Interesting view on Abortion - Please Participate (FOR EVERY MEMBERS OF THE FORUM)

[Seeking...]

I resent the idea that people who support abortion are somehow hiding from the truth and the reality of abortion, it is probably quite true of a minority but hardly the majority.

I have seen plenty of abortion pictures and they are disgusting and bloody but that doesn't change my resolve. I am very much a realist - life begins at conception but I do not consider all life, not even all human life, to be created equal. I have also counselled friends who have been in the position of terminating their pregnancy. I would not personally abort a child created out of a consensual act - but I would not make it illegal for another to do so.
An unwanted pregnancy is like an unwanted houseguest and a woman should have the right to remove that guest from what is her home. It is not about punishing the baby, but the reality is that one cannot resolve the issue of an unwanted houseguest without someone suffering - and I prefer the host to the intruder. I personally support the woman's right to run her "house" as she sees fit.
Many on this board would like to assume that there is a simple fix it to the situations that bring women to the point of considering abortion - very few seem to actually put some thought into the woman at all. While I believe solid sex/ethical education can reduce the need for many abortions it will not solve the need for all. Some of you think that with the right support - women will make the decision to maintain the pregnancy, but that is ridiculous. The best way to reduce abortions is to reduce the numbers of unplanned pregnancies. It isn't always about money, parenting classes and hand holding - many women know they are not ready to make the life changes neccesary to mother a child and they can't imagine giving a child to complete strangers.
I know rape is overused - but I need to discuss it as a result of some of the things I've read here. I personally would have an abortion if I became pregnant as a result of a coercive attack. I have been assualted before, when I was too young to concieve, but I still remember how much of myself I lost, how alien my own body felt to me and I would not suffer that in addition to a pregnancy for anyone. It took much longer than a pregnancy to "deal with it", "get over it" and "get on with life". I seriously doubt that my recovery would ever be aided by being saddled (yes "saddled" is exactly what I mean) with a daily reminder of hell. The child would have no right to my body, no right to infringe upon my piece of mind - and it is besides the point that it is not the child's fault. I would consider it self defense in this situation. Intent is not neccesary for self defense. If a mentally unstable person was endagering your life - it is still self defense to kill him to save yourself even though he lacks the mental capability to form intent to harm.
I don't care if anyone thinks I am evil or cold-blooded, I would just rather deal in facts than emotional appeals. Not all pregnancies are blessings. Not all woman bond with their child during gestation. Not all women would be better off for allowing their pregnancies to contiue.

 

[AdJesumPerMariam]

You've hit the nail on the head. The so-called "right to choose" (whether or not to kill one's unborn child) is not some God-given innate right every woman possesses. Rather, it's a "right" bestowed upon American women by the United States Supreme Court (who were, incidentally, going way beyond their jurisdiction by "interpreting the Constitution" in a manner far removed from the intent of its authors.) The abortion debate isn't about taking away some so-called right of mothers--it's about the sanctity of human life.

AMEN!
If you can't have respect for life....how can you have respect?

 

[Monica02]

- many women know they are not ready to make the life changes neccesary to mother a child and they can't imagine giving a child to complete strangers.
The child would have no right to my body, no right to infringe upon my piece of mind - and it is besides the point that it is not the child's fault. I would consider it self defense in this situation. Intent is not neccesary for self defense. If a mentally unstable person was endagering your life - it is still self defense to kill him to save yourself even though he lacks the mental capability to form intent to harm.
I don't care if anyone thinks I am evil or cold-blooded, I would just rather deal in facts than emotional appeals. Not all pregnancies are blessings. Not all woman bond with their child during gestation. Not all women would be better off for allowing their pregnancies to contiue.

They can't imagine giving the child to complete strangers but they think killing the child is okay? That makes no sense. Give any sane parent the option of death or giving their child up and virtually all will give the child up.

The child conceived in rape is the mother's child as well. He is a human being, regardless of the tragic way in which he was conceived. The child conceived in rape is possibly only a threat to the women's mental health, not a threat to her life so your self-defense agrument makes no sense.

Regardless of whether the parent considers the child a blessing or whether she will be better off because of it does not matter. The fact that matters is that the child is a human being. I would be better off if a coworker who spreads lies about me was dead, so should I be able to kill her?

