Intelligences

[Rescued One]

"Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; …for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them" (Abr. 3:22-23).

Joseph Smith taught: "God himself, finding he was in the midst of spirits and glory, because he was more intelligent, saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself. The relationship we have with God places us in a situation to advance in knowledge. He has power to institute laws to instruct the weaker intelligences, that they may be exalted with himself, so that they might have one glory upon another, and all that knowledge, power, glory, and intelligence, which is requisite in order to save them" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 354).

What is an intelligence?

Elder Joseph Fielding Smith gave this caution in 1936: Some of our writers have endeavored to explain what an intelligence is, but to do so is futile, for we have never been given any insight into this matter beyond what the Lord has fragmentarily revealed. We know, however, that there is something called intelligence which always existed. It is the real eternal part of man, which was not created or made. This intelligence combined with the spirit constitutes a spiritual identity or individual.
(Answers to Gospel Questions,Vol. 4, p. 127)


"Through that birth process, self-existing intelligence was organized into individual spirit beings"
Marion G. Romney, Ensign, Nov. 1978, p. 14

There is something that is not created or made. The scriptures called it "intelligence," which at a certain stage in the pre-existence was organized into a "spirit."
The Teachings of Harold B. Lee, p.74

Are all intelligences equal? No, some are more intelligent than others.

Abraham 3
18 Howbeit that he made the greater star; as, also, if there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum, or eternal.
19 And the Lord said unto me: These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent than they all.
20 The Lord thy God sent his angel to deliver thee from the hands of the priest of Elkenah.
21 I dwell in the midst of them all; I now, therefore, have come down unto thee to declare unto thee the works which my hands have made, wherein my wisdom excelleth them all, for I rule in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath, in all wisdom and prudence, over all the intelligences thine eyes have seen from the beginning; I came down in the beginning in the midst of all the intelligences thou hast seen...

Obviously, all the spirit children in pre-mortal life had free agency so that they could choose to follow Satan or Christ. But upon arriving on earth, the knowledge of good and evil was taken away and they must have accidentally chosen to eat the forbidden fruit because they did not know if the choice was good or evil. How did they accidentally choose to eat the forbidden fruit as LDS say Heavenly Father wanted them to do?



Any comments?

 

[Rescued One]

“There must be leaders, presiding officers, and those who are worthy and able to take command. During the ages in which we dwelt in the premortal state we not only developed our various characteristics and showed our worthiness and ability, or the lack of it, but we were also where such progress could be observed. It is reasonable to believe that there was a Church organization there. The heavenly beings were living in a perfectly arranged society. Every person knew his place. Priesthood, without any question, had been conferred and the leaders were chosen to officiate. Ordinances pertaining to that pre-existence were required and the love of God prevailed. Under such conditions it was natural for our Father to discern and choose those who were most worthy and evaluate the talents of each individual. He knew not only what each of us could do, but also what each of us would do when put to the test and when responsibility was given us. Then, when the time came for our habitation on mortal earth, all things were prepared and the servants of the Lord chosen and ordained to their respective missions.” (Smith, The Way to Perfection, p. 50–51.)

God knew what Adam and Eve would do according to this. But, remember that Adam and Eve could not freely choose between good and evil if they did not yet know the difference.

To say that Adam realized that God’s command to remain with his wife (see Moses 4:18) was more important than His command to abstain from the fruit, would be erroneous. If he knew that, he also knew that God actually wanted him to eat to eat the fruit, but had forbidden him to do so.

15 And to bring about his eternal purposes in the end of man, after he had created our first parents, and the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and in fine, all things which are created, it must needs be that there was an opposition; even the forbidden fruit in opposition to the tree of life; the one being sweet and the other bitter.
16 Wherefore, the Lord God gave unto man that he should act for himself. Wherefore, man could not act for himself save it should be that he was enticed by the one or the other. (Nephi 2:15-16)

And the Gods said: We will bless them. And the Gods said: We will cause them to be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it, and to have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. (Abraham 4:28)

Having children was caused by the Gods.

