• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

interracial relationship?

Status
Not open for further replies.

rhema glory

Active Member
Aug 19, 2004
83
3
✟228.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
quot-top-left.gif
Quote:
quot-top-right.gif
quot-by-left.gif
Originally Posted by: Volos
quot-by-right.gif
quot-top-right-10.gif
I have been quite amused by the Christian response to Blackguard_. If Blackguard were to change his arguments form interracial marriage to same sex marriage Christians would be tripping over themselves to applaud and agree with him. The arguments he is using to defend discrimination against interracial marriage are identical to those used to defend discrimination against legal recognition of same sex marriage.



Great job Blackguard_
S
Sexual orientation and skin color are not one in the same!They are apples and oranges!I'm sure w/ persuasive arguments, and emotionalism-one may actually start to think they are one in the same!Someone's OP, or feelings doesn't dictate God's truth,his WORD dictates truth!I believe the problem w/ some christians is they start to listen to the cunning deceptiveness of the world,and guilted- and then evil becomes good(just like the bible warned us of..evil becoming good,and good becoming evil in the last days)

So if one is opposed to polygammy they are hateful?
If one is opposed to mother marrying son,they are hateful?(this has already happened)
One could say- well it's not effecting my family,but not everyone is ONLY looking out for just THEIR family- but society as a whole!W/in the next 20yrs there could be a movement where mom and son wanted to marry,they could also use the same arguments gays are using....see,where does all the comparison end??
 
Upvote 0
Not including biblical references (sorry)...
I was raised with the concept that interracial marriage was against what is "supposed" to happen. Personally, I find that the commonalities between beliefs of the two people involved trumps the race issue, and that is something that I have lived. I have a ridiculously pesky conscience, and I have felt nothing negative about being in a relationship with someone of different race.

My advice would be pray that your eyes be opened to the right course of action for you. If you feel guilty about it and can't seem to overcome that guilt, then maybe it's not what was intended.

On another note, race is a very different issue now than before, I think. I don't mean only that things are being normalized, but that the cultural conflicts that could have resulted in the past are no longer as much of a problem.

Best of luck to you.
 
Upvote 0

Blackguard_

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
Feb 9, 2004
9,468
374
43
Tucson
✟33,992.00
Faith
Lutheran
Still, this does not show that God made the races and intended for them to remain separate.

It wasn't meant to, I was just trying to show that the ways of God can be inferred from Creation and so Natural Law is a legitamate concept.

What event/occurance/whatever in your life lead you to believe that God made races and intended them to be separate?

No single event or occurance. Just thinking about things like the end result of race-mixing and realizing race-mixing was bad in a Kantian Universal Principle sort of way, as I did not consider a one/no race world a good thing. and my views evolved from there.

Why is preserving races so important?

Because that seems to be how God wants it. Natural Law etc.

Why should skin color be more important than other traits like nose length, height, weight, bone thickness, temperment, height of forehead, skin texture, and other bodily features?
You got it backwards, skin color often is less important as many races have similar skin tones but differ in other ways.

I don't think God cares about race any more than any of these characteristics when it comes to the choice of a life partner. Does God care what color of eyes, or hair your spouce may have? Does He think that the eye colors and the hair colors must match?

Does He then think the skin color or facial structures must match?

I doubt it seriously.

Well if race is important then those features you mentioned coordinating are important as the coordination and grouping of traits is what differentiates the races. So those traits are important when they relate to race of your spouse.
 
Upvote 0

Blackguard_

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
Feb 9, 2004
9,468
374
43
Tucson
✟33,992.00
Faith
Lutheran
Not including biblical references (sorry)...
I was raised with the concept that interracial marriage was against what is "supposed" to happen. Personally, I find that the commonalities between beliefs of the two people involved trumps the race issue, and that is something that I have lived.

Yeah, marrying someone of a different faith but the same race isn't much better then marrying inter-racially in your faith. But I think I am supposed to marry someone of my race and faith, both being important. So I agree faith is more important then race, but that does not mean race does not count for anything.

I have a ridiculously pesky conscience, and I have felt nothing negative about being in a relationship with someone of different race.

Mine gets pesky too, but apparently in opposition to yours on this matter, but no one has a perfect conscience.

