Interesting view on Abortion - Please Participate (FOR EVERY MEMBERS OF THE FORUM)

[All4one]

Jacks470- Do not compromise your faith!

Now, i am not so sure. Incest. The mother i think shoud have a choice. Rape. It may be a very painful thing for a mother i think to look at their child and relive that experience all the time.

I say this in Gods love sister. Should a mother look at a child and think of the experience or the blessing? We are Gods children regardless of our sins and are we not supposed to be like God? God would not abort us although He looks at us and sees that we are born in idoltrous "incest" and "rape". We are actually more guilty then the act commited in the flesh.

In love sister I say please stand on Gods rock! Stand strong in what you believe and don't follow circumstance!

In Christ,
All4one

 

[All4one]

Now, i am not so sure. Incest. The mother i think shoud have a choice. Rape. It may be a very painful thing for a mother i think to look at their child and relive that experience all the time.

Another thought- The experience will not be erased by doing away with the child... it will be called back to memory regardless!

 

[jesusfreak3786]

All4one you have a strong faith don't lose it. God blessyou

 

[pthalomarie]

A person is replacing a life that could be the next Albert Einstein or President Bush for something they consider more important then life itself. What if that child aborted had been Johann Guttenburg or Marie Curry?

And what if the child would be the next Stalin or Hitler? Would that change your answer?

My point is not to imply that abortion is in any way desirable, but your argument is based on a worldly outlook.

 

[Archivist]

It is my right to choose, whether the government says so or not.

 

[AdJesumPerMariam]

Hmmmm...what happened to the value of human life?

 

[All4one]

All4one you have a strong faith don't lose it. God blessyou

Thank you Jesus Freak- It always helps to be encouraged.

Hmmmm...what happened to the value of human life?

It was flushed out with the baby! What came first the baby or the motivation to kill it?

And what if the child would be the next Stalin or Hitler? Would that change your answer?

I'm looking at this from a worldly standpoint by refusing the spiritual motivation and tension that abides here? As for Stalin and Hitler, it was not their birth that made them that way but their upraising. So in that case maybe the parents should have been killed because they were the real threat? God, where has truth gone?

There are some very nice points here but the fact still remains. pthalomarie thank you for your input but I do not understand why you keep putting down the pro-life idea and then implying that abortion is wronge . Anyways, love ya sis. Hope I can understand this

In Christs Love,
All4one

 

[All4one]

It is my right to choose, whether the government says so or not.

Very nice point! I know what governing body I serve though and I will be submissive to that one... not the government of this world. If government rules tells me to do something contradicting Gods laws then take my life, but atleast I can stand before the real judge!

In Christs Love,
All4one

 

[pthalomarie]

I'm looking at this from a worldly standpoint by refusing the spiritual motivation and tension that abides here?

No, you're looking at it from a worldly standpoint by measuring what we - that is, the world - have gained from these people. The implication in your question is that an Einstein is of greater value to us than a Joe Average. In a worldly sense, yes, he is. In a spiritual sense, they are equal.

As for Stalin and Hitler, it was not their birth that made them that way but their upraising. So in that case maybe the parents should have been killed because they were the real threat? God, where has truth gone?

So then your "Einstein Scenario" is out the window. If the parents are what matters, then you've provided a loophole. It could then be argued that some parents should consider abortion, on the grounds that they're unloving or incompetent.

There are some very nice points here but the fact still remains. pthalomarie thank you for your input but I do not understand why you keep putting down the pro-life idea and then implying that abortion is wrong .

Simply put, I don't think it's possible to take a moral side in this debate. On paper, both sides have some decent theories, but the reality is both sides advocate and defend significant evils. Both sides based much of their rhetoric on deliberate lies, and both are disproportionately led by activists and organizations who care more about political victories than they do the people they will affect.

You see, I happen to be a politically active liberal evangelical. I've had simultaneous access to activists and leaders from both sides of the debate. I get lots of literature from both sides, and when you add it all up side-by-side, it's easy to see that there are no good guys in this issue. Every woman with an unwanted pregnancy is little more than a tally for one side or the other.

What's interesting is that I've found that the farther away one gets from the activists on either side, the more noble the people get. A pro-life person who quietly senses that an abortion is wrong is far more likely to have a Christian attitude towards the problem than the pro-life activist is. Same goes for pro-choicers. The average apolitical pro-choicer is far more likely to have a Christian attitude than the activist.

 

[AdJesumPerMariam]

Abortion is WRONG, and maybe if we made it illegal, there would be less abortions. Yes, women may try the old crochet hook, or go in the back door of some clinic, (which happened before) but were not people a little more careful? Did not more people decide not to have sex until marriage? Were there not less divorces prior to 1960?

We, who are against abortion, should also stand up and decide to help these women, who are pregnant and don't want the child. There are many programs here in the US to assist in healthcare-plus there is WIC for women who need it. Then, adoption! We who are able, and are able should take in unwanted kids-of ANY age. There are so many out there! We are a very selfish country, with very selfish people. We need to start picking up & doing what we need to do.

Matthew 25:35 For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:

36 Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. 37 Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? 39 Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? 40 And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.

No, this will not make a perfect world...but it will help. Won't be perfect until Jesus comes back.

