Interfaith dialogue

[amariselle]

I don't know how they pray. To ask what they pray for limits pray to simple prays of petition. Prayer is primarily adoration of God.

They pray to Allah. Allah is just the Arabic word for God. I believe Spanish speakers praying to Dios still pray to God. They pray to the one almighty God. There is only one almighty God. Did he reveal himself to Muhammad? Probably not. Do we worship the same monotheistic almighty God of Abraham? Yes

You should do some careful research into Islam and its history. It seems you have some serious misconceptions about the Islamic religion.

 

[JIMINZ]

I don't know how they pray. To ask what they pray for limits pray to simple prays of petition. Prayer is primarily adoration of God.

They pray to Allah. Allah is just the Arabic word for God. I believe Spanish speakers praying to Dios still pray to God. They pray to the one almighty God. There is only one almighty God. Did he reveal himself to Muhammad? Probably not. Do we worship the same monotheistic almighty God of Abraham? Yes

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Don't look now, but your contradicting yourself.

If God did not reveal Himself to Muhammad what then makes him a prophet of God?

All your doing is using the word Allah and saying it is the same God Christians Worship, they do not believe Jesus was the Messiah to the Jews, and that He is the only begotten son of God.

Why don't the Muslims understand that the god you are saying they worship gave the Land of Israel to the Jews?

The Spanish using the word Dios, are these people Spanish Catholics?

If they are, they are Worshiping the One True God the Father of Jesus the Savior of the world, they are Christians then, right

Muslims will not acknowledge that, as true.

 

[JIMINZ]

I don't want to say that they worship God rightly. To say that we have common ground is not to say that Muhammad was a true prophet of God. I pray seven times a day insofar as I try to speak with God as I go about my daily life. There is however an ancient Christian tradition of praying seven times a day that has been upheld by priest and religious in the Catholic, Anglican, and Orthodox traditions. If you go to a vibrant Benedictine Abbey, you will find them singing the psalms seven times a day. This is a beautiful ideal prayer that is not attainable for us living in the world, however, that does not mean we can ignore the value in it.

PS I was wrong. Muslims pray 5 times a day.

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Don't you know that because the Jews refused to receive Jesus as their Messiah, the Kingdom was taken from them and given to the Gentiles, (US) because of their disbelief?

You are a Christian only because of the refusal of their Messiah by the Jews.

 

[Apostoliclife]

Scripture is absolutely clear that Jesus is God and that He is eternal.



We give different attributes to God? Actually, it is Scripture that reveals to us God's "Triune nature." We most certainly should not personally give attributes to God, we must hold to His divinely inspired word. It is very important that we do not go against what God has revealed to us in the Bible about Himself.



The Jews do indeed acknowledge the true God, but in rejecting Jesus Christ, Who is God, they have rejected God.

As for Islam, Allah has no son, and Jesus is just a prophet, perhaps a wise teacher, but certainly not the Saviour and not God.

So, people need to be careful in claiming that Muslims worship the same God as Christians.



False.



The Jews have rejected God, because they have rejected His Son, Jesus Christ, Who is Himself God. (And is in fact foretold all through the OT Scriptures)

The Muslims say Allah has no son and reduce Jesus to simply a prophet at best.

Faith in Jesus Christ our Saviour, God incarnate, Who came in flesh (the Word became flesh and dwelt among us) to give us, who believe, eternal life, is precisely what makes a Christian a Christian and separates Christianity from all other faiths or religions.

Jesus is the only Way, Truth and Life. The majority of Jews and the Muslims reject Jesus Christ as Saviour and as God. We should be careful we don't make the claim that they are correct in any way in doing so by suggesting that we all worship the same God. (And that perhaps we can therefore put aside all differences and just come together in some kind of unity). Bottom line, those who reject Jesus Christ, reject God.

The point is, the difference between Christianity and Judaism and Islam is Jesus Christ and Who He is. That's pretty important, don't you think?

Absolutely that is the most important thing. Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Outside of Jesus there is not salvation.

