Interesting

[King Mob]

In regard to the Stephen Fry thread. Something which has been pestering me for some time.

Is there any adherents of religion within this forum that would be prepared to condemn their god?

 

[Robban]

In regard to the Stephen Fry thread. Something which has been pestering me for some time.

Is there any adherents of religion within this forum that would be prepared to condemn their god?

Job,s wife made the suggestion,

 

[Robban]

An intresting observation perhaps is,

In this part of the so called "secularised" World,

when the ride gets bumpy and the situation is difficult, no explaination, seemingly no solution, it is common to say, "It is Jobbig"

Presumably referring to Job.

Also something like Jobs wife suggestion,

"Then go buy a spade and bury yourself."


Which does not bring Comfort or solution.
(But it can be a Wake up call)

 

[Bungle_Bear]

An intresting observation perhaps is,

In this part of the so called "secularised" World,

when the ride gets bumpy and the situation is difficult, no explaination, seemingly no solution, it is common to say, "It is Jobbig"

Presumably referring to Job.

Also something like Jobs wife suggestion,

"Then go buy a spade and bury yourself."


Which does not bring Comfort or solution.
(But it can be a Wake up call)

Sorry, Robban, I have absolutely no idea what any of that is supposed to mean

 

[Robban]

Sorry, Robban, I have absolutely no idea what any of that is supposed to mean

That,s OK as well,

Some things take time,

Like digesting or chewing the cud and at the same time having cloven hooves.

I am sorry too, that I cannot express myself in a way in which you would "get it" in a jiff.

 

[Star Adept]

In regard to the Stephen Fry thread. Something which has been pestering me for some time.

Is there any adherents of religion within this forum that would be prepared to condemn their god?

I'm not sure I'm the person to be answering this, because I don't have a God to condemn. I'm assuming you mean to ask if anyone who is set in their faith be changed? I do not believe in God, but in coming to this site, I'm having revelations as to what "God" means to me. I am willing to condemn my faith that there is nothing more than biology. I am becoming spiritually fulfilled.

I think the problem is that Believers already have an answer. And when they have questions beyond that, they have a source to turn to. Non-believers are lost in the world, and choosing one arbitrary source over another is the hardest thing for us to do, especially the extremely logical.

I do wish they'd be more open-minded.

An intresting observation perhaps is,

In this part of the so called "secularised" World,

when the ride gets bumpy and the situation is difficult, no explaination, seemingly no solution, it is common to say, "It is Jobbig"

Presumably referring to Job.

Also something like Jobs wife suggestion,

"Then go buy a spade and bury yourself."


Which does not bring Comfort or solution.
(But it can be a Wake up call)

Jobbig - Swedish - onerous, arduous, difficult, tiring, requiring or using a lot of energy or strength

"presumably"... 3 seconds on Google, man. Do not presume anything.

 

[Robban]

I'm not sure I'm the person to be answering this, because I don't have a God to condemn. I'm assuming you mean to ask if anyone who is set in their faith be changed? I do not believe in God, but in coming to this site, I'm having revelations as to what "God" means to me. I am willing to condemn my faith that there is nothing more than biology. I am becoming spiritually fulfilled.

I think the problem is that Believers already have an answer. And when they have questions beyond that, they have a source to turn to. Non-believers are lost in the world, and choosing one arbitrary source over another is the hardest thing for us to do, especially the extremely logical.

I do wish they'd be more open-minded.

big - Swedish - onerous, arduous, difficult, tiring, requiring or using a lot of energy or strength

"presumably"... 3 seconds on Google, man. Do not presume anything.

I know what "Jobbig" means without Google,

Why a Word is used commonplace, or where it came from and why it is used in a certain situation.

 

[Robban]

Btw Star adept,

I have yet to bump into a "grammar nazi" here in the UK part of the forum.

Am thinking that either" he does not know he talking about" or they see between their fingers with it.

Which is one reason why I keep to the Uk part.

 

[Star Adept]

I know what "Jobbig" means without Google,

Why a Word is used commonplace, or where it came from and why it is used in a certain situation.

You're right. I misconstrued your words as seeming like you didn't understand, and that was a presumption I'm sorry.

Btw Star adept,

I have yet to bump into a "grammar nazi" here in the UK part of the forum.

Am thinking that either" he does not know he talking about" or they see between their fingers with it.

Which is one reason why I keep to the Uk part.

Really? I've always known the UK to be more easy-going than us. Well, this is what one looks like lol. I used to be a writer by trade and there are a lot of illiterate people in the US. I said it harshly, but my intention was not to bash him, it was an effort to get him to look up words before he used them. But I was wrong. You may also have never seen someone own up to mistakes outside of the UK, I'm that person too. I hope this doesn't scare you off.

 

[Robban]

You're right. I misconstrued your words as seeming like you didn't understand, and that was a presumption I'm sorry.



Really? I've always known the UK to be more easy-going than us. Well, this is what one looks like lol. I used to be a writer by trade and there are a lot of illiterate people in the US. I said it harshly, but my intention was not to bash him, it was an effort to get him to look up words before he used them. But I was wrong. You may also have never seen someone own up to mistakes outside of the UK, I'm that person too. I hope this doesn't scare you off.

Haha, no, I try to get better at Writing, like to Think I,m geeting there,

Before getting a computer, for me five Words on a postcard was something of an achievement.