My advice would be pray that your eyes be opened to the right course of action for you.
Yes, that is good advice.

If you feel guilty about it and can't seem to overcome that guilt, then maybe it's not what was intended.

That is most likely true. Even if I eventually come to the conclusion inter-racial marriage is ok, I have no intention of doing it myself.

And I figured it a possibility I might be like what Paul was talking about in Romans 14..

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

On another note, race is a very different issue now than before, I think. I don't mean only that things are being normalized, but that the cultural conflicts that could have resulted in the past are no longer as much of a problem.

yes, although there is still plenty of room for cultural conflicts, you are right there is less chance of that then there used to be. and i am not sure what point you are trying to make.

Best of luck to you.

and to you as well.
 
Upvote 0

Blackguard_

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
Feb 9, 2004
9,468
374
43
Tucson
✟33,992.00
Faith
Lutheran
Men built the buildings, but God created the people in them. Why should God destroy his human creation, when He knows they will be judged after they die anyway? Other than the reason that they were destined to be destroyed? Since you say destroying racial differences is evil and hateful, is God also evil?

1. God sometimes judges on Earth, such as an example to others and other reasons, such as to stop them if they are getting out of hand.

2. If you argue if God can judge a city and destroy it, why not a race? I would argue that races being destroyed becasue other humans wanted to make with them is different then destroying city that has been judged. If God wanted a race to to be destroyed he'd probably use a plague or other natural disaster or or a genocidal war such as in teh slaughter of various tribes in the OT. If God wanted to judge and destroy a race by allowing it to be bred out, that is a possibility. But that would be God allowing something to happen asa punishment and not God himself destroying the races like God himself destroyed Sodom. But allowing something bad to ahppen as punishemt does not mean the person who performed the action is cleared of the guilt, such as if God wanted to punish a Mobster by allowing someone to murder him, the murderer would still be guilty of murder and would be judged too.

And I think you are confusing destiny and purpose. That many people are destined for Hell does not mean God created them to be sent to Hell. If a race car driver is destined to lose the race does that mean his purpose was to lose? Or was his purpose to win and he was destined to fail?


Then by this logic, God should destroy all of us because the Bible says "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

Yep, all mankind deserves to be destroyed. That's kind of why Jesus needed to save us.


So should a tall person not marry a short person? Should a fat person not marry a skinny person because they have a different bone structure? After all, God created the tall person's tallness, so it should be preserved too, right?

1. Size is more nutrition then genetics. You've heard the stories of short Orientals coming to the US and and then having large kids right? And height does not seem to be very racially distinct trait. By "bone structure" I meant things more like shape or whatever forensics people use to identify bones as belonging to people of a certain race. I know they can indenify the race by the skull but am not sure if they can by other bones. I can fiind lots of stuff on forensics being able to use bones to identify the reace, but nothing on whether they need the skull or not to do so. So it may be I was wrong that bone structure is a racial difference outside the skull.

2. race is identified by by groupings of traits such as the ones I listed, there is no single "race indentifier trait" although it is sometimes possible to know there is a race difference with a single trait, such as you know a person with really dark brown skin is not white, although you would not be able to identify a specific race based just on brown skin. And for these traits the races have ranges within they fall into, such as how a race can have a skin tone range. These ranges are what make it so that people of the same race can still have an individual look.

For instance, a white person with a Roman nose and one with a straight nose would technically have a diferent facial structure, but both are within the range to be considered white.

3. I think as far as the genetic component of height, it would be preserved in the race due to the Hardy-Weinberg Principle mentioned earlier. Similar to how a brown-eyed white person and a blonde haired white person person can mate as even though their traits are technically different' the traits fall within the range of their race and the genetics would be preserved accoring to the Hardy-Weinberg Principle.



Studies have also shown that Jewish people and Middle-eastern arabs have the same genetic line, even though they are considered different races.

If you are talking about Sephardic Jews, that is probably because they are the same race as the Arabs, and they just like pretending they aren't as a religious conceit.

Or they may be a different "race" if you use a narrower meaning of the word, as the Jews could have different familial lineages then the rest of the Arabs and still be a different "race" in the more narrow lineagal sense of the word. So this comes from an error of equivocation.

Or what do you mean by "same genetic line"? they have a common ancestor group somewhere or that DNA tests cannot tell the difference between them?