“This was a transgression of the law, but not a sin in the strict sense, for it was something Adam and Eve had to do” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p.115)

__________________________

To help explain that Adam and Eve did not sin when they partook of the forbidden fruit, read the following statement from Elder Dallin H. Oaks:

“It was Eve who first transgressed the limits of Eden in order to initiate the conditions of mortality. Her act, whatever its nature, was formally a transgression but eternally a glorious necessity to open the doorway toward eternal life. Adam showed his wisdom by doing the same. …

“… We celebrate Eve’s act and honor her wisdom and courage in the great episode called the Fall. … Elder Joseph Fielding Smith said: ‘I never speak of the part Eve took in this fall as a sin, nor do I accuse Adam of a sin. … This was a transgression of the law, but not a sin.’ …
Lesson 4: “Because of My Transgression My Eyes Are Opened”, Old Testament Gospel Doctrine Teacher’s Manual, p. 12

lds.org

Adam showed his wisdom? Was he one of the superior intelligences? How did he show this? How did he have this wisdom if he did not even know how to procreate?

"• What were the results of the Fall for Adam and Eve—and for us? (See Moses 4:22–29; 5:10–11; 6:48–49, 55–56; 2 Nephi 2:22–23; 9:6; Genesis 3:16–23.) You may want to list some of these results on the chalkboard. Point out that many of these truths about the Fall have been restored through the Prophet Joseph Smith and are not generally known in the world.

a. Adam and Eve were able to have children, which allowed us to come to earth and receive mortal bodies (Moses 5:11; 6:48; 2 Nephi 2:23, 25)."
Lesson 4: “Because of My Transgression My Eyes Are Opened”, Old Testament Gospel Doctrine Teacher’s Manual, 12

 

[bbbbbbb]

When I first came to this site I had a discussion on a thread where I concluded that the Mormon Adam and Eve were dumb as rocks because, unlike all the other beasts in the Garden of Eden, they didn't have a clue regarding procreation. So much for their superior intelligence and wisdom!

 

[fatboys]

When I first came to this site I had a discussion on a thread where I concluded that the Mormon Adam and Eve were dumb as rocks because, unlike all the other beasts in the Garden of Eden, they didn't have a clue regarding procreation. So much for their superior intelligence and wisdom!

Neither Adam or Eve or animals had a clue how to procreate. Just as Christ was the first fruits of the resurrection, Adam and Eve begin the first fruits of procreation.

 

[skylark1]

Neither Adam or Eve or animals had a clue how to procreate. Just as Christ was the first fruits of the resurrection, Adam and Eve begin the first fruits of procreation.

Hi fatboys,

Could you please provide a referece from your standard works that the animals didn't have a clue how to procreate until after the fall? I looked in what I thought were the obvious places, and can't find mention of it.

 

[RufustheRed]

Neither Adam or Eve or animals had a clue how to procreate. Just as Christ was the first fruits of the resurrection, Adam and Eve begin the first fruits of procreation.

How do you know THAT?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Neither Adam or Eve or animals had a clue how to procreate. Just as Christ was the first fruits of the resurrection, Adam and Eve begin the first fruits of procreation.

So, the animals were dumb as rocks too? And you know this how?

 

[BarryK]

Neither Adam or Eve or animals had a clue how to procreate. Just as Christ was the first fruits of the resurrection, Adam and Eve begin the first fruits of procreation.

I guess they had to wait for the Sex-Ed class at the local public school?

 

[skylark1]

Obviously, all the spirit children in pre-mortal life had free agency so that they could choose to follow Satan or Christ. But upon arriving on earth, the knowledge of good and evil was taken away and they must have accidentally chosen to eat the forbidden fruit because they did not know if the choice was good or evil. How did they accidentally choose to eat the forbidden fruit as LDS say Heavenly Father wanted them to do?



Any comments?

I agree that it is curious that one would have knowlege of good and evil in pre-mortal life, and be free to exercise their free agency, yet not know good from evil when they were given a body here on earth. Why would they lose knowledge of good and evil, then have to disobey God and eat of forbidden fruit in order to get this knowledge back?

Also, since this thread is about intelligences, do LDS teach that intelligences have knowledge of good and evil, or is this something that came about when intelligences were organized into spirit children?



Edit: I think that I found the answer ro my own question. I trust that someone will correct me if I am mistaken.