 

[Reader1414]

To aspire to perfection - a place only God knows, one would choose not to have an abortion. In addition, a person would raise the child as a Christian and teach the child the good news that Jesus paid the price for all our sins. Those who are Christian do not belong to this world. The meaning and purpose of life are clearly spelled out for all of us in Ecclesiates and it has nothing to do with success in the things of this world. Those who belong to this world will have abortions to make this world a more enjoyable place. this who belong to God, will aspire to please God by valuing life and the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Prince Lucianus]

I think concensus is found.

If you belief in jesus (or other abortion forbidden religion): Don't have an abortion.
If your beliefs are indifferent or don't cover this issue: Try not to have an abortion, but remain in the chosing position to have one.

Lucy

 

[AdJesumPerMariam]

So, if you believe in God, be a respector of life....if not, then you don't have to be a respector of life? ?

 

[All4one]

Simply put, I don't think it's possible to take a moral side in this debate.

Actually it is impossible not to. You may say that you do not choose sides but I have seen you speak more for it then against it.

So, if you believe in God, be a respector of life....if not, then you don't have to be a respector of life? ?

Dede 10 I respect your wisdom... this is what I wish people could understand. Everything is NOT a matter of opinion. satan has collapsed any sense of right and wrong in the world. Opinion is such a deadly word, we no longer use it to back up why our favorite color is blue or red but to back up the fact that morality is only a set of beliefs. Opinion has destroyed the church and then split it after that. It is no longer used as individuality but an excuse for a lack of morality.
It somewhat excites me ,after facing so many opinions in this world, to think that one day everyone will stand before God who is going to say, " so you THOUGHT I was not real?" or "so you THOUGHT that killing my creation was okay?" or "so you THOUGHT that you could have sex with all these people, never ask for my help to erase these things, and still inherit my kingdom?" --- In one way it makes me tremble to think that people who put Christians ,who are moraly stable, off as believers of opinion. It is the whole reason of our life on earth, to destroy what people have accepted as truth and believe in opinion and let them know what IS real. It excites me to know one day that opinion will be suppresed but it also scares me that there are so many so liberal. We should never desire hell for one of Gods children nor death- in the mother or out.
pthalomarie I see many instances where you corrected me but left your own opinion shadowed under what is really true. I will not go through and criticize all your statement because that only provides friction. All I have to say is that if you want to know the truth then accept it, if not now then later. If you think im wronge then I pray that you be sure that you are ABSOLUTELY without a doubt right. If you seek truth with all your heart you, as well as anyone else, will find it. If you don't want to know it then keep resisting it. These are words of simplicity, I do not have to speak with long terms or philosophy to reveal the truth... just with the word of God.

In Christs Love,
Love Ya Sis,
All4one

 

[Prince Lucianus]

So, if you believe in God, be a respector of life....if not, then you don't have to be a respector of life? ?

No, If you belief in god, you can keep your rigid unchangeable beliefs, and if you don't you're liberated.

Stop twisting my words.

Lucy

 

[Carico]

I think concensus is found.

If you belief in jesus (or other abortion forbidden religion): Don't have an abortion.
If your beliefs are indifferent or don't cover this issue: Try not to have an abortion, but remain in the chosing position to have one.

Lucy

So, if I understand you correctly, if you believe in something that makes it right? If i don't believe in Jesus then I can kill anyone I want to? Who says?All the Supreme Court has to do is make a decision that killing is right and people are duped into believing that is right. They've already done that with abortion. When you worship people, you can simply pick and choose which person you want to believe and then justify your behavior. And we wonder how Hitler got into power? Pretty scary thinking.

 

[AdJesumPerMariam]

No, If you belief in god, you can keep your rigid unchangeable beliefs, and if you don't you're liberated.

Stop twisting my words.
Lucy

Actually, it's the other way around. You don't have to change your beliefs as the wind changes, and you decide tomorrow you have chnaged your mind. Truth is truth, no matter what your personal belief system is.

 

[Prince Lucianus]

Truth is unfortunately not absolute truth. Your truths are not mine.
We've debated abortion for 38 pages and what is murder for you is not murder for the other. Some don't mind killing animals who are more sentient than foetusses and others do.
There's also no absolute truth in believing. This is shown in our world where more religious beliefs than nations exists. Christians, Muslims, Buddhists all claim to have the absolute truth and deny the others logic/scriptures.
You can worship Buddha, Mohammed, Jesus or anybody who has a set of morals which is acceptable by any logical culture.
In my mind, nobody ever worshipped Hitler. They accepted him as their national leader. Hitler didn't condone Germans killing other Germans, but as any tirant (Stalin, Hussain) he did practice it himself to strengthen his position. He didn't condone Germans to have an abortion either.

Your claiming that a foetus is a person is not shared by me. Does that mean that your version is the truth or mine????
Now, once again, I hope people don't need to have an abortion. They should be carefull when having sex and think of the consequences.
But if all else fails, they should be able to chose to keep it or not.
This is my truth, I know it's not yours.

Lucy

 

[AdJesumPerMariam]

Again, it all breaks down to:women who want a child, get pregnant & lose the child in ANY stage, considers that child a child.
Women who do not want their child, consider their child a blob, or non life.

 

[pthalomarie]

Again, it all breaks down to:women who want a child, get pregnant & lose the child in ANY stage, considers that child a child.
Women who do not want their child, consider their child a blob, or non life.

That's not true. I know a woman who had an ectopic pregnancy (which is when the fetus was in the fallopian tube, rather than the uterus). She did not want her child because, as the child grew, it would have ruptured her tube and very likely killed her. She was also pro-life, btw.