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Interpretation affecting what's important?

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Ave Maria

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phylaax said:
How does an interpretation of Genesis relate to a Christian's spiritual life? What are some reasons that it is so important?
Hey phylaax. I believe that the right interpretation of Genesis is very important to a Christian's spiritual life. Take a look at some of these articles ok? Thanks!

The god of an Old Earth
Evolution or Creation: What difference does it make?
Should Genesis be taken literally?
How should we interpet Genesis 1-11?

Anyway, I hope these articles help you out. God bless you!
 
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Bushido216

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pressingon said:
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and chalk that comment up to a misunderstanding of what I've posted rather than to an intentional backhanded insult. Please re-read my post considering the clarifications contained in this post.


It's never been my viewpoint that the Bible and science are in opposition to one another, and certainly not my intent to present that through my posts here. In fact, I believe the two are intimately entwined....

In re-reading my post, I guess I can see where you might get that interpretation though (wasn't that what we were just talking about anyway, interpretations?):


I believe that faith (general term, not just religious faith) is inherently important in what we hold to be true, whether those truths be scientific or spiritual in nature, primarily because we cannot absolutely PROVE anything. We can demonstrate that scientific laws are consistent in the present, but that does not give absolute proof that they have been and always will remain constant. As such, we have faith that these laws are indeed absolutely true. Similarly, we can demonstrate to ourselves that God exists based on a variety of evidence (personal experiences, observations in nature, etc.), but we cannot give absolute proof that He does. Faith is also required.

With that in mind, and knowing that by faith we accept Christianity as true, we accept as truth that we receive the Holy Spirit from God as part of our salvation experience. By faith, we believe that a very real Holy Spirit guides us to truth. If this is true, why then would we not allow our religious faith to help us form the basis of our scientific faiths as well? Prayer, meditation, Scripture reading... all should come into play in determining truth.

That being said, don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that because we have faith that a certain interpretation of the Bible is true, we skew our science to support that belief. What I am saying is this (which is exactly what you stated, if I'm not mistaken): in instances where they do not agree, perhaps we should check our interpretation of one or the other. How does that apply? Creationists tend to check our interpretation of scientific evidence... Theistic evolutionists tend to check their interpretations of the Bible. Hopefully both sides are prayerfully allowing God's guidance to play a part in what they re-examine (of course that cannot be true, as that would mean God is contradicting himself, but we can't know absolutely which side corresponds to absolute truth..... but I digress).

Hopefully, this helps, but I'm afraid I've just muddied the waters further. We're already off-topic far enough, so let's try to get this back to phylaax's original question. A new thread would be appropriate if something we've gone off-topic about needs to be discussed further.

Anyway, on to my final request, one I'm repeating for the third time... Please post a link to an external website with detailed information from the Theistic Evolutionist viewpoint that addresses phylaax's original question. It's not that you're not doing a good job explaining, but simply that external sites contain far more information from both sides for the reader of this thread to consider than can possibly be posted within this thread. I have presented a link that could give hours of reading about the YEC viewpoint... for the sake of the reader who's undecided, a Theistic Evolutionist link with a similar amount of information is needed so both sides can be considered equally. I'll even post them together for convenience, if you'll just provide the link for the TE viewpoint (I would find one myself, but since I don't hold to that belief, it really wouldn't be appropriate as I could not accurately assess its characterization of that belief).

Anyway, that's enough for me for today.

My apologies, pressington. We are of the same mind, it seems. You caught me on a day when I was (pa)trolling the Politics forum.

I never really bothered to find a link outlining the TE position since that position is really rather varied as TE's put the first cause at various points in the Universe's history and have varying beliefs as to whether or not evolution is a guided or casual process.

With that in mind, let me say that I tend to trust our interpretations of science simply because Creation has left us with lots of hard, observable data that can be collected and made sense of. As to the Word I tend to shy away from interpreting the text so much as understanding the message contained therein.
 
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Bushido216

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Sinai

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Bushido216 said:
God has given us everything we see around us. Specifically he gave us his Word and his Creation (keep in mind that TE's accept God's creation, but challenge the HOW of that creation).

BOTH the Word and the Creation need to be interpreted. That's what science is, interpreting the data. That's what religion is, too, interpreting the messages.

What Theistic Evolutionists have done is find a harmony between the two interpretations. Fortunately science provides an excellent tool for interpreting God's creation. Science CANNOT deny God's creation, it can only study it.