Moral agency is an inherent part of our existence. The Lord revealed to Joseph Smith: “Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

“All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.” 5

Heavenly Father is indeed the Father of our spirits 6, and we are created in His image. 7 We continued to have our moral agency following our spiritual birth. Our spirits were born innocent, 8 but some became more intelligent, noble, and great than others 9 because they exercised more faith and performed greater works in premortal life. 10 During this period, Satan exercised his agency in attempting to destroy ours, 11 and many chose to follow him. 12 In the Grand Council during premortal life, we each exercised our agency; there were not then, nor will there ever be, any neutrals. 13

L. Lionel Kendrick, “Our Moral Agency,” Ensign, Mar 1996, 28​

This seems to be saying that moral agency, and therefore the knowledge of good and evil, has always existed, even prior to creation as spirit children.

 

[Rescued One]

The Light of Christ is the divine energy, power, or influence that proceeds from God through Christ and gives life and light to all things. The Light of Christ influences people for good and prepares them to receive the Holy Ghost. One manifestation of the Light of Christ is what we call a conscience.
lds.org

The phrase “light of Christ” does not appear in the Bible, although the principles that apply to it are frequently mentioned therein. The precise phrase is found in Alma 28: 14, Moro. 7: 18, and D&C 88: 7. Biblical phrases that are sometimes synonymous to the term “light of Christ” are “spirit of the Lord” and “light of life” (see, for example, John 1: 4; John 8: 12). The “spirit of the Lord,” however, sometimes is used with reference to the Holy Ghost, and so must not be taken in every case as having reference to the light of Christ.
The light of Christ is just what the words imply: enlightenment, knowledge, and an uplifting, ennobling, persevering influence that comes upon mankind because of Jesus Christ. For instance, Christ is “the true light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world” (D&C 93: 2; John 1: 9). The light of Christ fills the “immensity of space” and is the means by which Christ is able to be “in all things, and is through all things, and is round about all things.” It “giveth life to all things” and is “the law by which all things are governed.” It is also “the light that quickeneth” man’s understanding (see D&C 88: 6-13, 41). In this manner, the light of Christ is related to man’s conscience and tells him right from wrong (cf. Moro. 7: 12-19).
The light of Christ should not be confused with the personage of the Holy Ghost, for the light of Christ is not a personage at all. Its influence is preliminary to and preparatory to one’s receiving the Holy Ghost. The light of Christ will lead the honest soul who “hearkeneth to the voice” to find the true gospel and the true Church and thereby receive the Holy Ghost (see D&C 84: 46-48). Additional references are Alma 19: 6; Alma 26: 3; D&C 20: 27.
bible dictionary
lds.org

1 Verily, thus saith the Lord: It shall come to pass that every soul who forsaketh his sins and cometh unto me, and calleth on my name, and obeyeth my voice, and keepeth my commandments, shall see my face and know that I am;
2 And that I am the true light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world;
3 And that I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one— (Doctrine & Covenants 93)

29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.
30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.
31 Behold, here is the agency of man, and here is the condemnation of man; because that which was from the beginning is plainly manifest unto them, and they receive not the light.
32 And every man whose spirit receiveth not the light is under condemnation.

If every man, Adam included, has the light of Christ, how could man/Adam unknowingly transgress in the Garden of Eden?

Until a person disobeys God, he has this light. (LDS teaching)

And that wicked one cometh and taketh away light and truth, through disobedience, from the children of men, and because of the tradition of their fathers. (Doctrine & Covenants 93:39)

So when Adam ate the fruit his eyes were not opened for the first time; instead, darkness came over him.

 

[Rescued One]

I agree that it is curious that one would have knowlege of good and evil in pre-mortal life, and be free to exercise their free agency, yet not know good from evil when they were given a body here on earth. Why would they lose knowledge of good and evil, then have to disobey God and eat of forbidden fruit in order to get this knowledge back?

Also, since this thread is about intelligences, do LDS teach that intelligences have knowledge of good and evil, or is this something that came about when intelligences were organized into spirit children?



Edit: I think that I found the answer ro my own question. I trust that someone will correct me if I am mistaken.

