Inter-denomination restrictions on communion??!

[mont974x4]

3n1, I agree with that biblical view, despite denominational lines and other traditions of men, if we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and He is our personal Lord and Savior, then we are brothers and sisters, the Church, and a royal preisthood.

 

[threeinone]

3n1, I agree with that biblical view, despite denominational lines and other traditions of men, if we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and He is our personal Lord and Savior, then we are brothers and sisters, the Church, and a royal preisthood.

I also believe that to read the bible word for word with total logic and no feelings(as I am told I should control), that we are making a mistake because God is not totally logic like science......He has feelings. To be spiritual is to have feelings and to quelch those feelings because of words and logic, is to kill the spirit.

Total logic, word for word is one extreme and total feelings is the other extreme. It is obsessions and extremes that Jesus called sins. IMHO

 

[mont974x4]

I also believe that to read the bible word for word with total logic and no feelings(as I am told I should control), that we are making a mistake because God is not totally logic like science......He has feelings. To be spiritual is to have feelings and to quelch those feelings because of words and logic, is to kill the spirit.

Total logic, word for word is one extreme and total feelings is the other extreme. It is obsessions and extremes that Jesus called sins. IMHO

God made us, feelings and emotions included. I don't believe they are sins, how we handle and use them can be sin. He is also a person (living being, or whatever you prefer) and yes, He does have feelings. He is angry, He is jealous, He is love and He is joyful etc. We see that in His Word. When we read His Word, pray, worship, serve, take communion and get baptised we are acting in our personal relationship with Him and that means emotions and feelings too. Shame when I dissapoint Him with my sin, joy when I learn of a new family member, peace when I feel His hand on me, anger when someone dishonors Him (like David was angry at Goliath).


Sorry, I got off topic. I get rambly at times.

 

[INRI2]

So you think that the Catholic Church is the only House of the Lord. Too bad. Last I heard, Jesus is everywhere, God is everywhere, in every Church that accepts Jesus as Savior. Do you think Catholics are the only ones who accept Jesus as our Savior. The House of the Lord is wherever the Lord chooses to be and sometimes I think it just might not be the Catholic Church. Pride goeth before the fall.

THE ONLY HOUSE OF THE LORD?

Where two or more gather in my name I will be there!

I do not deny that Christ is in your midst when you gather together.


However It was Christ who said:- "Peter you are a ROCK and upon this ROCK i will BUILD MY CHURCH "

"Anyone who listens to these words of mine will be like a WISE man who BUILT HIS HOUSE on the ROCK"

 

[threeinone]

THE ONLY HOUSE OF THE LORD?

Where two or more gather in my name I will be there!

I do not deny that Christ is in your midst when you gather together.


However It was Christ who said:- "Peter you are a ROCK and upon this ROCK i will BUILD MY CHURCH "

"Anyone who listens to these words of mine will be like a WISE man who BUILT HIS HOUSE on the ROCK"

I have yet to figure out what Peter the Rock has to do with the Catholic Church. I am told he was the first pope and that he was the first in the line of popes to the Catholic Church today. But popes are chosen by people, chosen, not a born line of popes. Popes, Peters could be chosen to any church. Always man chosen, man made, always claimed to be of God. The only link I can see between the pope today and Peter the Rock is that they are men. Peter was chosen by God, all other popes were CHOSEN by MEN according to whatever those men wanted to support. And that is just what I think not a statement to cover all of history.

 

[mont974x4]

ROCK[/U] i will BUILD MY CHURCH "

"Anyone who listens to these words of mine will be like a WISE man who BUILT HIS HOUSE on the ROCK"

I'd say that is a huge stretch and the comment from the parable is well out of context.

I may have to visit the Catholic forum to gain more understanding on how they justify their beliefs.

 

[INRI2]

I'd say that is a huge stretch and the comment from the parable is well out of context.