If you mean Ashkeni Jews, I won't believe it unless I see it. Unless you mean some common ancestor group way back.
 
Upvote 0

Motus

Regular Member
Jul 16, 2004
440
17
46
✟30,767.00
Faith
Other Religion
I am done discussing this farce.

Ezek 13:6-8
6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The LORD saith: and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.
7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken?
8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD.
 
Upvote 0

seebs

God Made Me A Skeptic
Apr 9, 2002
31,917
1,530
20
Saint Paul, MN
Visit site
✟70,235.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
*sigh*. Yes, "race" has some slight meaning biologically. So do many other groupings, such as "male" or "female". But... Not all people are members of a clearly defined "race", and God made clear from very early on that ethnic, cultural, and genetic backgrounds were not a barrier to love, with the arguable exception of incest.
 
Upvote 0

Shane Roach

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2002
14,552
1,328
57
✟23,036.00
Faith
Christian
Blackguard_ said:
Shane

Yep, the "brotherhood of all believers". although I'm not sure what to make of "mother" and what the signifgance of "father" not being mentioned is. I'll look into this some more.
Well, I think father is left out because in this brotherhood, God is the Father. Mother is therefore still an open and avaialable family tag.

You seem to be saying that you have no problems working with people of different races, which leaves me wondering what the difference is you say there is in race. I mean, in one post you say race is more than color, but when the factors that have something to do with something other than color are introduced you sort of balk at addressing that.

In any event, I reiterate, the differences in people are not legitimate within the family of God. Jew and Gentile, slave and free, all are equal, and there are to be no artificial divisions. You will find no racial prohibitions of marriage in the Bible save the ones having to do with idolatrous nations. Your position is still left entirely without any Biblical support, and goes against clear Biblical teaching as to the unity of Christians with one another. This sort of thing is not optional, by the way, but is a commandment. We are to love one another and support one another, and inventing false teachings and insisting on things that God has not ordained created disorder, which is not just ok. I'm not saying it makes one lose their salvation, but remember, we are all to be judged and rewarded for our works, and undermining the work of the Church in standing against ideas and anything that raises itself up against or over God will not go unnoticed.

I can't really urge you any more strongly than that. You've been uncommonly polite for someone teaching this particular false teaching, but it remains false, and I find your lack of any wavering even though you yourself seem to observe that there is nothing Biblical to support your attitude somewhat hard to understand.

If all you were saying was that you personally prefer to remain within your own race for personal reasons, I wouldn't see the problem. Then too, I would sort of wonder why you felt the need to tell anyone that. Habitually, most people do end up finding themselves more comfortable within their own race and culture.

That actually reminds me of something. You've no doubt noticed that blacks raised in middle class neighborhoods take on the speach and habits of what we traditionally think of as "white" culture, while whites who live in the inner cities often take on the behaviors of what we call "black" culture. I would think these sorts of things would be part of what you would refer to as part of being a "race", yet it can be observed that they are more a result of surroundings than anything racial. What do you make of that?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Blackguard_
Upvote 0

seebs

God Made Me A Skeptic
Apr 9, 2002
31,917
1,530
20
Saint Paul, MN
Visit site
✟70,235.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
There are more interesting examples. A black guy from Britain will sound "upper class" to most folks in the US. For that matter, there's at least one white rap group (3rd Bass) whose members are from the inner city, and "sound black" to most people. So far as we can tell, it's mostly culture, not genetics.
 
Upvote 0

Radagast

comes and goes
Site Supporter
Dec 10, 2003
23,896
9,877
✟367,481.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Motus said:
Race is an obsolete concept. Creating dividing lines between people of different skin types is just an excuse to create fear and hate. Doesn't the bible say there's no difference between jew and greek?
Exactly! The racists twist both science and theology to fit their bigotry, because neither supports their case (scientifically, genes exist, but races don't really; and theologically, there is NO support for racism in the bible---indeed the contrary).

