Interview with a top scientist

[dad]

Admittedly, I am not well versed on the subject of slavery in the modern world; whether it still exists or not...but if there are still masters who own people as property, then yes, they are every bit as jerky as the ones described in the Bible.

For you to claim that it's ok for a child to be born into slavery because everyone is a sinner anyway is a bit nauseating.

No child has a choice. Just because some work with a slave title does not mean they are more or less slaves than anyone else. There are millions, for example, of child slaves working as we speak. Some people would claim that the wages paid in China years ago amounted to slavery. Some might claim wages and conditions in say, an Ipod/pad factory were slavery. Some might claim that the draft was slavery. Others might say that many rich folks are slave to the almighty dollar...etc etc.

If I say...be kind to factory workers does that mean I condone slavery?

 

[46AND2]

No child has a choice. Just because some work with a slave title does not mean they are more or less slaves than anyone else. There are millions, for example, of child slaves working as we speak. Some people would claim that the wages paid in China years ago amounted to slavery. Some might claim wages and conditions in say, an Ipod/pad factory were slavery. Some might claim that the draft was slavery. Others might say that many rich folks are slave to the almighty dollar...etc etc.

If I say...be kind to factory workers does that mean I condone slavery?

Are any of these people owned as property and beaten, like the Bible says is okay? If so, then that is morally reprehensible, and should be abolished.

Just because horrible things happen to a lot of people does not make it okay, simply because we are all sinners.

Being a slave to the almighty dollar is not the same thing as being owned by another person who is allowed to beat you. For you to draw that parallel is beyond ridiculous.

 

[dad]

Are any of these people owned as property and beaten, like the Bible says is okay? If so, then that is morally reprehensible, and should be abolished.

Spousal abuse is rampant. Child abuse also. If a person can't really quit a factory or other job, but must work at slave wages and conditions, then they are property basically. Sextrade workers also are abused. Soldiers are hazed and killed. In the past, corporal punishment was normal. So it was basically a part of the job.

Just because horrible things happen to a lot of people does not make it okay, simply because we are all sinners.

The things happen BECAUSE all are sinners.

Being a slave to the almighty dollar is not the same thing as being owned by another person who is allowed to beat you.

Debatable. Hostile takeovers are normal. Espionage and murder are part of the modern corporate structure. They are also part of governments.

Remember that Jesus came to set the captives free. Did He or His followers beat anyone? Not in the bible...no. They are the ones that were beaten and killed.

 

[46AND2]

Spousal abuse is rampant. Child abuse also. If a person can't really quit a factory or other job, but must work at slave wages and conditions, then they are property basically. Sextrade workers also are abused. Soldiers are hazed and killed. In the past, corporal punishment was normal. So it was basically a part of the job.

And all these things are grossly immoral and should be stopped, but your God condones the owning and beating of slaves. Homosexuality he bans, but the owning and beating of slaves he specifically says is fine. THAT is the problem. That is what we object to. It makes the Judeo-Christian God just as evil as the people perpetuating the action.

The things happen BECAUSE all are sinners.

Fine. Doesn't mean God should condone it.

Debatable. Hostile takeovers are normal. Espionage and murder are part of the modern corporate structure. They are also part of governments.

It's not debatable at all. The fact that you think so is disgusting.

Remember that Jesus came to set the captives free. Did He or His followers beat anyone? Not in the bible...no. They are the ones that were beaten and killed.

He never decreed an end to it, either, did he?

 

[dad]

And all these things are grossly immoral and should be stopped,

Right, so we should stop all armies, and factories, and sextrade work, and child labor, and ...sin! Good luck with that.

but your God condones the owning and beating of slaves.

No. In a certain time of man, the practice and custom was dealt with.

Homosexuality he bans, but the owning and beating of slaves he specifically says is fine.

Get your times right. Of course certain lifestyles are banned for the good of mankind, the custom of slaves was dealt with not now....but in the past...when slaves were a part of society.

Fine. Doesn't mean God should condone it.

He does not condone sin. He did help His people deal with a sick sin society in the past. That included war and slaves and etc.

It's not debatable at all. The fact that you think so is disgusting.

It is debatable. Your thoughts need to be brought into line.

He never decreed an end to it, either, did he?

Yes He did! His coming was to set them free! That would take awhile.

 

[46AND2]

Right, so we should stop all armies, and factories, and sextrade work, and child labor, and ...sin! Good luck with that.



No. In a certain time of man, the practice and custom was dealt with.
Get your times right. Of course certain lifestyles are banned for the good of mankind, the custom of slaves was dealt with not now....but in the past...when slaves were a part of society.

He does not condone sin. He did help His people deal with a sick sin society in the past. That included war and slaves and etc.



It is debatable. Your thoughts need to be brought into line.
Yes He did! His coming was to set them free! That would take awhile.

But he didn't deal with the slavery at the time. He condoned it. He outlawed homosexuality, and condoned slavery. A god with absolute morals does not just tolerate something because it is customary among sinful people, he bans it. The fact that he allowed it shows that he didn't consider it immoral at all.

He destroyed dang near the entire population of earth because of what he deemed immoral. You expect me to believe that he just signed off on slavery because humans liked having them? It's ridiculous, and entirely inconsistent.

I mean, it's not like he just turned a blind eye to it, he gave his stinkin' permission for it. Talk about contributing to the delinquency of a sinner. Sheesh!

 

[dad]

But he didn't deal with the slavery at the time. He condoned it.

No, He regulated what already went on.

He outlawed homosexuality,

Duh..ya think??