It was not from a parable but the sermon on the mount.
I dont happen to think its a huge strech to believe that Christ built a church on earth, I think it is clear from scripture that he did.

As for the part taken from the sermon on the mount, i see it as a clear reference to Christ (the wise man) building his church (House) on the Rock (Peter)

I think Christ is saying anyone who hears my words and acts on them will be like Christ and put his trust in the office of St Peter.

And that those foolish men who build their house on sand (not the office of St Peter) will be like those who do not listen to his words or act on them

I may have to visit the Catholic forum to gain more understanding on how they justify their beliefs.

I think thats a good Idea.

 

[INRI2]

I have yet to figure out what Peter the Rock has to do with the Catholic Church. I am told he was the first pope and that he was the first in the line of popes to the Catholic Church today. But popes are chosen by people, chosen, not a born line of popes. Popes, Peters could be chosen to any church. Always man chosen, man made, always claimed to be of God. The only link I can see between the pope today and Peter the Rock is that they are men. Peter was chosen by God, all other popes were CHOSEN by MEN according to whatever those men wanted to support. And that is just what I think not a statement to cover all of history.

Well first of all Pope linus was appointed by St Peter himself, I am not sure how many succesors to the office of St Peter were appointed this way before the system where the cardinals appointed by the pope go into the conclave and pray for the holy spirit to guide them to choose one from among them. So in effect the pope that succeeds the last pope has already been choosen by the pope and the appostolic succesion continues, From St Peter and Pope Linus right through to Pope Benedict XVI they have been choosen by through a long line of succesion back to Christ himself, Christ appointed Peter, Peter appointed linus so on and so forth, the conclave just allows the holy spirit to play a bigger part.

finally we have the promise of Christ that the office of Peter would be preserved by Christ himself from Evil

"the gates of hell shall not prevail against it"

To be fair that is enough for me, if Christ says it i believe it.

 

[mont974x4]

It was not from a parable but the sermon on the mount.
I dont happen to think its a huge strech to believe that Christ built a church on earth, I think it is clear from scripture that he did.

As for the part taken from the sermon on the mount, i see it as a clear reference to Christ (the wise man) building his church (House) on the Rock (Peter)

I think Christ is saying anyone who hears my words and acts on them will be like Christ and put his trust in the office of St Peter.

And that those foolish men who build their house on sand (not the office of St Peter) will be like those who do not listen to his words or act on them



I think thats a good Idea.

Ok, it wasn't a parable but nothing in that passage supports the idea that the rock mentioned there is Peter. Jesus is clearly talking about true believers and those faking it.

Mat 7:21 `Not every one who is saying to me Lord, lord, shall come into the reign of the heavens; but he who is doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, lord, have we not in thy name prophesied? and in thy name cast out demons? and in thy name done many mighty things?
Mat 7:23 and then I will acknowledge to them, that--I never knew you, depart from me ye who are working lawlessness.
Mat 7:24 `Therefore, every one who doth hear of me these words, and doth do them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house upon the rock;
Mat 7:25 and the rain did descend, and the streams came, and the winds blew, and they beat on that house, and it fell not, for it had been founded on the rock.
Mat 7:26 `And every one who is hearing of me these words, and is not doing them, shall be likened to a foolish man who built his house upon the sand;
Mat 7:27 and the rain did descend, and the streams came, and the winds blew, and they beat on that house, and it fell, and its fall was great.'
Mat 7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus ended these words, the multitudes were astonished at his teaching,
Mat 7:29 for he was teaching them as having authority, and not as the scribes.

Christ certainly did build a Church on earth, and it is all who believe in Him, not people that follow any one denomination. To draw such lines is arrogant and divisive when unity is called for.

Furthermore, we are never encouraged to follow men other than Jesus Himself. (Paul dealt with that when the people were arguing saying "I am of Apollos", etc)Christ is the one and only High Priest and we are the church, the body, and the royal preisthood. Again, unity and purity of the Church is called for, not division.