 

[jesusfreak3786]

I have been assualted before, when I was too young to concieve, but I still remember how much of myself I lost, how alien my own body felt to me and I would not suffer that in addition to a pregnancy for anyone.

So instead you would continue the chain of violece, and take the life of an inoccent child. I know this may offend you but I feel it needs to be said. All you succseed in doing that, is bringing your self at the same low level of morality as the rapest. If you ask me it's a crime at the same level or more accuraty worse than a rape. If you are raped you still get to lay eyes on your loved ones agian and you have breath in you to inable the time needed to heal. But if you are killed there is nothing left everything is taken from you. I am not trying to be harsh but I know this might be. Sorry.

 

[flicka]

Bottom line: Pro-aborts do not want the photos shown because it exposes the truth of what an abortion is.

I saw what came out of my body after a 9 week pregnancy ended unexpectidly...it looking nothing like the photos people like to wave around. I wonder how much sympaty would be generated by showing photos of what basically amounted to a blood clot?

I'm not saying just because it dosen't look like a baby it isn't...thats not my point so don't even bother. All I'm addressing the fallacy of using photos of late term (illegal?)abortions/miscarriages/stillbirths photos to 'expose the truth'. There are practical ways to assist women facing an unwanted pregnancy that don't involve exposing unsuspecting children and adults to disturbing images they never asked to see.

 

[Monica02]

I saw what came out of my body after a 9 week pregnancy ended unexpectidly...it looking nothing like the photos people like to wave around. I wonder how much sympaty would be generated by showing photos of what basically amounted to a blood clot?

I'm not saying just because it dosen't look like a baby it isn't...thats not my point so don't even bother. All I'm addressing the fallacy of using photos of late term (illegal?)abortions/miscarriages/stillbirths photos to 'expose the truth'. There are practical ways to assist women facing an unwanted pregnancy that don't involve exposing unsuspecting children and adults to disturbing images they never asked to see.

Well I will bother saying that it was not a blood clot, it was a very small person. I need to say this because I have encountered people who really thought that a fetus was a blood clot. Luckily my posters and info helped the
individual to see the truth! Another successful day of activism.
Late term abortions are not illegal. Miscarriages and stillbirths are not ripped apart. Not all of the pictures shown are late term. We use all trimesters.
I understand that there are ways to assist women facing an unplanned pregnancy and the pro-life community does that too.
The posters are not used to assist women (although many do change their mind about aborting after they see them). They are there to show the truth about abortion.

 

[jesusfreak3786]

I saw what came out of my body after a 9 week pregnancy ended unexpectidly...it looking nothing like the photos people like to wave around. I wonder how much sympaty would be generated by showing photos of what basically amounted to a blood clot?

I'm not saying just because it dosen't look like a baby it isn't...thats not my point so don't even bother. All I'm addressing the fallacy of using photos of late term (illegal?)abortions/miscarriages/stillbirths photos to 'expose the truth'. There are practical ways to assist women facing an unwanted pregnancy that don't involve exposing unsuspecting children and adults to disturbing images they never asked to see.

Just like spraeding news about AIDS keeps poeple aware of the possable concequence of there action, showing these photo's also spreads information that will aid in someone makeing a better informed desition. If I am up on the times and indeed correct, abortion is legal in the U.S.A. thru all 9 months of the pregnancy. There was just resently a ban on partial birth abortions. I don't know if you know how this is preformed, but I am afraid it might be to gory to describe on this forum. I will say that the baby is born (well the head is out) alive, and before the body comes out they kill the child. As bad as this sounds this method was legal up untill only a year or two ago.

 

[Seeking...]

So instead you would continue the chain of violece, and take the life of an inoccent child. I know this may offend you but I feel it needs to be said. All you succseed in doing that, is bringing your self at the same low level of morality as the rapest. If you ask me it's a crime at the same level or more accuraty worse than a rape. If you are raped you still get to lay eyes on your loved ones agian and you have breath in you to inable the time needed to heal. But if you are killed there is nothing left everything is taken from you. I am not trying to be harsh but I know this might be. Sorry.

