Intellectualism

[charityagape]

Sure.

18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written:
"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."
20Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. (1 Cor. 1)
​

But then stupidity hinders faith, too, especially the willful kind of stupidity--and the fact is, some intellectuals have that kind of stupidity.

~Jim

Faith means trusting in advance what will only make sense in reverse.​

Good post.

 

[Tamara224]

Well said, JEBrady!


I'm an intellectual. I enjoy intellectual pursuits. That's the way God wired my brain when He created me. I like gaining knowledge. I like thinking about abstract, theoretical things. I like knowing things. And I am not ashamed of that, nor am I about to go bury my talent in the dirt and not work towards increasing it. I have my place in the Body, too.

That being said, just as with everyone else, my talent has it's own unique temptations with it and my personality/nature is prone to certain things that others may not struggle with as much. I say "may not" because I think that the struggle to put our trust fully in God and die to self is one we all equally deal with it just takes different forms.

My temptation is to rely on my own understanding and not trust God for everything even when I don't understand. I want to know and often God leaves me clueless just so I'll have to have faith in Him.

So, yes, just as any other human trait, talent or blessing, intellectualism can be a stumbling block to faith.

But, also as with anything else, it's really pride that is the stumbling block - it just takes the form of intellectualism. It's when we get to thinking that we can rely on our own abilities, we don't need God, we are "wise in our own eyes" that we stumble. When we humble ourselves and seek God for our every need (and acknowledge that we need Him for everything), then our faith will not be harmed by the use of our intellects (or anything else).

 

[map4]

Well said, JEBrady!


I'm an intellectual. I enjoy intellectual pursuits. That's the way God wired my brain when He created me. I like gaining knowledge. I like thinking about abstract, theoretical things. I like knowing things. And I am not ashamed of that, nor am I about to go bury my talent in the dirt and not work towards increasing it. I have my place in the Body, too.

That being said, just as with everyone else, my talent has it's own unique temptations with it and my personality/nature is prone to certain things that others may not struggle with as much. I say "may not" because I think that the struggle to put our trust fully in God and die to self is one we all equally deal with it just takes different forms.

My temptation is to rely on my own understanding and not trust God for everything even when I don't understand. I want to know and often God leaves me clueless just so I'll have to have faith in Him.

So, yes, just as any other human trait, talent or blessing, intellectualism can be a stumbling block to faith.

But, also as with anything else, it's really pride that is the stumbling block - it just takes the form of intellectualism. It's when we get to thinking that we can rely on our own abilities, we don't need God, we are "wise in our own eyes" that we stumble. When we humble ourselves and seek God for our every need (and acknowledge that we need Him for everything), then our faith will not be harmed by the use of our intellects (or anything else).

Good post. I especially like the last paragraph.

 

[New_Wineskin]

But then stupidity hinders faith, too, especially the willful kind of stupidity--and the fact is, some intellectuals have that kind of stupidity.

~Jim

Good post .

In the 70's and 80's , there was this charasmatic group ( turned out to be a cult ) that was involved in college "ministry" . They spread out on campuses , recruited people and sent them out to new campuses to conquer . In the process of making their members compliant , they would accuse them of over intellectualizing things - which was turned into some kind of spirit or of going against "faith" . Remember , I am talking about college students . They were at those places to use their brains . They are introduced to these people ; told to turn their brains off ; and , they did .

 

[JimB]

Good post .

In the 70's and 80's , there was this charasmatic group ( turned out to be a cult ) that was involved in college "ministry" . They spread out on campuses , recruited people and sent them out to new campuses to conquer . In the process of making their members compliant , they would accuse them of over intellectualizing things - which was turned into some kind of spirit or of going against "faith" . Remember , I am talking about college students . They were at those places to use their brains . They are introduced to these people ; told to turn their brains off ; and , they did .

I am no intellectual but I certainly do not have a problem with them. They keep us from being overly touchy-feely in our religion. I am familiar with the group you are talking about, even helped rescue a student from a Children of God compound outside Brenham, Texas c.1975. They did pride themselves in knowing “God’s word” (i.e., memorizing long KJV texts) but they were also subservient to their leaders demands and taught not to think outside the prison cell they were in.

