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either evolution works on its own..... or it fails. either it has no external intelligence from start to finish or it needs intelligence IN ITS DESIGN.... so by your own words you are leaning towards ID.
But it's not a scientific theory. Science deals in theories about patterns in the observable i.e. material world, and God is neither a pattern nor material.ID is a theory and theories are part of science therefore it is just as much science as the theory of evolution.
The point is, can we PROVE that God is doing it? If you try to involve God, you're crossing the line into including personal beliefs. Thats not science.
As it stands, scientifically, its happening by itself.
semi-blind post: here's my take. Either ID and evolution theory are both science, or they are both religion. Neither of them can be scientifically proven right or wrong. (Can't prove evolution theory wrong because they can just say that it will take more time for something to evolve and we gotta keep waiting and observing for it to happen. Proving evolution theory right would mean seeing something give birth to something else, which is just as scientific as waiting for God to come to earth and reveal Himself to the world).
I guess here, we might have a misunderstanding in definitions. I'm leaning toward God using natural selection to design human beings exactly the way he wanted to.
If you want to call that ID, then I'm leaning towards ID. If you want to call that theistic evolution, then I'm leaning towards theistic evolution.
Can you prove it?
The OP is asking if its science or not. I don't doubt what you believe, nor am I trying to say your wrong. But this is where faith comes in. You have faith that God is back there controlling it, that God designed it, that its God's work. You can't scientifically prove it. We can only prove that species do adapt to their environment and it has to do with genetics.
A philosophy of science question: Intelligent Design
Hey, I know there is a section on here that deals more with philosophy/science than the singles section (ok, the singles section doesnt deal with philosophy or science at all) but there are many people here with many interests so Im posting it here. Im obviously a Christian, and I do believe God created us, and all things. Other people who believe similarly believe in intelligent design as a view that has scientific potential. By this I mean many scientists who believe in intelligent design believe they can find evidence of a designer through the scientific method.
One of the main analogies that intelligent design proponents have used is the watch analogy. The idea is if a man is walking in the woods and comes upon a watch, the watch has certain characteristics that make it apparent that the watch was created by a person (an intelligent designer). Similarly, humans (and all life) are very complex and therefore also must have been created by an intelligent designer. Heres the basic logic behind it.
1. A watch is complex.
2. A watch has an intelligent designer.
3. Life is complex.
4. Therefore, life also has an intelligent designer.
Personally, one problem Ive always had with intelligent design (obviously I believe God created everything, I just dont believe there a very good scientific argument to show this or at least I havent seen one) is the fact that there would be no point of comparison with anything not designed.
Heres what I mean. Basically, the watch idea works because we know that there are things created by humans and there are things not created by humans. If some alien life form came to earth and really studied human things made by humans, it would theoretically be able to differentiate human made stuff like a watch, from non-human made stuff like a stone. However, since God has created everything, we cant say a living creature looks like it was created because when you look at a non-created thing like a stone they are different. No, theyre both created. Or if for instance if we believed God only created the earth, and the rest of the universe was not created, one could create tests to see if there is an actual material difference. But since everything is created by God it is all intelligently designed material so determining whats intelligently designed isnt feasible there is just nothing that is not created to compare it to.
I dont see how one could test to see if something is intelligently designed if every single thing in the universe is intelligently designed.
Therefore, since there is no way to test intelligent design, even theoretically, it cannot be considered science.
Is my thinking off? Am I thinking about intelligent design all wrong? If intelligent design had some serious science supporting it, I would have no problem accepting it. However, it doesnt matter to me too much. My Christianity is based off of my faith, and has nothing to do with science experiments. Still, intelligent design is intriguing.
...scientifically.That also means nothing in history can be proven.
...scientifically.
Science is not the only way of gaining knowledge.
We already have the week, but now an excuse to party all week long.ukraina said:it's time for an holiday celebrating intelligent design.
You quoted the watchmaker argument which is a part of the teleological argument. Which is also a philosophical argument for God. ID which is in fact a flawed system of reasoning with a veneer of science is very separate from this. I just wanted to avoid you attacking Aquinas' reasoning which is very good, and lumping it in with the reasoning of those responsible for ID.I know almost nothing about the teleological argument, I admit. However, isn't that more of a philosophical argument for God, than a scientific argument?
I'm asking if ID can be considered good science. I already know it has poked holes in evolutionary theory, and has produced some really interesting philosophy.
A philosophy of science question: Intelligent Design
Hey, I know there is a section on here that deals more with philosophy/science than the singles section (ok, the singles section doesnt deal with philosophy or science at all) but there are many people here with many interests so Im posting it here. Im obviously a Christian, and I do believe God created us, and all things. Other people who believe similarly believe in intelligent design as a view that has scientific potential. By this I mean many scientists who believe in intelligent design believe they can find evidence of a designer through the scientific method.
One of the main analogies that intelligent design proponents have used is the watch analogy. The idea is if a man is walking in the woods and comes upon a watch, the watch has certain characteristics that make it apparent that the watch was created by a person (an intelligent designer). Similarly, humans (and all life) are very complex and therefore also must have been created by an intelligent designer. Heres the basic logic behind it.
1. A watch is complex.
2. A watch has an intelligent designer.
3. Life is complex.
4. Therefore, life also has an intelligent designer.
Personally, one problem Ive always had with intelligent design (obviously I believe God created everything, I just dont believe there a very good scientific argument to show this or at least I havent seen one) is the fact that there would be no point of comparison with anything not designed.
Heres what I mean. Basically, the watch idea works because we know that there are things created by humans and there are things not created by humans. If some alien life form came to earth and really studied human things made by humans, it would theoretically be able to differentiate human made stuff like a watch, from non-human made stuff like a stone. However, since God has created everything, we cant say a living creature looks like it was created because when you look at a non-created thing like a stone they are different. No, theyre both created. Or if for instance if we believed God only created the earth, and the rest of the universe was not created, one could create tests to see if there is an actual material difference. But since everything is created by God it is all intelligently designed material so determining whats intelligently designed isnt feasible there is just nothing that is not created to compare it to.
I dont see how one could test to see if something is intelligently designed if every single thing in the universe is intelligently designed.
Therefore, since there is no way to test intelligent design, even theoretically, it cannot be considered science.
Is my thinking off? Am I thinking about intelligent design all wrong? If intelligent design had some serious science supporting it, I would have no problem accepting it. However, it doesnt matter to me too much. My Christianity is based off of my faith, and has nothing to do with science experiments. Still, intelligent design is intriguing.
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