Insteresting Texts About a "prophet"

SwordmanJr

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This whole thing reminds me of the sorts of people who try and argue for biblical figures being either "white" or "black" based on words in the Bible...

As you know, we're not dealing with Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, but rather Arabic written in the seventh or later centuries, which are much more recent than the Hebrew texts of the Bible.
So, what's the solid basis, if any, that would cause us to think there is some parallel with what you said about other texts and literary works and the writings of islam?

Jr
 
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Occams Barber

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If you have reason to doubt Muhammed was white, then what's your proof?

Jr
If you reread @ViaCrucis in post #18 you'll understand that the concept of 'whiteness' you are using is peculiar to English usage. For instance, the term 'white man' suggests far more than complexion colour. The term embodies a more complex cultural understanding of status and ethnicity. 'White' typically also includes the concept of a Caucasian ethnic type.

'White' in Arabic can be translated in a number of different ways. There are several shades of white. 'White' can also be used metaphorically to convey purity or perfection or status. Unfortunately a simplistic word-for-word translation does not convey a cultural understanding of the term.

None of this amounts to 'proof' that Muhammad was not white in the sense we understand the term. It does however cast doubt on your interpretation. The issue is far more complex than you would like it to be.

From Black Arabia: Prophet Muhammad, the Arabs and the Many Shades of Blackness. The embedded quotes suggest Muhammad was not white.

In Classical Arabic Tradition several shades and hues of blackness, several shades of brownness, and several shades of whiteness were distinguished. There are very black complexions with red hues (e.g. daghmān) and very black complexions with yellow hues (e.g. aṣḥam). Both of these complexion-types exist in Africa today, as elsewhere. The most extreme degree of blackness is hālik, ‘pitch-black’. The last stage of blackness is asmar, which is actually a brown.

The question is thus not whether or not the ancient Arabs, and thus the Arab Prophet, were black or not. The clearly self-identified as black. The question is: which shade of black were they?

The Arabs generally self-identified as akhdar, ādam, and asmar which range from very dark brown to normal brown (which is a much darker color than tan). They tended to disparage and distance themselves from the extreme pitch-blackness like hālik and attributed this to certain African groups.

Regarding the prophet Muhammad, Al-Tirmidhi, in his Jami’ al-Sahih (VI:69 no. 1754), reports on the authority of the famous Companion of the Prophet, Anas b. Malik:

"The Messenger of Allah was of medium stature, neither tall nor short, [with] a beautiful, dark brown-complexioned body (hasan al-jism asmar al-lawn). His hair was neither curly nor completely straight and when he walked he leant forward."
Al-Tirmidhi reports in his al-Shama’il al-Muhammadiyyah (#1), also on the authority of Anas b. Malik,
"The Messenger of Allah (s) was neither tall, such that he would stand out, nor was he short. He was not albino-white (al-abyad al-amhaq), nor was he deep dark brown (ādam). His hair was neither very curly nor completely straight. Allah commissioned him towards the end of his fortieth year. He remained in Mecca for ten years and in Medina for ten years. Allah caused him to pass away at the turn of his sixtieth year and there was not found on his head and beard [as much as] twenty white hairs."
This report does not stand in contradiction to the other reports according to which the Prophet was dark brown-skinned, because asmar is not ādam. According to classifications of the Arabic linguists such al-Tha’labi, ādam is a more excessive blackness than asmar. What is therefore denied here is that Muhammad was one of the more excessively black Arabs, like the Banu Sulaym maybe.
 
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ViaCrucis

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As you know, we're not dealing with Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, but rather Arabic written in the seventh or later centuries, which are much more recent than the Hebrew texts of the Bible.
So, what's the solid basis, if any, that would cause us to think there is some parallel with what you said about other texts and literary works and the writings of islam?

Jr

Because it wasn't written by modern western Europeans.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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