So, my advice is to listen to both religion and science. One is the study of the Word and the other is the study of the Creation. In this instance they can agree that the world is not young. In instances where they cannot agree perhaps we should check OUR interpretation of one or the other.
pressingon said:
I couldn't agree more. If the interpretations don't agree, one (or even both) is incorrect. The heart of the matter, of course, is which -- the scientific interpretation that supports evolution or the Biblical interpretation that supports Creation.

Both Bushido and pressingon have made some excellent points. Let me add the following suggestions to what they have said.

If God's word is true (as I believe it is), then we can believe the Bible when it tells us that God is the truth and does not lie, nor is He deceitful or false. Thus, both His word and His world should give consistent and true accounts of His creation. If you think they are inconsistent and contradictory, you may find it helpful to make a closer study of both.

A study of physics, astronomy, biology and other sciences at a good accredited university--including Christian universities like Notre Dame, Baylor, SMU and Wake Forest--would probably be a good place to start, and there are many excellent scientific journals and books that cover the tremendous scientific discoveries that have been made over the past 70 or so years that are giving us a much clearer picture of the creative process.

Similarly, get into the actual meanings of what the Bible says by studying the original languages of the Bible--Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek--and ancient commentaries on the scriptures in question. Even if a word-for-word translation were possible, it would still not really be fully "literal" and true to the original meanings, since it would not express all the nuances of the original language.

Since Hebrew is a rather ancient language that lacks the large vocabulary available in English, the same word or phrase may have many different possible meanings. The person or persons translating Hebrew into English generally use the most common meaning that is possible within the context--but that may cause what appears to be a conflict with a different verse or with a scientific or archelogical discovery.

However, most such apparent conflicts disappear upon a closer inspection of the range of meanings and the full context of the passage in question. When dealing with scripture that has scientific implications, in order to avoid reading a meaning into a passage that it probably should not have, I like to cross reference it with analysis and commetary from outstanding biblical scholars who wrote more than 700 years ago (well before modern scientfic discoveries).

May God lead you and guide you in your quest....
 
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ElElohe

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Not this again . . . .

Chi_Cygni said:
evolution is a fact.

You can argue as to the theory explaining evolution but you cannot argue it's occurrence.
. . . because this . . .

This is why it's pointless to argue with Creationists.
. . . goes both ways. The dialogue is just mudslinging from both sides (a generalization born out of truth).
 
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ElElohe

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phylaax said:
How does an interpretation of Genesis relate to a Christian's spiritual life? What are some reasons that it is so important?
My gut reaction as a Christian is that our interpretation, whatever it may be, of the account of Creation in Genesis (I'm assuming that, in this forum, this question is limited to the first few chapters) will affect our understanding of God's CHARACTER.

As in:

"How powerful is He?"
"What are His limitations?" (silly, I know, but comes to mind . . .)
"How involved is He in a person's existence?" (is He involved or just observing?)

And so forth.

It may also dictate our understanding of what a MIRACLE is.

In that:

"Did God create the physical laws observed in this universe?"
"Is God able to function outside of the physical laws observed in this universe?" (hence, the definition of "miracle")

Depending on how we answer these questions, our spiritual life and ability to serve and honor God will vary. Do we put God in a box, or do we allow our understanding of Him to soar to an infinate latitude?
 
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Chi_Cygni

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ElElohe said:
Not this again . . . .

. . . because this . . .

. . . goes both ways. The dialogue is just mudslinging from both sides (a generalization born out of truth).

Thanks for quoting me out of context. The professional Creationists will be hiring you soon - you already have the quoting out of context skill down pat.
 
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Bushido216

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ElElohe said:
Not this again . . . .

. . . because this . . .

. . . goes both ways. The dialogue is just mudslinging from both sides (a generalization born out of truth).

But this isn't necessarily an evolution discussion so an indepth analysis would be pointless.

If you want to debate evolution and creationism I suggest that you go to the Open Creation & Evolution forum and start a thread. You will be summarily shown to be incorrect in your thinking but it will be an enlightening experience.
 
