Interesting view on Abortion - Please Participate (FOR EVERY MEMBERS OF THE FORUM)

[All4one]

...abortion is wrong for me..in my walk with God, I have come to the definate conclusion that even in rape/incest, I know that God would want me to use His strength to give life ....love is the answer for all things...besides, whenever we do things for the love of God over self, He rewards us....in Gods love, Mona

Praise God!!!!!!!

You and I are on the same page. Keep going strong! God bless you.

And yet again!!!!!!

in that case, lets just make everything legal, and let God sort it all out huh?
here's hoping we all aren't murdered today!

Praise *HIM* for understanding!


Lillithspeak

even though he killed thousands of infants and embryo's himself, and yet they aren't willing to let God handle the problem.

Hmmmmmmmm- So letting God handle the problem is allowing human beings (people) to kill them right? One more fact we are overlooking here and a very casual fact that people don't seem to understand. God made us! Therefor WHATEVER He does is just. We did not make ourselves. The fact of the matter is that God is not terrible but amazing... amazing that He would love us in spite of the fact that we reject Him. Many want to speak of how wrong God is when they live in a very nice house, drive a nice car, have nice neighbors, have a computer to type on, and enough to afford internet. WOW! Praise God that He is THAT God and not a god that would allow demons to just rip us apart at moments notice and have pleasure from it. HE CREATED US, THANK GOD HE IS THE WAY HE IS!

In Christ,
All4one

BTW- Thank God that He forgives those who want to throw away His gifts of children. Thank God that He forgives us for putting something here today gone tomorrow over the worth of human life.

 

[AdJesumPerMariam]

It's still amazing to me that the mom that loses a child due to miscarriage, or fetal demise, thinks of their child as a child & the mom that gets an abortion in ANY stage thinks of their child as a "blob"

 

[geocajun]

It's still amazing to me that the mom that loses a child due to miscarriage, or fetal demise, thinks of their child as a child & the mom that gets an abortion in ANY stage thinks of their child as a "blob"

Good point.

 

[mawuvi]

It's still amazing to me that the mom that loses a child due to miscarriage, or fetal demise, thinks of their child as a child & the mom that gets an abortion in ANY stage thinks of their child as a "blob"

I agree excellent observation. What a bunch of hypocrites humans are

 

[Prince Lucianus]

I disagree.

People who have chosen to have an abortion don't think this at all.
Having an abortion is not the simple step you all make it out to be. It's a difficult decision (although for the minority, the blob point might be a true observation) which is totally oversimplified by dede10's remark.

Lucy

 

[All4one]

It's still amazing to me that the mom that loses a child due to miscarriage, or fetal demise, thinks of their child as a child & the mom that gets an abortion in ANY stage thinks of their child as a "blob"

Agreed, very nice point. If a mother who has an abortion really thinks of it as a child then why do they do it? The argument contradicts itself. So a person looks at it as a child, yet aborts it, and says it did not have feelings anyways? Looks like a view to me?

 

[flicka]

I disagree.

People who have chosen to have an abortion don't think this at all.
Having an abortion is not the simple step you all make it out to be. It's a difficult decision (although for the minority, the blob point might be a true observation) which is totally oversimplified by dede10's remark.

Lucy

You are correct. With abortion, or any other highly controversial topic, oversimplification is the name of the game. When anyone starts a sentence with "Whats so hard about...?" or "Why can't people just...?", I know I'm talking to a brick wall.


People tend to assume their personal thought and feelings should be shared by everyone else without realizing that each of us has different life experiences and world views that shape us. Never mind different ideas about God or religion in general.


But it does keep the forums interesting!

 

[holyorders]

You are correct. With abortion, or any other highly controversial topic, oversimplification is the name of the game. When anyone starts a sentence with "Whats so hard about...?" or "Why can't people just...?", I know I'm talking to a brick wall.


People tend to assume their personal thought and feelings should be shared by everyone else without realizing that each of us has different life experiences and world views that shape us. Never mind different ideas about God or religion in general.