Moral agency is an inherent part of our existence. The Lord revealed to Joseph Smith: “Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

“All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.” 5

Heavenly Father is indeed the Father of our spirits 6, and we are created in His image. 7 We continued to have our moral agency following our spiritual birth. Our spirits were born innocent, 8 but some became more intelligent, noble, and great than others 9 because they exercised more faith and performed greater works in premortal life. 10 During this period, Satan exercised his agency in attempting to destroy ours, 11 and many chose to follow him. 12 In the Grand Council during premortal life, we each exercised our agency; there were not then, nor will there ever be, any neutrals. 13

L. Lionel Kendrick, “Our Moral Agency,” Ensign, Mar 1996, 28​

This seems to be saying that moral agency, and therefore the knowledge of good and evil, has always existed, even prior to creation as spirit children.

I would have to agree with you based on what you posted as well as my post above.

 

[Rescued One]

Hi fatboys,

Could you please provide a referece from your standard works that the animals didn't have a clue how to procreate until after the fall? I looked in what I thought were the obvious places, and can't find mention of it.

"And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew. For I, the Lord God, created all things, of which I have spoken, spiritually, before they were naturally upon the face of the earth. For I, the Lord God, had not caused it to rain upon the face of the earth. And I, the Lord God, had created all the children of men; and not yet a man to till the ground; for in heaven created I them; and there was not yet flesh upon the earth, neither in the water, neither in the air;"
Pearl of Great Price, Moses 3:5

The earth had its paradisical glory before the Fall. There was no death and some LDS believe there was no procreation by the animals.

"And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the Garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; . . .

"And they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin.

"But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things.

"Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy" (2 Nephi 2:22-25).


"However, whether other forms of life passed through procreation and death before the fall is not an issue on which the Church doctrine provides any official stance."
Mormonism and science/Procreation before the Fall - FAIRMormon

 

[bbbbbbb]

I would be interested to hear from Vanhin if he believes that animals in the Garden of Eden were ignorant of procreation and if he considers this to be part of orthodox Mormonism. As you have stated, Phoebe Ann, some LDS (including fatboys) believe this and some apparently do not.

 

[fatboys]

Hi fatboys,

Could you please provide a referece from your standard works that the animals didn't have a clue how to procreate until after the fall? I looked in what I thought were the obvious places, and can't find mention of it.

Logic dictates that if the world was in the same state as Adam and Eve, and since the fall affected the world, and since death had not yet come to the earth, it would make sense that if they could not die, they could not have babies.

 

[fatboys]

I guess they had to wait for the Sex-Ed class at the local public school?

Gee I hope that is not where you learned it.

 

[OmahaLDS]

Based on my personal study I would say that the issue is not one of knowledge/ignorance, but rather one of action. I am not sure if there would have been procreation in the Garden of Eden for the various flora and fauna.

Nevertheless, while an interesting speculative question, I am not sue it has any real practical or theological importance.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Based on my personal study I would say that the issue is not one of knowledge/ignorance, but rather one of action. I am not sure if there would have been procreation in the Garden of Eden for the various flora and fauna.

Nevertheless, while an interesting speculative question, I am not sue it has any real practical or theological importance.

Well, that's a real bummer. No flowers in the Garden of Eden. What did the poor little bees do without flowers? No fruit. No nuts. Poor Adam and Eve. Hmmmm. Well, there must have been at least one exception to the logic of not procreating. That would be the tree in the midst of the Garden which did have fruit. Adam and Eve must have been mighty hungry by the time they were forced by Heavenly Father's Catch-22 proposition to eat of that fruit.

 

[fatboys]

Well, that's a real bummer. No flowers in the Garden of Eden. What did the poor little bees do without flowers? No fruit. No nuts. Poor Adam and Eve. Hmmmm. Well, there must have been at least one exception to the logic of not procreating. That would be the tree in the midst of the Garden which did have fruit. Adam and Eve must have been mighty hungry by the time they were forced by Heavenly Father's Catch-22 proposition to eat of that fruit.

Their bodies did not need food. They were perfect bodies made by God.

 

[Katya]

If they didn't need food, then why would there be tree's bearing fruit?

 

[skylark1]

Their bodies did not need food. They were perfect bodies made by God.

If Adam and Eve had no need to eat, then it doesn't make sense that God would have told them that they were free to eat of any tree in the garden, save one.

Genesis 2

16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
​

LDS Scripture also states that God gave Adam and Eve permission to eat of any tree, save one.

Book of Moses 3

16 And I, the Lord God, commanded the man, saying: Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat,

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it, nevertheless, thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given unto thee; but, remember that I forbid it, for in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
​