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Interesting view on Abortion - Please Participate (FOR EVERY MEMBERS OF THE FORUM)

Archivist

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geocajun said:
maybe you can't agree... but God's created that person. Its clear enough to me.

The polls show that the American public is split on this issue. Are you proposing that we should let you decide for others?

Are you American before your Christian?

The United States is a secular nation. I personally would not have an abortion if I were a woman unless my life or health were threatened or I was a victim of rape or incest.

"maybe" ?

Yes, maybe. Perhaps you believe that it is acceptable to force your views on others but I don't feel that way. It is a matter that remains between the woman and God.

abortion is not 'lawful' - it may not be illegal in our errored system of law, but that will be corrected.

Abortion is currently lawful in the US. Who is going to "correct" it? We have had a conservative Supreme Court for over 20 years but Roe remains the law.

Either way, any crime against humanity, does not cease to be a moral crime, simply because its legal in the secular system. Again, are you American before Christian

Abortion is a crime against humanity only in your mind. What international authority supports you on this? Again, I decide for myself based on my Christian views, but I do not decide for others based on those views.
 
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geocajun said:
The Catholic Church.

The Roman Catholic Church is just that, a church. While it is international, it is not an international authority.
 
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geocajun

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Archivist said:
The Roman Catholic Church is just that, a church. While it is international, it is not an international authority.
ummm, OK, its its own state, and a member of the UN, and has 1.2 billion adherents.
Its the oldest institution on the planet, and the largest Church in the world.
It is an international authority.
 
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Archivist

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geocajun said:
ummm, OK, its its own state, and a member of the UN, and has 1.2 billion adherents.
Its the oldest institution on the planet, and the largest Church in the world.
It is an international authority.

An international authority, such as the UN or the OAS, draws its power from multiple states. The Roman Catholic Church does not do. The Pope has no authority over me.

The US is its own state, is a member of the UN and has a population of 294,447,720. That does does not make it an international authority.
 
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geocajun

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Archivist said:
An international authority, such as the UN or the OAS, draws its power from multiple states. The Roman Catholic Church does not do. The Pope has no authority over me.

The US is its own state, is a member of the UN and has a population of 294,447,720. That does does not make it an international authority.
The vatican has authority over me, and all of its 1.2 billion adherents in the world.
In fact, thats something that no other authority in the world, including the UN can claim.
Its more of a universal, international authority, than anything else.
And, that, is because, She was founded by Jesus.
 
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IsraelSarah

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Jeremiah 1: 5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee;

thats all He has to say about that

but i will say this those who have an abortion are gonna have an abortion;
given the option and unction to not...if they do they do and God is in control of that too MERCY MERCY MERCY on their souls.

THIS IS BEFORE THE BELLY get it before you were concieved you were precious to Him
Psalm 139 :)
 
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jesusfreak3786

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Jeremiah 1: 5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee;

thats all He has to say about that

but i will say this those who have an abortion are gonna have an abortion;
given the option and unction to not...if they do they do and God is in control of that too MERCY MERCY MERCY on their souls.

THIS IS BEFORE THE BELLY get it before you were concieved you were precious to Him
Psalm 139 :)
Right on!!!

Also I have to apolegise for getting off the topic in earlyer posts. I realized it was unesassary before I saw it was deleted. Thank you for deleting it. I am not agianst catholics. I do think abortion is a sin though.:blush:
 
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geocajun

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jesusfreak3786 said:
Right on!!!

Also I have to apolegise for getting off the topic in earlyer posts. I realized it was unesassary before I saw it was deleted. Thank you for deleting it. I am not agianst catholics. I do think abortion is a sin though.:blush:
the Catholic Church teaches that abortion is a sin, so you very much agree with Her on this.
 
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wonderboy92577

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All4one said:
*The surgical nurse stated that, depending on the age of the child, they many times used suction cups to collapse the baby and remove it. After this she take the cups back to a lab and seperates the babys parts such as eyes, legs, finger and makes sure they are all accounted for and none are left in the female.

Well what else are they supposed to do? Not count and perhaps leave some behind to fester and cause infection? We could talk about the girsly nature of autopsies and accomplish as much in this argument as the above paragraph has.

All4one said:
* The Nurse and Dr. both agreed that the abortions were many times proportional or directly related to breast cancer on down the road. This seems logical as Gods natural process would take breasts away if a child were not accepted.

How ridiculous. As the former spouse of an OBGYN and the current student of an oncological nurse, I say that's a bunch of malarky. Let's see the studies on that: I've never heard anything so silly in my life.

All4one said:
* The Dr. made an interesting statement that these people that are pro-choice will soon be the same people who have control over our lives when we are old and "incapable" of thinking for ourselves. Meaning if they would not spare a child then why would they care about an old prune?