 

[threeinone]

Well first of all Pope linus was appointed by St Peter himself, I am not sure how many succesors to the office of St Peter were appointed this way before the system where the cardinals appointed by the pope go into the conclave and pray for the holy spirit to guide them to choose one from among them. So in effect the pope that succeeds the last pope has already been choosen by the pope and the appostolic succesion continues, From St Peter and Pope Linus right through to Pope Benedict XVI they have been choosen by through a long line of succesion back to Christ himself, Christ appointed Peter, Peter appointed linus so on and so forth, the conclave just allows the holy spirit to play a bigger part.

finally we have the promise of Christ that the office of Peter would be preserved by Christ himself from Evil

"the gates of hell shall not prevail against it"

To be fair that is enough for me, if Christ says it i believe it.

But who says that Peter was the Catholic Church. Maybe it was some other church. God's Church. Whereby does the Catholic Church lay claim to it all? And to have the say in everything, or so they think? When anyone claims to be it all and everything, something is amiss. When anything I say means nothing unless it agrees with the Catholic Church, something is definitely amiss. The Catholic Church is not that good.

 

[mont974x4]

In this passage can we be sure that Christ was talking only to Peter, as tradition has led us to believe, or to the disciples as a whole? Based on the work of the disciples after Christs resurection and ascention I would say He meant that His church would be built on them, the disciples, as opposed to him, Peter.

Mat 16:13 And Jesus, having come to the parts of Caesarea Philippi, was asking his disciples, saying, `Who do men say me to be--the Son of Man?'
Mat 16:14 and they said, `Some, John the Baptist, and others, Elijah, and others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.'
Mat 16:15 He saith to them, `And ye--who do ye say me to be?'
Mat 16:16 and Simon Peter answering said, `Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.'
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answering said to him, `Happy art thou, Simon Bar-Jona, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to thee, but my Father who is in the heavens.
Mat 16:18 `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;
Mat 16:19 and I will give to thee the keys of the reign of the heavens, and whatever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever thou mayest loose upon the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens.'

 

[mont974x4]

Well first of all Pope linus was appointed by St Peter himself, I am not sure how many succesors to the office of St Peter were appointed this way before the system where the cardinals appointed by the pope go into the conclave and pray for the holy spirit to guide them to choose one from among them. So in effect the pope that succeeds the last pope has already been choosen by the pope and the appostolic succesion continues, From St Peter and Pope Linus right through to Pope Benedict XVI they have been choosen by through a long line of succesion back to Christ himself, Christ appointed Peter, Peter appointed linus so on and so forth, the conclave just allows the holy spirit to play a bigger part.

finally we have the promise of Christ that the office of Peter would be preserved by Christ himself from Evil

"the gates of hell shall not prevail against it"

To be fair that is enough for me, if Christ says it i believe it.

Where is "pope" or Linus in the Bible? I only found one reference to Linus, in 2 Tim 4:21 and it is simply a name of a believer.

 

[INRI2]

Christ certainly did build a Church on earth, and it is all who believe in Him, not people that follow any one denomination. To draw such lines is arrogant and divisive when unity is called for.

You are contradicting yourself, you call for unity, yet you demand more than one denomination. How can their be unity when one denomination calls homosexuality abhorant and another calls it fine, How can their be unity when one denomination says Abortion is a sin and another says its fine. How can their be unity when one denomination says women pastors are fine and another says it is against scripture. How can their be unity when when one denomination says The eucharist is symbolic and another says it is the actual flesh and blood of Christ, There is not denominations within the catholic faith but one church united by the office of St Peter based on the promise of Christ, in the protestant faith their are thousands of denominations all teaching different things. To me this proves to me that protestant faith is flawed since it is unity that Christ called for and protestantism is full of disunity.

Every catholic must confrom and submit themselves to the doctrines of the RCC evey catholic is in full unity in what they believe, otherwise they are not catholic but protesting catholic doctrine (protestants)

Furthermore, we are never encouraged to follow men other than Jesus Himself.