You are entitled to your opinion. Having survived one assault - I would actually rather die than survive another one. Were I unfortunate enough to survive and lack the will to end my life I could not continue with such a pregnancy. If you equate the need for me to feel whole and in control of my body with someone else's desire to destroy me - fine. Brand me a murderer - but let me have the abortion. I value my life over the life of the unborn. I value my life over the power of a depraved criminal to force me to bear his child. Please understand that no one in this position cares what you think about her - I would willingly go from the doctor's office to a prison if required.
Not all women are the same - I know what I lost the first time, it isn't some figment of my imagination and I know I would not, could not bring such a pregnancy to term for any reason.

 

[Monica02]

Just like spraeding news about AIDS keeps poeple aware of the possable concequence of there action, showing these photo's also spreads information that will aid in someone makeing a better informed desition. If I am up on the times and indeed correct, abortion is legal in the U.S.A. thru all 9 months of the pregnancy. There was just resently a ban on partial birth abortions. I don't know if you know how this is preformed, but I am afraid it might be to gory to describe on this forum. I will say that the baby is born (well the head is out) alive, and before the body comes out they kill the child. As bad as this sounds this method was legal up untill only a year or two ago.

The ban has been overturned in the Federal Courts. I think it is being appealed to the Supreme Court. Other methods of late term abortions are still legal. In partial birth abortion the baby is turned around and the head is kept in the birth canal while the rest of the body is out. The brains of the baby are sucked out.

 

[Fuzzy]

Rather, it's a "right" bestowed upon American women by the United States Supreme Court (who were, incidentally, going way beyond their jurisdiction by "interpreting the Constitution" in a manner far removed from the intent of its authors.)

The Supreme Court, via Roe v. Wade, ruled that laws regarding abortion in
Texas in 1973 violated the right to privacy granted by the United States
Constitution. Roe, and others (it was a class action suit) felt the law was
improper, fought it, and got all the way to the Supreme Court, where the
Justices agreed with them. The right was already there.

 

[Monica02]

Roe, and others (it was a class action suit) felt the law was
improper, fought it, and got all the way to the Supreme Court, where the
Justices agreed with them. The right was already there.

Roe-Norma McCorvey- is a pro-lfe activist now and a Catholic! She never did have an abortion, thank God.

 

[Seeking...]

They can't imagine giving the child to complete strangers but they think killing the child is okay? That makes no sense. Give any sane parent the option of death or giving their child up and virtually all will give the child up.

It makes sense to them. They assume the child either disappears into nothingness or goes to heaven - either way no real harm to the child. The child has not yet experienced any life to miss. But giving a child to complete strangers is a Pandora's box of unknowns. They could be kind, loving and responsible parents or they could be depraved individuals or anything inbetween and no real way to know.

The child conceived in rape is the mother's child as well. He is a human being, regardless of the tragic way in which he was conceived. The child conceived in rape is possibly only a threat to the women's mental health, not a threat to her life so your self-defense agrument makes no sense..

A serious threat to mental health can be quite a threat to life. The argument I made was personal and in my case only - it would be self defense because I wouldn't stay alive to carry such a child to term.

Regardless of whether the parent considers the child a blessing or whether she will be better off because of it does not matter. The fact that matters is that the child is a human being. I would be better off if a coworker who spreads lies about me was dead, so should I be able to kill her?

You and your coworker have equal rights by nature of the fact that she is not dependent upon your body to survive. A woman and her unborn child do not have equal rights and shouldn't. The child is a human being who is intimately dependent on the woman's body processes to survive - the woman has a right to discontinue service.

 

[A. believer]

The Supreme Court, via Roe v. Wade, ruled that laws regarding abortion in
Texas in 1973 violated the right to privacy granted by the United States
Constitution. Roe, and others (it was a class action suit) felt the law was
improper, fought it, and got all the way to the Supreme Court, where the
Justices agreed with them. The right was already there.

Are you claiming that the "right" to kill one's unborn child was the intent of the framers of the Constitution's "right to privacy?" Monica is correct, "Roe," a/k/a Norma McCorvey, has repented before God of the part she played in such an egregious corruption of our nation's morality and is trying to do whatever God graciously allows her to do to rectify it. And thank God, it appears to me that, in general, the hearts and minds of America's young people are far less receptive to the idea of some inherent "right" to abortion than they have been since it became the law of the land in 1973.