That is an invalid and incontextual comparison if ever one has been made. Children and adults are entirely different, from the medical and nursing perspectives (and that's just for starters).

All4one said:
* Statistics show that many women think that after having an abortion they can just simply go and have children later but because of the process many times the fertility process is shut down.

Ha, let's see some hard facts. This is not as often the outcome as one is led to believe.

All4one said:
* Despite these odds a lady one time had come for her fourth abortion and the Dr's. refused to do it because it would kill her. Anything that kills the body like this is not meant to be. Smoking, abortion, Pre-marital sex, sin!

Sunshine kills. So does the winter cold, and so do many bacterial illnesses and virii that existed before Man had the technology to put them in check. Even water, when consumed in excess, kills the body...your sweeping generalization is as are most: overreaching and illogical.

All4one said:
* The nurse made the comment that only half of Christians are registered to vote and only half of those actually vote. She said this is a very crucial year as anyone can tell we are running the fence and are very unstable. Voting is important here. If you feel strongly about abortion Christians then do something about it by voting. I used to think that whatever happens happens as far as elections go but it our very votes that makes "whatever happens" happen.

And pray tell, where did "the nurse" get these facts?

This post (that I am quoting) seems to be a lot of talk and allusion, but no hard facts or evidence. Most blatantly lacking, tho, is logic. People who proscribe to this kind of thinking are, I feel, those who are quick to point out the speck in their neighbor's eye.

Each to his own business, I say, and let it be between each person and God.
 
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geocajun

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wonderboy92577 said:
How ridiculous. As the former spouse of an OBGYN and the current student of an oncological nurse, I say that's a bunch of malarky. Let's see the studies on that: I've never heard anything so silly in my life.
I think you'd be suprised what you and your spouses and teachers aren't learning in medical school....

below are a few resources to help you study this:
Medical Groups Recognizing Link

A list of medical organizations recognizing a link between abortion and breast cancer is provided below. Telling women their abortions are related to increased breast cancer risk is clearly not good for the fundraising business. These organizations are not motivated by profit. Their members do not perform abortions.

National Physicians Center for Family Resources
P.O. Box 59692
Birmingham, AL 35259
205/870-0234
www.physicianscenter.org

The National Physicians Center for Family Resources offers a CD intended for parents and health educators which cites "increased breast cancer risk" as a "long-term complication of abortion" and offers a biological explanation for the abortion-breast cancer link. The CD is entitled, "Prescriptions for Parents: A Physicians' Guide to Adolescence and Sex."

Catholic Medical Association
2020 Pennsylvania Ave. NW, #864
Washington, DC 20006
Tel: 1-877-CATHDOC (877-228-4362)
www.cathmed.org

"Whereas epidemiological evidence of an association between abortion and
breast cancer has existed for almost a half century,

"Whereas 29 our ot 38 worldwide epidemiological studies show an increased
risk of breat cancer of approximately 30% among women who have had an
abortion,

"Whereas all women undergoing abortion are entitled to full informed consent
as to all risks including long term risks,

"Therefore be it resolved that the Catholic Medical Association endorses the
passage of state legislation to require abortionists to inform all women of
their future increased vulnerability to breast cancer."

Resolution Approved 10/15/03

American Association of Pro-Life Obstetricians and Gynecologists
844 South Washington, Suite 1600
Holland, MI 49423
616-546-2639
www.aaplog.org

AAPLOG has posted a position statement about the ABC link on its website.

Breast Cancer Prevention Institute
9 Vassar St.
Poughkeepsie, NY 12601
845/452-0797
www.bcpinstitute.org

The Polycarp Research Institute
2232 Second Avenue
Altoona, PA 16602
www.polycarp.org


img1.gif
Medical Groups Supporting Disclosure of Research
Association of American Physicians and Surgeons
1601 N. Tucson Blvd., Suite 9
Tucson, AZ 85716-3450
520-323-3110

"The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons believes that patients have the right to give or withhold fully informed consent before undergoing medical treatment. This includes notification of potential adverse effects. While there is a difference of medical opinion concerning the abortion breast cancer link, there is a considerable volume of evidence supporting this link, which is, moreover, highly plausible. We believe that a reasonable person would want to be informed of the existence of this evidence before making her decision."

Jane Orient, MD
Executive Director
October 27, 2003

Read Mrs. Malec's article, "The Abortion-Breast Cancer Link: How Politics
Trumped Science and Informed Consent," in the Journal of American Physicians
and Surgeons: www.jpands.org/vol8no2/malec

img1.gif
Medical Groups in Need of Political Courage

Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists

American Medical Association- A spokesman for the AMA told World Net Daily that its group "doesn't have a policy at all" on whether its doctors should inform women about the abortion-breast cancer research. [John Dougherty, "Can doctors be sued over abortion? Those who don't inform patients of breast cancer link could be targets,"
World Net Daily March 27, 2002.
Available at: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26970
Visited October 8, 2003.

