path). Right?

So, what about these points seem particularly rational to you? Why do you regard these "truths" as authoritative?

Also, the Eightfold Path promotes moral and ethical standards that I agree with, and held myself to prior to my discovery of Buddhism.

So, it was important to you that Buddhism fit your views on morality and ethics? What would you have done if it hadn't?

I also enjoy the ritualistic aspects of Buddhism, and upon a (albeit brief) encounter with the Dalai Lama, I simply "knew" that he understood something I did not.

What do you mean by "simply knew"? What do you think he understood that you did not?

Peace.
 
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DharmaBum84

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What is it about Jesus that you find hard to accept?

John
NZ

I accept Jesus as an historical figure and a great spiritual leader. I do not accept him as my Savior or the Son of God, because I simply do not believe that was either of these things.
 
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DharmaBum84

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Why is that? If God does exist, isn't it very important to know that He does?

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. I don't know if God does or does not exist.

Hmmm...But what if God has made His will plain? If He has expressed His will clearly to humanity, wouldn't it be absolutely vital to know what that will is?

As far as I know, God has not made His Will plain.

What does "too problematic" mean exactly? What are your specific issues with the Bible?

To list all the problematic elements of the Bible would take a great deal of time. I'm sure if you follow my current and future threads, you'll be able to ascertain a small number of the issues that I find problematic.

Let me see...You mean:

1. Life is suffering.
2. The origin of suffering is attachment.
3. The cessation of suffering is attainable.
4. There is a path to the end of suffering (See Eight-Fold Path). Right?

So, what about these points seem particularly rational to you? Why do you regard these "truths" as authoritative?

They're rational because my experiences in life have taught me that the cause of suffering is, in fact, "attachment" (this is more correctly translated as "clinging"). I have experienced through the practice of the Eightfold Path relief from this suffering. I consider nothing authoritative, nor do I think that Truth exists. "Capital T" Truth is a human construction.

So, it was important to you that Buddhism fit your views on morality and ethics? What would you have done if it hadn't?

Then I would've remained an Agnostic.

What do you mean by "simply knew"? What do you think he understood that you did not?

Something about life, the meaning of life... It was a visceral feeling. Inexplicable. It's much like you "knowing" that, through Christ, you will inherit the Kingdom of God.
 
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Johnnz

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Here you are out of the loop regarding the historicity of that event. The Jewish people had a strong belief in resurrection. That does not negate the pretty well established historical reliability of the New Testament record regarding the life, death, resurrection and the subsequent teachings that arose from those events.

John
NZ
 
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aiki

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I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. I don't know if God does or does not exist.

Is it not terribly important to find out one way or the other?

As far as I know, God has not made His Will plain.

You didn't answer my question: If God has expressed His will clearly to humanity, wouldn't it be absolutely vital to know what that will is?

They're rational because my experiences in life have taught me that the cause of suffering is, in fact, "attachment" (this is more correctly translated as "clinging").

So, what do you do if another's experience doesn't bear out what you regard as true in regards to suffering? Who is right? What if suffering isn't a negative in the view of another, but a positive?

I consider nothing authoritative, nor do I think that Truth exists. "Capital T" Truth is a human construction.

If nothing is authoritative, does that include your statement here?

Is it true that Truth does not exist? If it is, then Truth does exist and your statement is false. And if you are right that Truth does not exist, this must necessarily include your own statement that it does not, which would make your statement a lie. Either way, the statement "Truth does not exist" is self-refuting.

Something about life, the meaning of life... It was a visceral feeling. Inexplicable. It's much like you "knowing" that, through Christ, you will inherit the Kingdom of God.

My knowing is not visceral, but factual. The Bible tells me that through Christ I am an inheritor of God's kingdom. I believe this fact with deep conviction, not because my gut tells me it is true, but because the Word of God tells me it is true.

Peace.
 
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DharmaBum84

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Is it not terribly important to find out one way or the other?

No. I don't believe that it is.

You didn't answer my question: If God has expressed His will clearly to humanity, wouldn't it be absolutely vital to know what that will is?

Not necessarily, no.

So, what do you do if another's experience doesn't bear out what you regard as true in regards to suffering? Who is right? What if suffering isn't a negative in the view of another, but a positive?

No one's right. There are many paths, each as equally valid as all the others.

If nothing is authoritative, does that include your statement here?

Is it true that Truth does not exist? If it is, then Truth does exist and your statement is false. And if you are right that Truth does not exist, this must necessarily include your own statement that it does not, which would make your statement a lie. Either way, the statement "Truth does not exist" is self-refuting.

I understand the contradiction. I have spent a great deal of my academic career dealing with the problematic nature of identifying and defining Truth (which explains my professional interest in religion).

My knowing is not visceral, but factual. The Bible tells me that through Christ I am an inheritor of God's kingdom. I believe this fact with deep conviction, not because my gut tells me it is true, but because the Word of God tells me it is true.

You believe this fact with deep conviction? Surely, I don't have to point out the inherent contradiction.
 
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DharmaBum84

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Here you are out of the loop regarding the historicity of that event. The Jewish people had a strong belief in resurrection. That does not negate the pretty well established historical reliability of the New Testament record regarding the life, death, resurrection and the subsequent teachings that arose from those events.

John
NZ

The Jews, the Greeks, the Romans... Even Buddhist mythology includes tales of resurrection.

I assure you that I am well-informed with regard to the "historical reliability" of the New Testament. I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on that point.
 
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aiki

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Dharmabum84:

I have to say that I'm rather surprised at your willingness to hold illogical and/or irrational ideas so comfortably. A sign of the times perhaps.

If God has expressed His will clearly to humanity, wouldn't it be absolutely vital to know what that will is?

Not necessarily, no.

So, let me get this right: If you were created for a purpose by God, you would not want to know what that purpose is?

No one's right. There are many paths, each as equally valid as all the others.

The above statement is nonsensical. If no one is right, then you are included, which makes your statement self-refuting.

And what do you mean by "equally valid"? Is 2+2=5 as equally valid as 2+2=4?

I understand the contradiction. I have spent a great deal of my academic career dealing with the problematic nature of identifying and defining Truth (which explains my professional interest in religion).

You understand the contradiction? Do you mean you don't care that your thinking is irrational? For that is what holding to nonsensical thinking amounts to.

At 25 years of age (if the personal info. next to your screen name is correct) it is not very significant that you have spent "a great deal of your academic career dealing with the problematic nature of identifying and defining Truth." Perhaps if you'd been doing so for the past 30 years or so such a comment would be more weighty. And, really, why should anyone care how much time you've spent in this pursuit since, according to you, "no one is right" and "nothing is authoritative"?

You believe this fact with deep conviction? Surely, I don't have to point out the inherent contradiction.

LOL! This is rather funny coming from you! :D

My point was that I wasn't merely "going with my gut" but had some objective basis for my convictions. I am curious, though, about the "inherent contradiction" you think is in my statement. Please clarify.

Peace.
 
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