By following the appostolic church in particualr the office of St Peter I am following Jesus Himself because it was Jesus who told us to.

"whoever listens to you listens to me, whoever rejects you rejects me also"

 

[threeinone]

You are contradicting yourself, you call for unity, yet you demand more than one denomination. How can their be unity when one denomination calls homosexuality abhorant and another calls it fine, How can their be unity when one denomination says Abortion is a sin and another says its fine. How can their be unity when one denomination says women pastors are fine and another says it is against scripture. How can their be unity when when one denomination says The eucharist is symbolic and another says it is the actual flesh and blood of Christ, There is not denominations within the catholic faith but one church united by the office of St Peter based on the promise of Christ, in the protestant faith their are thousands of denominations all teaching different things. To me this proves to me that protestant faith is flawed since it is unity that Christ called for and protestantism is full of disunity.

Every catholic must confrom and submit themselves to the doctrines of the RCC evey catholic is in full unity in what they believe, otherwise they are not catholic but protesting catholic doctrine (protestants)



By following the appostolic church in particualr the office of St Peter I am following Jesus Himself because it was Jesus who told us to.

"whoever listens to you listens to me, whoever rejects you rejects me also"

There can be unity without one religion trying to devour all the rest. If we all have to be just one person in order to have unity, then unity is a falacy. Unity comes from working together not all becoming one person. Even the trinity is three, yeah one but three....quite different than one and only one. We are all God's church, not just one of us.

 

[INRI2]

Where is "pope" or Linus in the Bible? I only found one reference to Linus, in 2 Tim 4:21 and it is simply a name of a believer.

Where is martin luther or Calvin or the word Trinity?

The bible only makes up part of our single deposit of faith, as well as sacred scripture we have sacred traditon, the new testiment is a product of sacred tradition, we would not have the bible if we did not have sacred tradition, the word Trinity is from Catholic sacred tradition.

 

[mont974x4]

You are contradicting yourself, you call for unity, yet you demand more than one denomination. How can their be unity when one denomination calls homosexuality abhorant and another calls it fine, How can their be unity when one denomination says Abortion is a sin and another says its fine. How can their be unity when one denomination says women pastors are fine and another says it is against scripture. How can their be unity when when one denomination says The eucharist is symbolic and another says it is the actual flesh and blood of Christ, There is not denominations within the catholic faith but one church united by the office of St Peter based on the promise of Christ, in the protestant faith their are thousands of denominations all teaching different things. To me this proves to me that protestant faith is flawed since it is unity that Christ called for and protestantism is full of disunity.

Every catholic must confrom and submit themselves to the doctrines of the RCC evey catholic is in full unity in what they believe, otherwise they are not catholic but protesting catholic doctrine (protestants)



By following the appostolic church in particualr the office of St Peter I am following Jesus Himself because it was Jesus who told us to.

"whoever listens to you listens to me, whoever rejects you rejects me also"

Those divisions are created by men, as are denominations. I cannot deny the unity in the RCC, however, I can not support all its teachings...praying to Mary and the saints, the authority granted to the pope, and the elitist view of priesthood, for some examples.

I long for the day when we reach Heaven and we have true unity. I also look at the NT church as being far more unified (altho not perfectly) than we are today.

Please share the reference you just quoted from Christ and any references to a pope. I'd truly like to see where you're coming from so I can understand and we can discuss this all fairly.

 

[INRI2]

There can be unity without one religion trying to devour all the rest. If we all have to be just one person in order to have unity, then unity is a falacy. Unity comes from working together not all becoming one person. Even the trinity is three, yeah one but three....quite different than one and only one. We are all God's church, not just one of us.

Yes we are called to be one person, the body of christ, we are individual parts of the one body, but if the leg is disjointed the whole body feels the pain, so no it is not a fallacy we are called to be one person.... the body of christ in the world.