American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists

American Society of Breast Surgeons

Miami Breast Cancer Conference

All Cancer Groups
http://www.abortionbreastcancer.com/newsletter102202.htm
http://www.abortionbreastcancer.com/050902.htm






Sunshine kills. So does the winter cold, and so do many bacterial illnesses and virii that existed before Man had the technology to put them in check. Even water, when consumed in excess, kills the body...your sweeping generalization is as are most: overreaching and illogical.
is that actually the best response you could come up with? "Sunshine kills. . . so why not have an abortion?"
 
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pthalomarie

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geocajun said:
PL, so at best you could say that the experts disagree on the matter huh?
No, that's not what it says.

To quote from the article:

"The results of this study confirm earlier research showing that having an abortion does not increase a woman's risk of breast cancer.
Along with the conclusions of the 2003 NCI Expert Panel, this study challenges other studies claiming that abortion increases breast cancer risk. Such claims were based on flawed evidence and methods."
 
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geocajun

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pthalomarie said:
No, that's not what it says.

To quote from the article:

"The results of this study confirm earlier research showing that having an abortion does not increase a woman's risk of breast cancer.
Along with the conclusions of the 2003 NCI Expert Panel, this study challenges other studies claiming that abortion increases breast cancer risk. Such claims were based on flawed evidence and methods."
so of course you would have to dismiss all of this right?

National Physicians Center for Family Resources
P.O. Box 59692
Birmingham, AL 35259
205/870-0234
www.physicianscenter.org

The National Physicians Center for Family Resources offers a CD intended for parents and health educators which cites "increased breast cancer risk" as a "long-term complication of abortion" and offers a biological explanation for the abortion-breast cancer link. The CD is entitled, "Prescriptions for Parents: A Physicians' Guide to Adolescence and Sex."

Catholic Medical Association
2020 Pennsylvania Ave. NW, #864
Washington, DC 20006
Tel: 1-877-CATHDOC (877-228-4362)
www.cathmed.org

"Whereas epidemiological evidence of an association between abortion and
breast cancer has existed for almost a half century,

"Whereas 29 our ot 38 worldwide epidemiological studies show an increased
risk of breat cancer of approximately 30% among women who have had an
abortion,

"Whereas all women undergoing abortion are entitled to full informed consent
as to all risks including long term risks,

"Therefore be it resolved that the Catholic Medical Association endorses the
passage of state legislation to require abortionists to inform all women of
their future increased vulnerability to breast cancer."

Resolution Approved 10/15/03

American Association of Pro-Life Obstetricians and Gynecologists
844 South Washington, Suite 1600
Holland, MI 49423
616-546-2639
www.aaplog.org

AAPLOG has posted a position statement about the ABC link on its website.

Breast Cancer Prevention Institute
9 Vassar St.
Poughkeepsie, NY 12601
845/452-0797
www.bcpinstitute.org

The Polycarp Research Institute
2232 Second Avenue
Altoona, PA 16602
www.polycarp.org


img1.gif

Medical Groups Supporting Disclosure of Research
Association of American Physicians and Surgeons
1601 N. Tucson Blvd., Suite 9
Tucson, AZ 85716-3450
520-323-3110

"The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons believes that patients have the right to give or withhold fully informed consent before undergoing medical treatment. This includes notification of potential adverse effects. While there is a difference of medical opinion concerning the abortion breast cancer link, there is a considerable volume of evidence supporting this link, which is, moreover, highly plausible. We believe that a reasonable person would want to be informed of the existence of this evidence before making her decision."

Jane Orient, MD
Executive Director
October 27, 2003

Read Mrs. Malec's article, "The Abortion-Breast Cancer Link: How Politics
Trumped Science and Informed Consent," in the Journal of American Physicians
and Surgeons: www.jpands.org/vol8no2/malec

img1.gif

Medical Groups in Need of Political Courage

Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists

American Medical Association- A spokesman for the AMA told World Net Daily that its group "doesn't have a policy at all" on whether its doctors should inform women about the abortion-breast cancer research. [John Dougherty, "Can doctors be sued over abortion? Those who don't inform patients of breast cancer link could be targets,"
World Net Daily March 27, 2002.
Available at: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26970
Visited October 8, 2003.

American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists

American Society of Breast Surgeons

Miami Breast Cancer Conference

All Cancer Groups
http://www.abortionbreastcancer.com/newsletter102202.htm
http://www.abortionbreastcancer.com/050902.htm
 
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