But it does keep the forums interesting!

What you call to everyone on "personal thoughts and feelings" is being applied to the pro-abortionists. The thing is is that pro-abortionists "assume personal thoughts and feelings" about a life that is being imperically judged on as being worthless, unconvienient, or a "choice" to "legally" kill/dispose. The wisest answer I think is to not make a "choice" because we do not truly know what we would be doing.

God Bless
holyorders

 

[tsai001]

I don't think that anyone would argue if the fetus is alive, the multiplying of cells through meiosis is proof of life. A christian morality suggests that killing human life is wrong in all cases, therefore, froma christian perspective abortion is morally wrong. However, living in a secular society, it seems as though we need to use a utilitarian type of ethics, and the issue of abortion hinges on sentience. When does the fetus begin to feel, this arguement is best laid out by Peter Singer. In a personal sense it is correct to take the position of your faith, but in a global sense it is correct to take the utilitarian position.

 

[Caprice]

Hi, all... just chiming in (this is the first time I saw this thread) and I have a couple points I'd like to express.

I think most reasonable people on any side of the issue would agree that the fertilized egg is a "life." Heck, even a sperm would be considered a "life." What is considered "life" is not really the issue.

Just honesty here tcampen, I'm not convinced that sperm would be considered life because it does not cary out metabolic processes that are required for life (the ability to consume resources, grow, and dispose of wastes for example). It is also arguable that since a sperm cell does not actually have DNA (only half of a DNA) then it also could not be considered in and of itself life.

anyone who believes personhood begins at conception, should be against procedures like in vitro fertilization, where a number of fertilized eggs are necessarily destroyed. Or, if abortions should be criminalized to protect the life and health of the fertilized egg, then so should any high risk behavior by the pregnant mother, such as smoking, drinking alcohol, taking certain (legal) drugs, living in structures with exposed asbstos, etc.

Hey, ya hit the nail on the head with these points. Exactly how I feel. Just a point tho, most people I know that are "cool" with in vitro have no idea that so many of the zygotes are destroyed in the process.

Personally I think you can't be against abortion, but have no problem with killing cows (or other animals) who are more sentient than a foetus.

Cows are not sentient... period... they are not self aware, they do not actually "think" any more than to act apon instincts. To the best of my understanding there are no sentient life forms on earth besides human beings. I will agree tho that in many ways a vegitarian life style would be better for us in many ways, but I for one cannot afford to feed my family in that manner when more "conventional" means exist for 1/8th the price in my locality.

So cutting down plants is wrong as well?
In this opinion, killing anything alive is inherently wrong.
If you agree to this, then I can agree with your statement. If you don't, then I don't get it.

No, killing human life (murder) is what is being argued as wrong. It is impossible to sustain life without destroying life in the process of creating useable resources (food). It is my opinion that you are thinking too hard so that you can justify your point.

Define irresponsibility. Is contraceptive failure irresponsibility? I think not. Many abortions are a consequence of ignorance -- lack of information about contraception (getting it and using it,) to include not knowing under what circumstanecs contraception may be rendered ineffective.

If one does not know how to properly use the contraceptive, then yes it is irresponsibility in my opinion. What sexually active person does not know how to obtain a contraseptive? Sheesh... Also, if one is not prepared to handle the possible consequence of sex (procreation) wouldn't it be logical to abstain?

Cancer is living cells. Should we not excise it because it lives.

While cancer may be living cells (and techincally living human cells, albeit damaged / mutated), cancer is not an example of a life form in and of itself. I think you are thinking too hard trying to find a way to justify your point.

I have chosen to remain out of the multi-page tirade regarding women's rape-rates and such as it holds no significant bearing on my feelings toward wrether women should be allowed to abort children from rape cases.

Whatever has happened to a person, it is NEVER the baby' fault.

Agreed totaly.

To Me Abortion Is Murder Nobody Has The Right To Kill Something Created By God Except God He Is The Creator Of All Living Things

LOL I love it when people pop in to a thread long enough to spout out something as if it would make any difference. Troll...