-- Radagast
 
Upvote 0

rahma

FUNdamentalist
Jan 15, 2004
6,120
496
22
between a frozen wastelan and a wast desert
Visit site
✟31,435.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
I married someone of a different race, and our kids will be a gorgeous mix of the two. Interracial kids are always beautiful, imho :kiss:

Although I suppose arab is a subrace of white? My husband and I check the same little box for white on the affirmative action forms. Not that it really means much, as his hair is much more wirey then mine, and he is linked more to Africa then to Europe.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cabbitgrrrl
Upvote 0

Volos

Well-Known Member
Jun 25, 2003
3,236
171
59
Michign
✟4,244.00
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Married
rhema glory said:
Sexual orientation and skin color are not one in the same!
really? What a revelation!



They are apples and oranges!I'm sure w/ persuasive arguments, and emotionalism-one may actually start to think they are one in the same!
Discrimination however is discrimination no matter who it is directed against.




The point being made (and one you choose to not notice) is that the arguments promoting or defending discrimination against gays and lesbians are identical to the ones used to support racial discrimination, and they are the same ones used to support religious discrimination and these are the same ones used to support sexual discrimination.





Someone's OP, or feelings doesn't dictate God's truth,his WORD dictates truth!I believe the problem w/ some christians is they start to listen to the cunning deceptiveness of the world,and guilted- and then evil becomes good(just like the bible warned us of..evil becoming good,and good becoming evil in the last days)
you mean like when Christians use the bible to defend discrimination?

So if one is opposed to polygammy they are hateful?
If one is opposed to mother marrying son,they are hateful?(this has already happened)
are Christian groups falsifying the research on polygamists? Do Christians run around taking verses from the bible claiming that it is moral to kill polygamists (tough to do considering the bible supports polygamy)


Do Christian groups picket the funerals of polygamists and shout slogans of hate at their surviving family members?


One could say- well it's not effecting my family,but not everyone is ONLY looking out for just THEIR family- but society as a whole!
yes that is why so many people are fighting for equal rights and an end to discrimination because hate and prejudice hurts society.




W/in the next 20yrs there could be a movement where mom and son wanted to marry,they could also use the same arguments gays are using....see,where does all the comparison end??
and within the next twenty years conservative Christians could start a movement to reinstate slavery. Does this strange possibility give the rest of us the right to deny civil rights to conservative Christians?
 
Upvote 0

Shane Roach

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2002
14,552
1,328
57
✟23,036.00
Faith
Christian
Volos said:
really? What a revelation![/color]



Discrimination however is discrimination no matter who it is directed against.



The point being made (and one you choose to not notice) is that the arguments promoting or defending discrimination against gays and lesbians are identical to the ones used to support racial discrimination, and they are the same ones used to support religious discrimination and these are the same ones used to support sexual discrimination.





you mean like when Christians use the bible to defend discrimination?

are Christian groups falsifying the research on polygamists? Do Christians run around taking verses from the bible claiming that it is moral to kill polygamists (tough to do considering the bible supports polygamy)


Do Christian groups picket the funerals of polygamists and shout slogans of hate at their surviving family members?


yes that is why so many people are fighting for equal rights and an end to discrimination because hate and prejudice hurts society.




and within the next twenty years conservative Christians could start a movement to reinstate slavery. Does this strange possibility give the rest of us the right to deny civil rights to conservative Christians?
Laws exist for many reasons, not all of which have to do with victims of crime. Disturbance of the peace, for example. The chances that you support in society towards homsexuality may or may not be a good thing, I don't know, but accusing Christians of being evil just on the belief that homosexuality is a sin, or insinuating that Christians who are not for gay marriage have no reason other than that they have hate in their heart, is not acceptable.

You came to a Christian Forum, presumeably to talk to Christians. You must have anticipated many of us are not all for homosexual marriage and the like before you even so much as hit the link to come here. Do not come here and belittle people just because they believe differently than you.

Furthermore, this is not a thread about homosexuality to begin with.

I've lodged a report on this post of yours. I'm also asking you just as a person, again, do not come here just for the purpose of being rude to Christians. It is, among other things, supposedly against the rules.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BarbB
Upvote 0

cabbitgrrrl

Well-Known Member
Mar 24, 2004
986
47
42
✟23,882.00
Faith
Pagan
Politics
US-Democrat
Volos said:
really? What a revelation![/color]



Discrimination however is discrimination no matter who it is directed against.



