Interesting view on Abortion - Please Participate (FOR EVERY MEMBERS OF THE FORUM)

[jesusfreak3786]

I feel that it becomes a "baby" as soon as the cord is cut and it can breathe on its own. Until then, it's just an extension of the carrier's body.

Regarding the pictures of aborted fetuses... Don't let your kids see them. Problem solved.

An extention that has it oun lungs? brians? most of all personality and soul? Wow I didn't know that mere body parts could be so possesed!

For some maybe.

 

[Outspoken]

Huh? What do you mean?

Broken Doll

anyone who can answer means your mother was pro-life, she did not abort you. That's what that poster is saying.

 

[Seeking...]

Ok I have to say this ...that is so selfish. I don't mean to be rude or offend you but it is selfish. I hope that you are on some kind of birth control or something to prevent pregnancy if you are sexual active or maybe live in an area where the rape rate is high. Did God not tell us somewhere in the bible that we should be willing to lay our lives down for our brother. Sweetie God can heal you of the pain of what happen to you but you have to be willing to let it go. You have to realize that even if a woman is raped and gets pregnant that is still a life she is carrying. I have told my husband that if it ever happens to me and as a result I do get pregnant I will keep the baby. I like to talk about these things in case it was to happen so he knows where I stand before hand. I guess being that I am a mother it's hard for me to see why someone would not want a child. The first time you hold that child in your harms you can't even remember what yesterday was about. I'm sorry like i said I don't mean to be rude but abortion is selfish. Sorry.

Yes, abortion is selfish. I don't recall suggesting that it isn't. I would be putting my personal needs first and I would not feel ashamed of that. I am not about to lay down my life or turn my personal needs aside for someone I don't know yet and someone who I did not invite into my life. That may be what your God expects of you - but I don't follow your God.

 

[Fuzzy]

anyone who can answer means your mother was pro-life, she did not abort you. That's what that poster is saying.

All one's ability to answer means is that their mother carried them to term,
and they eventually learned how to communicate. Someone can be pro-choice
and still have kids of their own. The concepts of "I'm gonna have a baby" and
"Others should have the option to not have an unwanted baby, if they so
choose." are not mutually exclusive.



the wheels on the thread go round and round, round and round....

 

[gizmo03]

I feel that it becomes a "baby" as soon as the cord is cut and it can breathe on its own. Until then, it's just an extension of the carrier's body.

Regarding the pictures of aborted fetuses... Don't let your kids see them. Problem solved.

I know people have the right to their own opinions and thoughts. But I just don't know why people don't want to refer to the baby as a baby till after it's born. There is a human life going inside you and something as incredible as that I can't imagine referring to it as a fetus for 9months.

 

[Monica02]

It's not a notion its the truth. You are not giving children enough credit, maybe you don't have children. Chilren react according to how they are raised. If you, right from the beginning don't hide the truth from them, even the ugly truth. Then this supposedly truamatic image becomes a fact of life in it's true form. I saw the street children of Kenya on a feed the children program, and when the mother was giving a 15 month old a bath, she splashed the soapy water in his face and rubbed it on his eyes and face pretty firmly, but to the baby this was just his every day bath he didn't even flinch. If you were even to sprinkle water on the face of most of the kids in amarica they would cry to no end. Now you may be wondering how this has anything to do with the pictures. Well your kids can handel what you equipt them to handle, if you shelter them, what do expect? I was raised differently, and my kids are riased differently, they are not sheltered and the truth is not hidden from them. If a parent does they should expect thier kids to freak out at the ugly parts of the world.

JesusFreak,

So true about American kids being sheltered. Another thing I have observed from my experience holding abortion signs is that foreign mothers and fathers rarely freak out when their kids see the pictures. They just walk on by and sometimes answer a child's question. Usually it is an American parent flipping.

 

[jesusfreak3786]

All one's ability to answer means is that their mother carried them to term,
and they eventually learned how to communicate. Someone can be pro-choice
and still have kids of their own. The concepts of "I'm gonna have a baby" and
"Others should have the option to not have an unwanted baby, if they so
choose." are not mutually exclusive.

Exactly your mother didn't abort you. Do you really think to preserve the right of chioce without legal recourse, you would have acually made the disition to be aborted yourself? ( of course this if you had the choice.) Answer realisticly please.