Your error is that you equate right worship of God with worship of God. You say that if you don't recognize all of God's achievements and actions (his incarnation, death, and resurrection), you don't recognize God.

Let's say I'm introducing my friend Dave and I say, "This is Dave, he is an astronaut who saves kittens in his spare time," but Dave is really an accountant. I was wrong in the things I said about Dave and this may confuse people and offend Dave, but I was still referring to my friend Dave.

In the same way, Muslims talk about the true God but have wrong theology. Therefore, they tell people the wrong things about God which both confuses people and offends God. But, this does not mean that they aren't talking about God.

 

[Apostoliclife]

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Don't look now, but your contradicting yourself.

If God did not reveal Himself to Muhammad what then makes him a prophet of God?

All your doing is using the word Allah and saying it is the same God Christians Worship, they do not believe Jesus was the Messiah to the Jews, and that He is the only begotten son of God.

Why don't the Muslims understand that the god you are saying they worship gave the Land of Israel to the Jews?

The Spanish using the word Dios, are these people Spanish Catholics?

If they are, they are Worshiping the One True God the Father of Jesus the Savior of the world, they are Christians then, right

Muslims will not acknowledge that, as true.

I never tried to say that Muhammad was God's prophet. However, the Muslim religious worships the God of Abraham, the same God we worship. See my comparison above to my friend Dave.

 

[Apostoliclife]

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Don't you know that because the Jews refused to receive Jesus as their Messiah, the Kingdom was taken from them and given to the Gentiles, (US) because of their disbelief?

You are a Christian only because of the refusal of their Messiah by the Jews.

Sort of. It was always the case that blessing would come to the world through the Jews. That is in the Covenant with David. The Jews rejected Jesus but even if they hadn't, Christ would have saved us.

 

[JIMINZ]

I never tried to say that Muhammad was God's prophet. However, the Muslim religious worships the God of Abraham, the same God we worship. See my comparison above to my friend Dave.

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Ok that's a good starting point.

If Muhammad is not God's Prophet, then where did his Religious writings come from?

Who inspired Muhammad to write the Quran, (the Jewish, Christian God) or (Satan-Allah).

So, as far as I can tell then, we have a False Prophet, teaching a False Religion, about a god that he says is the god of Abraham.

What was the reason for God to start a New Religion when everything was settled by Jesus 1400 yrs before, don't that sound just a little weird to you?

I don't know who is teaching you this stuff, but you better get as far away from him, as fast as you can.

 

[JIMINZ]

Sort of. It was always the case that blessing would come to the world through the Jews. That is in the Covenant with David. The Jews rejected Jesus but even if they hadn't, Christ would have saved us.

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How so?

 

[JIMINZ]

I don't want to say that they worship God rightly. To say that we have common ground is not to say that Muhammad was a true prophet of God.

If Muslims don't Worship the same God rightly, then what makes them elegable for the same Salvation you have.

Jesus said.
Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Do they believe Jesus died for their sins the way you do?
Do they get Baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost the way you do?

If not why not?

What is their Salvation based upon?

 

[amariselle]

Absolutely that is the most important thing. Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Outside of Jesus there is not salvation.

Agreed.

Your error is that you equate right worship of God with worship of God.

That above statement doesn't even make sense. It's not true worship of the one true God if the one claiming to worship Him actually rejects Him in rejecting His only begotten Son (Who is God).

A person cannot worship God if they actually reject Him.

And it seems you have failed to understand my point. So, lets go back to what I originally said, which is that Allah (who has no son) is not the God of the Bible, the God Christians worship, the one true God. The God of the Bible has a Son, Jesus Christ, Who is Himself God; the Islamic god (Allah) does not.

You say that if you don't recognize all of God's achievements and actions (his incarnation, death, and resurrection), you don't recognize God.