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Sinai

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phylaax said:
How does an interpretation of Genesis relate to a Christian's spiritual life? What are some reasons that it is so important?
Let me mention a few things that come to mind at the moment: Genesis means "beginning" or "origin"--and that is exactly what it is. The very first verse tells us not only that there was a beginning of the universe and of time as we know it, but that there also was a Creator who caused that beginning to occur. It might be noted that after two thousand years of following Aristotle's philosophy and the steady state theory (which claimed the universe has always existed and that there was no beginning), science has now come around to the biblical perspective that there was a beginning (of the universe, of all matter, and of time as we know it).

But the Bible doesn't take time to discuss scientific principles or explain precisely how God created the universe in general and our world in particular. Instead it rushes through the 31 verses of that first chapter in order to get to the real story--the greatest love story ever told: The story of God's love for human beings. The first two chapters tell us that we have special worth and purpose for God, since he created us in His image as an eternal soul capable of worshiping and fellowshiping with God eternally if we choose to do so.

Genesis shows how sin separates us from God, but also tells of God's grace in forgiving our sins if we confess those sins and produce a guilt offering. Although the sinner deserved to die, God accepted the blood of the sacrifical lamb as a substitute.

Genesis also introduces us to Abraham and to God's covenant with him. God promised that although Abraham would be the father of many nations, it would be through one of those nations that all the peoples of the world would be blessed.

Understanding God's promises and covenant helps us understand why it was necessary for Christ to come to earth and to die for our sins. In at least that respect I think it relates to our spiritual lives....
 
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brinley45cal

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It is of huge importance! If Genesis isn't true, then why would Romans or Galatians be true? God is not a man that he can lie. "Christians" the world over SCOFF at the Bible believing only that they are saved. I don't pick and choose the parts of the Bible that I like and just believe that!

I agree i think you either have to belive all of the bible or none of it.
 
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L'Anatra

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ElElohe said:
...this goes both ways. The dialogue is just mudslinging from both sides (a generalization born out of truth).
This isn't true. There may be mudslinging from both sides, but reality seems to be represented for the most part by only one side, and that side is not yours.

I suggest you learn more about science before you make that judgment call.
 
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ElElohe

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Been there, done that, hence my previous post.

Bushido216 said:
But this isn't necessarily an evolution discussion so an indepth analysis would be pointless.

If you want to debate evolution and creationism I suggest that you go to the Open Creation & Evolution forum and start a thread. You will be summarily shown to be incorrect in your thinking but it will be an enlightening experience.
 
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ElElohe

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One does not need knowledge of a topic in order to observe a discussion (if it can be called that between these two sides) and draw a conclusion about the parties.

L'Anatra said:
This isn't true. There may be mudslinging from both sides, but reality seems to be represented for the most part by only one side, and that side is not yours.

I suggest you learn more about science before you make that judgment call.
 
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Bushido216

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brinley45cal said:
I agree i think you either have to belive all of the bible or none of it.

I presume you ignored the entire rest of the thread, where both pressington and I outlined great cases for why your view is destructive and unnecessary.
 
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Bushido216

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ElElohe said:
Is it a weakness to have such convictions and stick to them???

Sadly, yes, in a lot of modern cultures.

But your convictions aren't helping you. You're not only limiting the ways in which you can approach the Bible. The Good Book is meant to be taken from all sides. If the How of God's Creation is more important to you than the Why, what good is that? If the fact that Adam and Eve existed is more important than Why their story is included than what purpose are you serving? You've made it your sole, fallible interpretation of the Bible versus God's creation. That's not healthy.
 
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pressingon

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Bushido216 said:
I presume you ignored the entire rest of the thread, where both pressington and I outlined great cases for why your view is destructive and unnecessary.
Not to argue, but I personally agree with the quote regarding all or nothing, with the following elaborations:

I believe the Bible to be inerrant, but we must rely on the guidance of the Holy Spirit to understand it properly. We can all get differing interpretations or meanings out of what we read in Scripture, the truth of which depends on how in touch we are with the Holy Spirit's guidance. Taking an absolutist stand (which I believe is what you're referring to Bushido216), either direction, based on our own understanding, leaving no room for the fact that our interpretations can be wrong, demonstrates a lack of the humility Christ expects of us.

On that note, I'd like to remind everyone here (BOTH SIDES) that we are all brothers and sisters in Christ. Mud-slinging, belittling, name-calling, etc. is not beneficial to the cause of Christ, and in my opinion disrespects Him wholly. If we're going to disagree in the course of discussions here, let's do it respectfully, okay?
 
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