 

[HRE]

This debate essentially boils down to when life begins, does it not?

So when does life begin, and why?

 

[pthalomarie]

Exactly your mother didn't abort you. Do you really think to preserve the right of chioce without legal recourse, you would have acually made the disition to be aborted yourself? ( of course this if you had the choice.) Answer realisticly please.

One cannot answer the question without more facts. Do our souls exist before their entry into this realm?

If they do, then where do are they? Presumably they would probably exist in heaven. This would mean that you'd have to reverse your argument. And suddenly, the notion of leaving heaven for this realm does not seem to be terribly desirable.

There are additional factors to consider. Most Christians would agree that a child who is murdered before birth would go straight back to heaven. However, once born, there exists a chance of damnation. Is life in this world worth the gamble of eternal damnation? Or, would souls prefer to play it safe and take the "guaranteed" option and simply not enter this world?

To take it further, if you gave this choice to a person who lived a miserable life, followed by eternal damnation, what do you think they would choose in hindsight? Odds are, they would prefer not to have been born.

So as you can see, there are far too many variables to provide a "realistic" answer. But in terms of eternal bliss, the safe bet is to choose not to be born.

 

[jesusfreak3786]

daughter thrown away

In the garbage she lies,
with cold lifeless eyes.
She was abandoned today,
and you despised her life per say.
She cannot cry to tell you her sorrow,
because for her there will be no tommorrow.
for your reasons you say,
It had to be this way.
Because she couldn't possably,
be in your womb to stay.
for, she wanted to live,
you said she must die.
Don't worry poor child,
dont' cry please don't cry,
For God beholds you in His eyes.

 

[jesusfreak3786]

The silent scream

Why do they pick on,
the smallest poeple there are.
Theytake the innocent one's
and thier little bodies they marr.
They tear the limbs,
off in the womb.
In the place the babies,
made thier home.
What have they done,
to hurt you so?
That you take thier life,
and put rest to thier soul?

 

[jesusfreak3786]

One cannot answer the question without more facts. Do our souls exist before their entry into this realm?

If they do, then where do are they? Presumably they would probably exist in heaven. This would mean that you'd have to reverse your argument. And suddenly, the notion of leaving heaven for this realm does not seem to be terribly desirable.

There are additional factors to consider. Most Christians would agree that a child who is murdered before birth would go straight back to heaven. However, once born, there exists a chance of damnation. Is life in this world worth the gamble of eternal damnation? Or, would souls prefer to play it safe and take the "guaranteed" option and simply not enter this world?

To take it further, if you gave this choice to a person who lived a miserable life, followed by eternal damnation, what do you think they would choose in hindsight? Odds are, they would prefer not to have been born.

So as you can see, there are far too many variables to provide a "realistic" answer. But in terms of eternal bliss, the safe bet is to choose not to be born.

No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the son of Man who was in heaven. John 3:13

And lets say hypatheticly you could make the choice, and you as an inoccent child see only a big world of places to explore ahead of you, as a child that hasn't seen the evil in the world would.(like abortion) What choice would you make?

 

[HRE]

Wow, jesusfreak3786, I never realized how convincing an argument poorly-wriite poetry can be. You have truly blown me away.

 

[Jedi christian]

Howdy fellow citizens! Whether you are for or against Abortion, I would like to ask everyone for your honest and sound inputs on the following idea.

Abortion is/has been one of the top world-wide issue. I would like to take a moment to briefly analyze the definition of "life," and perhaps see it from a different angle. Also, I humbly ask to be excused from my flaws or any of my assumptions as I am still a student in philosophy. I also ask that you read this as a piece of treat without a critical mind analyzing my mistakes as I am only trying to better understand this subject. Thankyou.

Firstly, I have heard and am aware of the mother's right to choose. There are many exceptional cases in abortion. Some women conceive a child through rape, incest, or simply by a mistake. and for both the sake of mother and the "thing" inside the womb, it is understood that the following action of "abortion" is tolerated.

Do we, as human beings, recognize the "thing" inside the womb as life?
When does a human being become recognized as person? and during what process of pregnancy do we define this blob of blood as life?

Because the way I see it, the issue isn't the mother's right to choose. I think the real issue is the definition of life. Because if the fetus inside the womb is by definition life, then it rightfully assumes the basic human rights which includes the right to live. The mother no longer has jurisdiction over the life of the baby if infact whats inside is life.