 

[mont974x4]

Where is martin luther or Calvin or the word Trinity?

The bible only makes up part of our single deposit of faith, as well as sacred scripture we have sacred traditon, the new testiment is a product of sacred tradition, we would not have the bible if we did not have sacred tradition, the word Trinity is from Catholic sacred tradition.

There is biblical support for the Trinity where there isn't for many other traditions...that is a key diference

 

[threeinone]

Yes we are called to be one person, the body of christ, we are individual parts of the one body, but if the leg is disjointed the whole body feels the pain, so no it is not a fallacy we are called to be one person.... the body of christ in the world.

But you have decided that the Catholic is the one person and your decision is based on tradition. Not too firm a foundation. No one church, no one person, has a right to claim it all. We are all in this together, not in the Catholic Church but in Christ. The Catholic Church has not got dibs on Christ or anything else. The Catholic Church is just a church like any other church and that is all. Tradition doesn't cut it. All churches have tradition.

 

[INRI2]

Those divisions are created by men, as are denominations. I cannot deny the unity in the RCC, however, I can not support all its teachings...praying to Mary and the saints, the authority granted to the pope, and the elitist view of priesthood, for some examples.

That is fair enough, its a shame you can not put your faith in the teachings of christ and thus extend that faith to the authorty of the office of St Peter as Christ himself did.


I long for the day when we reach Heaven and we have true unity. I also look at the NT church as being far more unified (altho not perfectly) than we are today.

Obviously We pray that our seperated bretheren return to the bossom of Christ and like lambs be fed by the office of St Peter as Christ commanded Peter to do.

Please share the reference you just quoted from Christ

luke 10: 1-16

and any references to a pope. I'd truly like to see where you're coming from so I can understand and we can discuss this all fairly.

although the term "pope" is never used there are many passages that show peter was head of the appostles appointed as so by Christ.

Is 22: 20-22 Eliakim Appointed Prime minster of Kingdom of David I will place the key of the House of David on his shoulder; what he opens, no one can close; what he closes, no one can open.

Mt 16:18 Peter told he will be the rock upon which Christ will build his eternal Church And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of hell will not overpower it.

Mt 16:19 Peter Appointed Prime Minister of Kingdom of Christ. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will have been loosed in heaven.


Lk 22:32 - Peters faith will strenghen his bretheren


Jn 21:17 - Cheif shepherd of Christs flock

Mk 16:7 - angel sent to anounce ressurection to Peter

Lk 24: 34 - Peter first apostle Jesus Appears to after resurection.

Acts 1:13-26 - Peter head of meeting that elected mathias.



Acts 2:14 - Peter leads apostles in preaching at pentecost.

Acts 2:41 - Peter recieves first Converts.

Acts 3:6-7 - Peter preforms first miracle after pentecost.

Acts 5:1-11- Peter inflicts first punishment


Acts 8:21 - Peter excomunicates first heretic (simon magnus)

Acts 10:44-46 Peter is one chosen by Christ to reveal he wants Gentiles admitted into the church.

Acts 15:7 - Peter leads first council in Jeruselem

Acts 15:19 - Peter pronounces first dogmatic decision

Gal 1:18 - Paul after his conversion visits cheif apostle


Mt 10:1-4 - Peters name heads list of apostles, judas is last
Mk 3:16-19 - Peters name heads list of apostles, judas is last
Lk 6:14-16 - Peters name heads list of apostles, judas is last
Acts 1:13 - Peters name heads list of apostles

Lk 9:32 -Peter and his companions
Mk 16:7 - Peter and his companions

Mt 18:21 Peter speaks for apostles
Mk 8:29 Peter speaks for apostles
Lk 8:45 Peter speaks for apostles
Lk 12:41 Peter speaks for apostles
Jn 6:69 Peter speaks for apostles

Peters name occurs 195 time, more than all the rest put together.