There is, actually, a fairly morbid argument that because an aborted infant would go straight to heaven, abortion guarantees their salvation, and is therefore compassionate in a perverse way.

Could you please offer some kind of reference to where you get this information... I've never known what to think about what happens to babies that die prior to birth...

I'll look thru the rest of this thread later, I'm at work and can't devote as much time as I'd like all at once to reading.

 

[flicka]

If one does not know how to properly use the contraceptive, then yes it is irresponsibility in my opinion. What sexually active person does not know how to obtain a contraseptive? Sheesh... Also, if one is not prepared to handle the possible consequence of sex (procreation) wouldn't it be logical to abstain?

Please please try to see outside you worldview for a minute....what is the illiteracy rate in this country? Around the world? What about young girls raised in environments where its perfectly normal and accepted that men will have sex with them because thats how it is where they come from? The image of the educated young woman who sleeps around for fun without BC then aborts because she dosen't want to ruin her figure is what everyone wants to see but thats not how things are in the real world. Often girls don't even know they have a choice NOT to have sex! I'm not just talking about forcible rape but environments where girls are not very educated and are thought of more as property than people...including right here in this country!

Everyone has a right to think what they want about abortion but this is another example of oversimplifying the entire situation. There is nothing simple about it.

 

[Caprice]

Please please try to see outside you worldview for a minute....

Curious, how can I discuss something that is outside my "worldview" without a common frame of refference? I only have information about the situation in the U.S.

what is the illiteracy rate in this country? Around the world?

Please tell me why you would complain about literacy rates when in the U.S. isn't it pretty flippin close to 100%? Why would someone in the U.S. not know how to read and understand instructions? Sheesh! Around the world? I do'nt have much detail on such things but I'd assume in Europe the situation is similiar to the U.S. Other areas, I can imagine literacy is much lower but have no first-hand knowledge of this.

What about young girls raised in environments where its perfectly normal and accepted that men will have sex with them because thats how it is where they come from?

This is not the case in the U.S. I cannot verify your claims, nor can I dispute them. You are taking the discussion way off on a tangent if you ask me (but you didn't).

The image of the educated young woman who sleeps around for fun without BC then aborts because she dosen't want to ruin her figure is what everyone wants to see but thats not how things are in the real world.

Bull. Maybe in other countries this is not the case, but every person I've known that has had an abortion pretty much fit your exact description above (not that I've known many).

Often girls don't even know they have a choice NOT to have sex! I'm not just talking about forcible rape but environments where girls are not very educated and are thought of more as property than people...including right here in this country!

Who in the U.S. does not understand their choice in the matter other than small children who are molested? Again, I presume you are attempting to bring in information from other countries to which I have no knowledge of.

Everyone has a right to think what they want about abortion but this is another example of oversimplifying the entire situation. There is nothing simple about it.

The simplest answer is often the correct one. In my opinion you are overcomplicating the situation. I suppose my opinion is no more valid than yours tho, is it?

I still really like the comment made many pages above...

Whatever has happened to a person, it is NEVER the baby' fault

 

[flicka]

The simplest answer is often the correct one. In my opinion you are overcomplicating the situation. I suppose my opinion is no more valid than yours tho, is it?

I won't even being to address the rest of your post because I could write a book...but your taking people lives and trying to fit them into a neat package that fits your particular religious/moral view of things. I'm sorry if you think I'm making things to complicated but perhaps your life hasn't been as complicated as it has for others. Oh well, live and learn!

 

[AdJesumPerMariam]

2 quick comments:

1. I heard a story tonight about a woman who was raped, & got pregnant. She was devistated, but could/would not abort, so she had the child, and gave her up for adoption. 20 yrs later, the child found her birth mom & asked her why she was given up. Mom told the truith, and said she was raped 3 blocks from her home @ knifepoint. The daughter was shocked, but said "I am so glad you did not abort me"

In todays society, in the US we are taught to be responsible (?). Is being responsible getting pregnant & killing the child? My daughter lost her child this year, at 19.2 weeks, and he was a baby. He had a head, arms, legs-we even have the footprints!