A god with absolute morals does not just tolerate something because it is customary among sinful people, he bans it.

False. They don't listen!!!!

The fact that he allowed it shows that he didn't consider it immoral at all.

Sin is immoral. The results of sin are human nature as we know it. The result of that nature is certain realities and practices. The people of God lived in the midst of a heathen population and slavery came with the territory.

He destroyed dang near the entire population of earth because of what he deemed immoral. You expect me to believe that he just signed off on slavery because humans liked having them? It's ridiculous, and entirely inconsistent.

Not at all. It was not sin that killed the world of Noah's day, was it? Noah was a sinner too. Just look at the world shortly after the flood! The plan of salvation for mankind allowed for sinners, but apparently there is a limit.

I mean, it's not like he just turned a blind eye to it, he gave his stinkin' permission for it. Talk about contributing to the delinquency of a sinner. Sheesh!

What do you think He should have done...kill all men? All sinners are delinquent. The cruelty and unfairness and inhumanity of man to man is par for the sin nature course. I could harp on Wal Mart employees might be treated, or prostitutes or soldiers, or dictatorships, or any number of sin symptoms as the big evil thing. But life is like that. Domestic help is apparently not the most evil thing and the most dangerous thing to the salvation of man.

 

[46AND2]

No, He regulated what already went on.

Duh..ya think??
False. They don't listen!!!!


Sin is immoral. The results of sin are human nature as we know it. The result of that nature is certain realities and practices. The people of God lived in the midst of a heathen population and slavery came with the territory.
Not at all. It was not sin that killed the world of Noah's day, was it? Noah was a sinner too. Just look at the world shortly after the flood! The plan of salvation for mankind allowed for sinners, but apparently there is a limit.
What do you think He should have done...kill all men? All sinners are delinquent. The cruelty and unfairness and inhumanity of man to man is par for the sin nature course. I could harp on Wal Mart employees might be treated, or prostitutes or soldiers, or dictatorships, or any number of sin symptoms as the big evil thing. But life is like that. Domestic help is apparently not the most evil thing and the most dangerous thing to the salvation of man.

I think it's pretty obvious what I think he should have done about it...outlaw it. Like he did with every other thing that he deemed immoral. Did he "regulate" homosexuality? Did he "regulate" murder? No. He banned them. As he should have done with slavery.

It's sad that you don't realize this. It's a pretty simple concept.

 

[CabVet]

No, He regulated what already went on.

You seem to not understand what "condone" means. Here:

Condone: to accept and allow behavior that is considered morally wrong or offensive to continue. to regard or treat (something bad or blameworthy) as acceptable, forgivable, or harmless.

 

[dad]

You seem to not understand what "condone" means. Here:

Condone: to accept and allow behavior that is considered morally wrong or offensive to continue. to regard or treat (something bad or blameworthy) as acceptable, forgivable, or harmless.

Until the King returns, He allows all manner of evil upon the earth. No news there. There were a lot worse things than domestic service, that usually came with food and shelter!

Come on people, life is life.

 

[dad]

I think it's pretty obvious what I think he should have done about it...outlaw it. Like he did with every other thing that he deemed immoral. Did he "regulate" homosexuality? Did he "regulate" murder? No. He banned them. As he should have done with slavery.

The world custom was there, hey, don't blame God. We know what He is like, He came to offer life and freedom. Did He have Adam in chains? No.


Slavery is just something that was like clothes, a part of life back then. Jacob had to slave away for 21 years, Daniel was a slave captive, Joseph was a slave in Egypt, Moses ruled over slaves and led them to freedom! Israel went into slavery in Babylon. John and Peter were jailbirds as was Paul, and many many other early Christians. Paul received 39 whippings several times, and these if I recall ripped the skin to shreds and left the back a bloody mess. Tortured and jailed many times probably trumps some dishwasher slave living high off the hog!

It's sad that you don't realize this. It's a pretty simple concept.

Overruled.

 

[Davian]

Why would I question the rules God set down in the past? Seems good to me. Set your slaves free in the Jubilee, treat them OK, etc etc. So?? You do realize that the world had slavery as part of what went on back then? Even many natives took slaves. God simply dealt with reality.

You may be happy with it, but for me, a religion that embraces slavery can take a hike.

 

[TLK Valentine]

The world custom was there, hey, don't blame God. We know what He is like, He came to offer life and freedom. Did He have Adam in chains? No.

Enslave people? God's cool with that.

Worship some other deity? BURN IN HELL FOREVER

Stay classy, God.

 

[dad]

You may be happy with it, but for me, a religion that embraces slavery can take a hike.

Real slavery is sin. He came to abolish that. The job title slave is just another form of slavery.

 

[dad]

Enslave people? God's cool with that.

Worship some other deity? BURN IN HELL FOREVER

Stay classy, God.

I think your view is somewhat skewed.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Real slavery is sin. He came to abolish that. The job title slave is just another form of slavery.

So, he was very selective about what he wanted to save people from.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I think your view is somewhat skewed.

depends on what I'm looking at -- I think a deity who condones (and in fact, orders) human beings to enslave one another so long as the masters pay him lip service is pretty skewed.

 

[dad]

So, he was very selective about what he wanted to save people from.

No. He was fairly specific from death and sin. Sin is the cause of slavery. But all the various symptoms of sin are here till sin is gone.

 

[dad]

depends on what I'm looking at -- I think a deity who condones (and in fact, orders) human beings to enslave one another so long as the masters pay him lip service is pretty skewed.

Hey you are entitled to your 2 cents worth of opinion.