Perhaps this will help clarify what I am saying:

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. - 1 John 2:18-23

4 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.- 1 John 4:1-3

God's word is abundantly clear, if a person denies the Son, they also deny the Father. It is false to claim that a person can truly worship God and yet deny Jesus Christ. Perhaps you fail to understand just how serious it is to deny Jesus Christ our Saviour.

Let's say I'm introducing my friend Dave and I say, "This is Dave, he is an astronaut who saves kittens in his spare time," but Dave is really an accountant. I was wrong in the things I said about Dave and this may confuse people and offend Dave, but I was still referring to my friend Dave.

It's very troubling that you would equate denying Christ Jesus our Saviour, God incarnate, the only hope of salvation, with getting some detail about your friend wrong.

Not even close to the same thing. As I said, perhaps you fail to understand that Scripture is clear, denying Jesus Christ is denying God.

In the same way, Muslims talk about the true God but have wrong theology. Therefore, they tell people the wrong things about God which both confuses people and offends God. But, this does not mean that they aren't talking about God.

Again, you must remember what Scripture tells us about denying Jesus Christ. You make it sound like the denial of Jesus Christ as God and Saviour, (the only hope of salvation) is not that big of a deal. Scripture couldn't be more clear on how false that is.

A denial of Jesus Christ is a denial of God.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

If you want to use God's son as a reason to say that Muslims don't worship the same God, they you also need to say that Jews don't worship the same God as the Christians.

Jews don't worship the same God.

If you say this, then you have to deny that the Old Testament speaks about the one, true God.

No, I don't. Anyone who has seen the Son has seen the Father. The Jews saw Jesus and some of them recognized him for what he was, and others did not. The people that we call Jews, now, are the ones who did not. The ones who did are called Christians.

While we're all here, together, debating what we think about God, it will seem that we all have different ideas about who he is, but when Christ returns some of us will see our savior, and others will see something terrible that they did not expect. There's a huge difference between misunderstanding God and understanding the wrong god. Jesus was the definitive fulcrum upon which everything pivots. If you disagree, then I might suggest that you need to get to know Jesus. It's that simple.

 

[Apostoliclife]

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Ok that's a good starting point.

If Muhammad is not God's Prophet, then where did his Religious writings come from?

Who inspired Muhammad to write the Quran, (the Jewish, Christian God) or (Satan-Allah).

So, as far as I can tell then, we have a False Prophet, teaching a False Religion, about a god that he says is the god of Abraham.

What was the reason for God to start a New Religion when everything was settled by Jesus 1400 yrs before, don't that sound just a little weird to you?

I don't know who is teaching you this stuff, but you better get as far away from him, as fast as you can.

What religious are you referring to? Islam was founded in the 7th century. God did not found Islam. Islam is wrong. It portraits God incorrectly and thus could not be God truly revealing himself. However, like I said before, it could well be a religion that worships the true God incorrectly. I mean. They worship God but they have the wrong ideas about who God is.

 

[Apostoliclife]

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How so?

I don't know because it didn't happen that way. Also, I was actually remembering the Ambrahamic Covenant when God says "And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee; and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed" (Gen 12:3). God promised to bring about blessing for all families of the Earth through the nation of Israel even before the Jews rejected Jesus.

 

[Apostoliclife]

If Muslims don't Worship the same God rightly, then what makes them elegable for the same Salvation you have.

Jesus said.
Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Do they believe Jesus died for their sins the way you do?
Do they get Baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost the way you do?

If not why not?

What is their Salvation based upon?

If they are saved is a much bigger question than if they worship the same God. I suppose it comes down to whether you believe unbaptized can be saved, but that seems like a question for its own thread.

 

[JIMINZ]

What religious are you referring to? Islam was founded in the 7th century. God did not found Islam. Islam is wrong. It portraits God incorrectly and thus could not be God truly revealing himself. However, like I said before, it could well be a religion that worships the true God incorrectly. I mean. They worship God but they have the wrong ideas about who God is.

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If God did not found Islam, it is Not of God, it is a False Religion with a False Prophet.