 

[Caprice]

I won't even being to address the rest of your post because I could write a book...

Please, I would like to read your book. PM me if you want to discuss this matter with me more directly, I'll be happy to share my email address with you.

but your taking people lives and trying to fit them into a neat package that fits your particular religious/moral view of things.

Actually, I think what I am doing is attempting to reconsile my views with reality, not reconsile reality with my views as you suggest... but I need a lot more information. I know that in many countries things are not happy happy joy joy, but that fact wouldn't change the moral principle behind things. I need to hear more of your opinions and I need a lot more supporting data or I can never truly understand your point of view.

I'm sorry if you think I'm making things to complicated but perhaps your life hasn't been as complicated as it has for others. Oh well, live and learn!

I wouldn't go so far as to presume my life hasn't been complicated... but I'll agree it hasn't been anything like what it could be in another country. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who was born and has lived in the U.S. has it better than anywhere else. I will also agree that I think you're making things more complicated than they need to be... I could go into religious reasons why I think that way but your agnostic tendancy tells me not to bother (what good does it do me to bash ya with a bible when you don't care right?). Thats cool, just please share your views with me so I can understand your point of view better.

 

[flicka]

I don't wish to write a book or debate abortion. I'm not saying abortion is a wonderful thing, I'm saying your remarks are off base when it comes to how easy it is to prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place. Apparently your 'worldview' is that everyone is educated and knows about BC, how to get it and how to use it..then choose to abort because a baby is inconvenient. I'm saying that is a very limited view. I can't educate you about the different situations facing women in this country (nevermind the world), the lack of education for some, the hopeless of poverty for others. It's taken me a lifetime (more than 2x yours) to learn what I know and I'm still learning. Like I said, live and learn, and try to understand that there are no simple solutions when it comes to other people lives.

As far as religion goes, I wouldn't bother being on these forums if I didn't have an open mind. But your right when you say bashing me with the bible is pointless.

Those are my views and I don't think I'll post on this thread again, its much to frustrating.

 

[Susanna]

But doesn't God know us before we are even formed in our mothers wombs. We are ALL God's creation and as Christians and followers of Christ we have no right under any circumstances to take the life of another even a baby that is yet to be born.

 

[Prince Lucianus]

Which god?

Thor has no problems with abortions whatsoever.

The Christian god sends an aborted foetus straight to heaven? Or does he send it to hell?

I heared a story about a woman being raped by a family member. The family didn't want the outside world to know this, so they forced the woman to remain inside and have the baby. The woman hated her own daughter and picked on the child. The child had a rotten life. When this child married, she behaved the same way to her own children......

Lucy

p.s This discussion is getting repatative. We'll never find eachother in this debate....

 

[Archivist]

What you call to everyone on "personal thoughts and feelings" is being applied to the pro-abortionists. The thing is is that pro-abortionists "assume personal thoughts and feelings" about a life that is being imperically judged on as being worthless, unconvienient, or a "choice" to "legally" kill/dispose. The wisest answer I think is to not make a "choice" because we do not truly know what we would be doing.

I don't know of anyone who is "pro-abortionist." I believe that all of us who call ourselves "pro-choice" would love to see the number of abortions reduced. We simply believe that the choice must remain with the woman. "Pro-abortionist" would imply that one must believe all pregnancies should end with an abortion.

 

[geocajun]

I don't know of anyone who is "pro-abortionist." I believe that all of us who call ourselves "pro-choice" would love to see the number of abortions reduced. We simply believe that the choice must remain with the woman. "Pro-abortionist" would imply that one must believe all pregnancies should end with an abortion.

wrong, pro-abortion means someone who is in favor of abortion - such as yourself.
If you were pro-choice, then I am sure you can demostrate for us how much time and effort you spend fighting against abortion, to balance the time and effort you spend promoting abortion right? Fact is.. the only choice you fight for is abortion.