The point being made (and one you choose to not notice) is that the arguments promoting or defending discrimination against gays and lesbians are identical to the ones used to support racial discrimination, and they are the same ones used to support religious discrimination and these are the same ones used to support sexual discrimination.





you mean like when Christians use the bible to defend discrimination?

are Christian groups falsifying the research on polygamists? Do Christians run around taking verses from the bible claiming that it is moral to kill polygamists (tough to do considering the bible supports polygamy)


Do Christian groups picket the funerals of polygamists and shout slogans of hate at their surviving family members?


yes that is why so many people are fighting for equal rights and an end to discrimination because hate and prejudice hurts society.




and within the next twenty years conservative Christians could start a movement to reinstate slavery. Does this strange possibility give the rest of us the right to deny civil rights to conservative Christians?

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Volos again.
 
Upvote 0

cabbitgrrrl

Well-Known Member
Mar 24, 2004
986
47
42
✟23,882.00
Faith
Pagan
Politics
US-Democrat
rahma said:
I married someone of a different race, and our kids will be a gorgeous mix of the two. Interracial kids are always beautiful, imho :kiss:

Although I suppose arab is a subrace of white? My husband and I check the same little box for white on the affirmative action forms. Not that it really means much, as his hair is much more wirey then mine, and he is linked more to Africa then to Europe.

isnt it said in your religion that "All are equal in the eyes of Allah" or something along those lines?
 
Upvote 0

IDOXLR8

Active Member
Aug 20, 2004
55
4
Michigan
✟195.00
Faith
Catholic
I am Puerto Rican and just got out of an interracial relationship (dated a Caucasian girl). The most important thing to ask yourself is your relationship centered around God? This has to be something that both of you need to accept. If not things will not work out regardless of what race your bf is.
 
Upvote 0

cabbitgrrrl

Well-Known Member
Mar 24, 2004
986
47
42
✟23,882.00
Faith
Pagan
Politics
US-Democrat
IDOXLR8 said:
I am Puerto Rican and just got out of an interracial relationship (dated a Caucasian girl). The most important thing to ask yourself is your relationship centered around God? This has to be something that both of you need to accept. If not things will not work out regardless of what race your bf is.

so your saying my relationship wont work because it isnt centered around god?
 
Upvote 0

IDOXLR8

Active Member
Aug 20, 2004
55
4
Michigan
✟195.00
Faith
Catholic
cabbitgrrrl said:
so your saying my relationship wont work because it isnt centered around god?
I am talking about my personal experiences. I do not know what point you are in your relationship. How long have you dated? In the last 6 years I have been in two relationship. The first relationship was centered around God and things went great. I will admit that other than God we did not have much in common. Yeah we had our arguements and eventually the reason things did not work out is because we were young and at different points of our lives. We date for 4 years and I will say that it is incredible how much I learned in that relationship.

My next relationship just ended a few weeks ago. This relationship was not based on God and I was more preoccupied on trying to make her happy than focusing on God. I thought the relationship was great because we had so much in common. It wasn't great because I lost my relationship with God and replaced him with my ex-gf. Turned out to be a bad thing.

If you want things to work in your relationship than you both must rely on God to make things right. That means both of you understanding the purpose of your lives in the eyes of God. This is not something you can force on anyone and both you and your bf must want to do it. Hopefully, it makes sense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BarbB
Upvote 0

rahma

FUNdamentalist
Jan 15, 2004
6,120
496
22
between a frozen wastelan and a wast desert
Visit site
✟31,435.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
cabbitgrrrl said:
isnt it said in your religion that "All are equal in the eyes of Allah" or something along those lines?

Why yes, it does :) The Qur'an is clear that we were created from the same source, and from there we multiplied, diversifying in tongue and color (30:22, 4:1), but this does not mean that one race is superior to another:

'O People! Verily We have created you from a man and woman and we made you into various tribes and creeds for the purpose of mutual recognition (not discrimination and racial pride). Verily the most prestigious and honoured amongst you is he who fears Allah Taãla most. Verily Allah Taãla is all Knowing. All Aware' (Surah 49:13).

In the Prophet's last sermon, he said that no one race has superiority over another, because we are all brothers.

And from the very beginning, the Prophet (saws) encouraged interracial marriages. So my husband and I are mearly following the sunnah (example) of the Prophet.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.