And welcome to this part of the forum,

 

[King Mob]

Interesting we have five responses but none in regard to the question.

Let me rephrase for clarity.

Take the analogy of a beautiful sunset, a believer may look at this phenomenon and credit it to their god -absolutely fine. However, when we witness atrocity shouldn't that same believer condemn that in the same manner as they credit the very same god with the beautiful sunset?

 

[Star Adept]

No. I just came off a thread where I have received some enlightenment. I am a non-believer, but I will put it in Christian words. He has given us a world that is both good and evil. We cannot appreciate the beauty of a sunset, if there is no atrocity to compare it to. How boring would the sunset be if that was the least beautiful thing in our world? In this, He gives us the ability to appreciate all that is good that He has given us.

What value would you give to someone helping an old lady across the street if immoral people who would pass her by didn't exist?

 

[King Mob]

No. I just came off a thread where I have received some enlightenment. I am a non-believer, but I will put it in Christian words. He has given us a world that is both good and evil. We cannot appreciate the beauty of a sunset, if there is no atrocity to compare it to. How boring would the sunset be if that was the least beautiful thing in our world? In this, He gives us the ability to appreciate all that is good that He has given us.

What value would you give to someone helping an old lady across the street if immoral people who would pass her by didn't exist?

Kinda sums the entire point, there is no external `force` everything comes from within humanity. Yes I can certainly concur with that.

So we have it straight from a theist, it's humanity, humanity created and it's the individuals faith which retains `god` as a concept.

 

[Robban]

Kinda sums the entire point, there is no external `force` everything comes from within humanity. Yes I can certainly concur with that.

So we have it straight from a theist, it's humanity, humanity created and it's the individuals faith which retains `god` as a concept.

If humanity has made a mess, then it is humanity,s job to Clean it up.
God is not our errand boy.

But He is available to give us pointers as to which way to choose.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

No. I just came off a thread where I have received some enlightenment. I am a non-believer, but I will put it in Christian words. He has given us a world that is both good and evil. We cannot appreciate the beauty of a sunset, if there is no atrocity to compare it to. How boring would the sunset be if that was the least beautiful thing in our world? In this, He gives us the ability to appreciate all that is good that He has given us.

What value would you give to someone helping an old lady across the street if immoral people who would pass her by didn't exist?

You said it yourself - he (apparently) gave us the good and the evil. So why does he only get credit for the good? Why no responsibility for the evil, too?

 

[King Mob]

If humanity has made a mess, then it is humanity,s job to Clean it up.
God is not our errand boy.

But He is available to give us pointers as to which way to choose.

If you can point in the evidential direction where your god has bothered his
a--e to intervene in anything attributed to humanity then I would be fascinated?

 

[Robban]

If you can point in the evidential direction where your god has bothered his
a--e to intervene in anything attributed to humanity then I would be fascinated?

If a decree is issued from above, there are agents to carry it out.

A Little half fun bit,
if you are at the beach and you drop your icecream in the sand, don,t be angry, because, nothing just happens.

A leaf does not fall from a tree unless it is His will.

 

[Danny777]

In regard to the Stephen Fry thread. Something which has been pestering me for some time.

Is there any adherents of religion within this forum that would be prepared to condemn their god?

The suggestion that a created being could 'condemn' their Creator is absurd to me.

As stated in the other thread, God created mankind with the free-will and capacity for both good and bad - if there were no capacity for good and bad, there would be no free-will. It went bad and still is - he then provided a rescuer in the form of Jesus Christ and the promise of a future restoration. It doesn't matter how many graphic examples you use of atrocities man perpetrates on man, I will not condemn God, when it is the fault of man. Every man has a rescuer if they choose to accept. There is much I do not understand - I will find out, but God who knows far more than is a far better position to know the big picture than me.

For me, death is not the end - it's the beginning...this provides immense hope and comfort. For the atheist, death is the end and life is ultimately pointless...

 

[Bungle_Bear]

As stated in the other thread, God created mankind with the free-will and capacity for both good and bad - if there were no capacity for good and bad, there would be no free-will. It went bad and still is - he then provided a rescuer in the form of Jesus Christ and the promise of a future restoration. It doesn't matter how many graphic examples you use of atrocities man perpetrates on man, I will not condemn God, when it is the fault of man.

I find it incredible that you have this obvious double standard but cannot see it - God made mankind with the ability to do good and evil and God has allowed (even put?) evil in the world but you blame mankind for acting as God designed him.

Did you see the story in the paper of the robot vacuum cleaner which sucked up the woman's hair? Was that the fault of the vacuum cleaner or the designer?

 

[Danny777]

I find it incredible that you have this obvious double standard but cannot see it - God made mankind with the ability to do good and evil and God has allowed (even put?) evil in the world but you blame mankind for acting as God designed him.

Did you see the story in the paper of the robot vacuum cleaner which sucked up the woman's hair? Was that the fault of the vacuum cleaner or the designer?

The robot vacuum cleaner does not have 'free will'-just preprogrammed responses. This is why it is called a robot. This vacuum cleaner never makes a true decision-every vacuum cleaner will respond in the way it is programmed by the designer to any situation.

Humans are not robots and can make genuine choices. Hence, we respond in a variety of ways to the same situation-we have free will. We do not have to commit evil or good actions-we choose to. If everyone always responded the same way to choices of morality we could rightly blame God for wiring us to do evil. Hiwever, this is not the case...