So does the "mother's right to choose" over-rule the fetus' human rights?(assuming the fetus is a life)
Which is greater?

Consider this, though it may sound awfully silly. Does a mother have a choice to "abort" a 5 year old boy? If the fetus is infact life, does it not have the same right as would a 5 year old boy? If so, then the difference between the 5 year old boy and the fetus would be the location. One being inside the womb and one out in the field.

Is it not agreeable that the real issue of abortion is definition of life rather than mother's right to choose? Thanks for bearing with me and I hope for many interesting inputs.

First I would like to say, This is my first post in this thread, so I only read the first post. I'm sorry if I'm repeating something someone has already said.

Second, I agree completely with DoseOFReality. I think that the fetus' right to live overrules the mother's choice. My opinion of abortion is that unless A.) the mother will die if the baby is born or B.) The mother was raped and that caused the baby, that abortion should be illegal.

 

[Broken Doll]

anyone who can answer means your mother was pro-life, she did not abort you. That's what that poster is saying.

Oh, okay. That is false for some people, though. My mother isn't and never was pro-life (she had an abortion when she was 17). Pro-choice doesn't mean you are going to have an abortion every time you get pregnant. Some pro-choicers never have an abortion and you don't have to have one in order to be pro-choice. Pro-choice means you believe women should have a right to choose how they're going to go through with their pregnancy, whether it be motherhood, adoption or abortion. I have a feeling a lot people here seem to have it in their head that if a woman goes through with a pregnancy, then that means she's pro-life.

Broken Doll

 

[Miss_Behave]

The way I see it is the pregnant mother who is in danger of losing her life has already had the gift of life. She's already living. The unborn baby hasn't had that chance yet. Why should it loose its right to life?

 

[Monica02]

The way I see it is the pregnant mother who is in danger of losing her life has already had the gift of life. She's already living. The unborn baby hasn't had that chance yet. Why should it loose its right to life?

On a similar note-
What has always baffled me is that one would be hard pressed to find a mother of a born child who would not give her life for that child if she had too. Somehow if her baby is still in the womb, then for some it is a different situation.
Perhaps because they cannot see or cuddle the babe?

 

[Miss_Behave]

On a similar note-
What has always baffled me is that one would be hard pressed to find a mother of a born child who would not give her life for that child if she had too. Somehow if her baby is still in the womb, then for some it is a different situation.
Perhaps because they cannot see or cuddle the babe?

Who knows. I understand what you mean though, I feel the same. Human selfishness is yet again undefinable, I guess. Sad, isn't it?

 

[flicka]

The way I see it is the pregnant mother who is in danger of losing her life has already had the gift of life. She's already living. The unborn baby hasn't had that chance yet. Why should it loose its right to life?

That choice is yours. It should not be MADE FOR YOU by law and I can't see how you can think it should be.

Perhaps other people feel the loss of a woman who is a wife, mother, daughter, aunt, teacher, etc.has more far reaching trama to the world than the loss of an unborn child. Just a thought.

 

[Fuzzy]

Exactly your mother didn't abort you. Do you really think to preserve the right of chioce without legal recourse, you would have acually made the disition to be aborted yourself? ( of course this if you had the choice.) Answer realisticly please.

"Answer realistically." Well, in the fall of 1974, when I would have been in
the uterus, abortion on demand was, and still is, legal. As far as me making
the decision, I wouldn't have been able to since I didn't start talking until
1976 or so, and didn't learn to write for a while after that. Without a means
of communicating my opinions, no one could know if I'd have wanted to abort
myself. Considering there have been times in my life that I've wondered how
better others might be if I weren't here, yeah, I might have aborted myself.
But, back then, in the womb, would I have even had self awareness? It was
not my decision to make at that point. My parents wanted kids, my father
laready had two from his first marriage, but my mother wanted kids. I almost
didn't exist because their first two attempts had turned out to be emotionally
and physically painful late term miscarriages. They tried again, they had me,
and life went on.

And just because my mother chose to have me doesn't mean she was
opposed to abortion. Please try to understand the following concept:
No one is advocating mandatory abortions. What "pro-choice" or "pro-
abortion" people are advocating is that abortion should be available for
women who feel that it's their best option.