John 8:19
Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

John 14:7
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

John 15:23
He that hateth me hateth my Father also.

Islam does not know Jesus as the only begotten Son of God, and the Savior of the world, THEREFORE, they do not know the Father the Creator of the Universe that sent Him.

It isn't that that are just doing it incorrectly, they deny the one true God and His Son

 

[Apostoliclife]

Agreed.



That above statement doesn't even make sense. It's not true worship of the one true God if the one claiming to worship Him actually rejects Him in rejecting His only begotten Son (Who is God).

A person cannot worship God if they actually reject Him.

And it seems you have failed to understand my point. So, lets go back to what I originally said, which is that Allah (who has no son) is not the God of the Bible, the God Christians worship, the one true God. The God of the Bible has a Son, Jesus Christ, Who is Himself God; the Islamic god (Allah) does not.



Perhaps this will help clarify what I am saying:

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. - 1 John 2:18-23

4 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.- 1 John 4:1-3

God's word is abundantly clear, if a person denies the Son, they also deny the Father. It is false to claim that a person can truly worship God and yet deny Jesus Christ. Perhaps you fail to understand just how serious it is to deny Jesus Christ our Saviour.



It's very troubling that you would equate denying Christ Jesus our Saviour, God incarnate, the only hope of salvation, with getting some detail about your friend wrong.

Not even close to the same thing. As I said, perhaps you fail to understand that Scripture is clear, denying Jesus Christ is denying God.



Again, you must remember what Scripture tells us about denying Jesus Christ. You make it sound like the denial of Jesus Christ as God and Saviour, (the only hope of salvation) is not that big of a deal. Scripture couldn't be more clear on how false that is.

A denial of Jesus Christ is a denial of God.

I used the story of Dave as an analogy. I'm sorry that it upset you but the only way we can speak about God is through analogy (God is my rock, Jesus is the light, etc)

I suppose it helps to understand how the devil works. Only God creates. Devil cannot create; he can only pervert. To turn people away from God, it is harder to turn them to a totally new god (creating a god) than to pervert the worship of God.

This is what we find in Islam, it is a perversion of the worship of the true God. But it is not the worship of a new God.

 

[Apostoliclife]

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If God did not found Islam, it is Not of God, it is a False Religion with a False Prophet.

John 8:19
Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

John 14:7
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

John 15:23
He that hateth me hateth my Father also.

Islam does not know Jesus as the only begotten Son of God, and the Savior of the world, THEREFORE, they do not know the Father the Creator of the Universe that sent Him.

It isn't that that are just doing it incorrectly, they deny the one true God and His Son

You are right in that they do not truly know God because they deny Jesus. However, their religion is an attempt (albiet a failure) to worship and know the true God. If you want to deny that they worship the same God, you have to deny that they worship at all.

 

[JIMINZ]

This is what we find in Islam, it is a perversion of the worship of the true God. But it is not the worship of a new God.

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Why because they call this false god Allah?

 

[amariselle]

I used the story of Dave as an analogy. I'm sorry that it upset you but the only way we can speak about God is through analogy (God is my rock, Jesus is the light, etc)

First of all, I am not "upset." Secondly, we should speak of Jesus precisely as Scripture speaks of Him.

I suppose it helps to understand how the devil works. Only God creates. Devil cannot create; he can only pervert. To turn people away from God, it is harder to turn them to a totally new god (creating a god) than to pervert the worship of God.

Actually, Scripture does warn of "another Jesus"; "another Gospel", and "another Spirit."

But, you are correct in that the devil twists things. Satan is the "father of lies." And he can even "masquerade as an angel of light."

And many do indeed worship a totally different god.

This is what we find in Islam, it is a perversion of the worship of the true God. But it is not the worship of a new God.

What we find in Islam is a denial of Jesus Christ (God incarnate) the Saviour. Thus, what we find in Islam is a denial of the true God.

 

[David Kent]

Have you ever wondered why Mosques always have a crescent moon? It is because they worship Allah the ancient moon god of the Arabians.