 

[kissybug27]

There is a story I once heard and if I can find it on the web I will tell you the whole story......but when I was a teen I use to go the Winterfest in Gatlinburg Tn......One year a guess speaker was brought in to tell us her testimony....the young girl who I think was about 17 or 18 at the time stood leaning on a stool for support because she had a health condition caused by an abortion. Abortion you say yes an abortion....only it wasn't one she had it was her own. Her mother had decided to abort her late in her pregnancy. The mother was injected with a substance that was suppose to kill the baby and then labor was induced. Sometimes with this procedure the child is born alive as was this young girl. Do you know what they did with her? Threw her in a garbage can. A nurse from the hospital found her, took her for medical help, and then adopted her. This could have been a healthy child but because of her biological mothers decision to end her life she will live her life with disabilities ......with all this everything that was wrong with her and what had happen to cause it .....this young girl stood on that stage and gave thanks to God to be alive.....this is how I remember the story....like I said if I can find it I will show it to you.

God gives us so many gifts even when we dont deserve them. Why o why do we think we have the right to force them back.

A little saying ......Jesus said "send the little children unto me" He didnt say "send me you babies in garbage bags."

It makes me very sad to know that millions of babies are being killed just for being................

One more point I want to make is about rape victims ...I understand that it must be hard to get over a rape but why must you punish a child for something that his/her father did. God doesn't punish me for the sins of my dad so why do we do it to our children.

 

[Seeking...]

Are you claiming that the "right" to kill one's unborn child was the intent of the framers of the Constitution's "right to privacy?" Monica is correct, "Roe," a/k/a Norma McCorvey, has repented before God of the part she played in such an egregious corruption of our nation's morality and is trying to do whatever God graciously allows her to do to rectify it. And thank God, it appears to me that, in general, the hearts and minds of America's young people are far less receptive to the idea of some inherent "right" to abortion than they have been since it became the law of the land in 1973.

Surgical abortion may be new, but women have been using herbal aborticants (sp?) for centuries as well as an occaisional household implement. The framers of the constitution were learned men - if they had meant to prevent abortion in some way I am sure they would have found a way to do so.

 

[Fuzzy]

Roe-Norma McCorvey- is a pro-lfe activist now and a Catholic! She never did have an abortion, thank God.

And her pregnancy came to term before the case was settled. The Supreme
Court felt the issue was important enough to hear and settle, despite
arguments it was moot by reason of delivery.

 

[Seeking...]

One more point I want to make is about rape victims ...I understand that it must be hard to get over a rape but why must you punish a child for something that his/her father did. God doesn't punish me for the sins of my dad so why do we do it to our children.

Actually God (per the Bible) has wiped out entire cities, killing everyone, including children including any unborn in the wombs of the women he killed, and I don't think it was for anything the children had done.

If I were pregnant as the result of a rape - my wanting an abortion would not be about punishing the child. It would be about survival and choices. I could not survive carrying that child - it is more than I am capable of - more than I am willing to subject myself to. So I would have a choice - either the child dies or I do (in which case the child would still die).

 

[Fuzzy]

Are you claiming that the "right" to kill one's unborn child was the intent of the framers of the Constitution's "right to privacy?"

I'm claiming that the Supreme Court found fault with laws regarding abortion.
Since not everyone has the same morality, or religious guideline, or set of
ethics, or personal influences, we have to go with what everyone can agree
with, which in American society is a codex of laws created either by ourselves
or our elected representatives.

 

[flicka]

Well I will bother saying that it was not a blood clot, it was a very small person.

See, thats the difference tho. Many people consider a person someone who...well someone who IS. Cells with the potential to become a person if everything goes as it should are not giving the same weight as that of a live birth or later.

I'm not arguing with you I'm just pointing out that your definition is not universal.

And this quote by Kissybug27 caught my eye:

One more point I want to make is about rape victims ...I understand that it must be hard to get over a rape but why must you punish a child for something that his/her father did. God doesn't punish me for the sins of my dad so why do we do it to our children.

::emphasis mine:: because this dosen't seem to gel with the whole idea of Adam and sin and whatnot. Way off subject I know but I couldn't help but notice.

and let's remember that nobody, not even a pregnant rape victim, can be held to the same standards of GOD...

 

[aimejl]

abortion is wrong no matter the reason!