When I came into Pentecostalism in 1964 a similar anti-intellectualism prevailed. I was a junior at the University of Houston at the time and was told by my pastor (AOG) that I should not go to a secl’r university but to their denominational Bible college instead. None of the AOG presbytery that issued my first credentials had a high school diploma and were skeptical of me because I attended a state university. There was not a college-educated member of the church I attended and, in fact, most of the board members were proud high school dropouts. Theologians who offered non-fundamentalist ideas were mocked and PHD for them meant Post Hole Digger. All I needed, they said, was the anointin’ not edumacation. That has all changed in Pentecostal ranks, but there are still holdouts for a dummed-down clergy. To the holdouts a proper education means a proper indoctrination in one of their insulated Bible schools.

~Jim

Faith means trusting in advance what will only make sense in reverse.​

 

[New_Wineskin]

I am no intellectual but I certainly do not have a problem with them. They keep us from being overly touchy-feely in our religion. I am familiar with the group you are talking about, even helped rescue a student from a Children of God compound outside Brenham, Texas c.1975. They did pride themselves in knowing “God’s word” (i.e., memorizing long KJV texts) but they were also subservient to their leaders demands and taught not to think outside the prison cell they were in.

When I came into Pentecostalism in 1964 a similar anti-intellectualism prevailed. I was a junior at the University of Houston at the time and was told by my pastor (AOG) that I should not go to a secl’r university but to their denominational Bible college instead. None of the AOG presbytery that issued my first credentials had a high school diploma and were skeptical of me because I attended a state university. There was not a college-educated member of the church I attended and, in fact, most of the board members were proud high school dropouts. Theologians who offered non-fundamentalist ideas were mocked and PHD for them meant Post Hole Digger. All I needed, they said, was the anointin’ not edumacation. That has all changed in Pentecostal ranks, but there are still holdouts for a dummed-down clergy. To the holdouts a proper education means a proper indoctrination in one of their insulated Bible schools.

~Jim

Great input for the thread !!

The group to which I referred was MCM ( didn't want to say at first because a lot still think Maranatha was all of "God" ) .

It has always amazed me that "teachers" and most christians all attempt to be "logical" like Paul and present their sermons as logical arguments . But , most do not have a clue as to what real logic really is or how t oapply it . Yet , those leaders of whom you spoke and others disliked education getting in the way . One cannot have it both ways . But they do .

Of course , people can and do go too far the other way . Like Peter , their vast though limited knowledge can take precedence over what they may hear from the Lord .

 

[Yodas_Prodigy]

I agree, her loyalty was never fully to Jesus, but i always wonder how highly intellectual people could not have faith.

R.C. Sproul is a brilliant Christian man. He wrote a book called, "If there is a God, Why are there Athiests?" He discusses that there has been debate amongst brilliant minds on both sides of the argument. It really comes down to the unregenerate mind does not receive the things of God.

 

[Hockey_Fan]

I never felt like faith and intellect were at odds with one another. For me, what I know helped build my faith. But it also showed me I could not know everything.

Guess it really depends on the individual. I just get offended when people want to characterize all Christians as dumb or anti-intellectual.

 

[Tenebrae]

I tend to figure if God had a problem with intellect he would have stuffed the space between my ears with news paper.

 

[New_Wineskin]

I never felt like faith and intellect were at odds with one another. For me, what I know helped build my faith. But it also showed me I could not know everything.

Guess it really depends on the individual. I just get offended when people want to characterize all Christians as dumb or anti-intellectual.

If christians didn't appear to be dumb or anti-intellectual , they wouldn't be characterized as such . They are so easily swayed by "experts" ( their teachers and such ) and spout their doctrines word for word . Then again ... that is exactly what their leaders like .

 

[Lemmiwinks]

Intellectual pride might hinder a relationship with God, and with other people. No one likes an arrogant know-it-all.

 

[JimB]

Does intellectualism hinder faith?

I ask because I had a friend who I went to grad school with who was at one time a professing Christian, became agnostic, and then told me one day about a year into our grad program that she didn't understand how I could know all that I know and be so smart and still have faith in God.

Personally, I think anti-intellectualism is just as great a hinderance to faith as the other extreme.

~Jim

Faith means trusting in advance what will only make sense in reverse.​

 

[LogicalChristian]

I know my intellect, and logic hindered me finding God. I tried to use logic to disprove God... It didn't work out to well for me. Or, perhaps it did!