Insights on the touching yourself...er, debate

[circa02]

Hay guys, Haven't posted in awhile. I am about to ask for advice, but I offer a warning. I Do not respond well to abrasive or argumentative replies. I seek help, no more, no less.

Now the subject is masturbation. In my introduction poat to this site, I stated:

"I believe masturbation CAN be a sin, but not necessarily. For a long time I prayed to God as to weather it is wrong or right, and from what the Holy spirit tells me, if it is used as a way of purging lustful thoughts, then it is alright. I always listen for the voice of guilt to make sure, of-course."

Now while I still believe this (And unless someone can offer a TRULLY new and unique insight that has not been discussed here before, I'm not interested in a rebuttal of this belief) I feel that the WAY I am purging my lustful thoughts is not the best solution. I try to limit my thoughts that facilitate masturbation to either a married situation, or more successfully on quick, brief flashes of, well I don't think I need to explain what the the usual stuff is. The former I have no problem with, but the latter is becoming trying on my soul. As I've said, I genuinely listen to God for any warnings of wrongdoing on my part, and while I presently feel no warnings from my conscience, AKA God, I feel it would be better to avoid the "dirty" thoughts that facilitate in my relief. I probably should try to exclusively use the married difficulty in my mind, but as I said before, I have difficulty doing that. I will pray on that, but what I want from you guys is to hear about any alternatives I have not heard about. I will repeat what I've already heard here and state my reasons for rejecting them.

Option 1. No masturbation whatsoever, rely on wet dreams. My objection to this answer is a little complicated. Perhaps a little background would help. I sexually matured, mentally speaking quite early, but it wasn't until I was 17 that I masturbated for the first time. Before that I went crazy with erections that never went away and a nonstop onslaught of lustful thoughts. After I started Masterbating these impulses decreased like, a thousand percent. And for the record, I have had maybe two wet dreams in my life, so that doesn't seem to work for me. So a "hands off" aproach is out.

Option 2. Masturbation without thought. When I first started masturbating I did it this way, but it took me about 20 minutes too, well u know. Every time I've tried to do it that way since, well lets just say I I'm not that physically strong LOL!

Before I finish this I want to ask one more question. For those who believe that the answer is no masturbation, I am curious. How is it that you can be fine with this when, as a result of building hormone production, you are being assaulted continuously with lustful thoughts, and as a result in a medical condition known as "extreme horniness" It is not just a matter of controlling your thoughts; there is the physical aspect that makes one lustful that we cannot help. Now before anyone thinks I'm neglecting the influence of God, hold on. I absolutely KNOW that God could stop me or anyone from having lustful thoughts. He's God, all things are possible with him. But when was the last time you saw God do that with anyone? God doesn't take away our options like that, it would defeat the purpose of free will. We can't pray to God and ask Him to "make me not sin." As much as I wish He would do that, God doesn't take away the responsibility He gave us with his blessing of free will, which allows us to truly Love Him.

Thank you if you have read this far. I appreciate any insight you guys can give me.

 

[cyberwood]

My friend in Christ, thank you for sharing your struggles with all of us. It is often in our struggles that we can fellowship and glorify the Lord - let's use this opportunity to 'keep the focus' on our savior Jesus Christ, who wills us to do the impossible.

I believe masturbation CAN be a sin, but not necessarily. For a long time I prayed to God as to weather it is wrong or right, and from what the Holy spirit tells me, if it is used as a way of purging lustful thoughts, then it is alright. I always listen for the voice of guilt to make sure, of-course.

I'm right there with you man. I have viewed masturbation as a needed release, so that I could focus on God and loving others. I just couldn't do that if I was basically 'dying' - we both know how that feels. I started when I was 12, and I am 23 now - I think the longest between then and now without masterbating was probably around 2weeks. I just couldn't avoid it, it's too strong an urge for me.

No masturbation whatsoever

This is the weight of God's law, and our impossibly hopeless situation to overcome His law. Jesus told us that if we even *think* on another in lust (whether in front of them or in private), we have turned from our Lord and taken His gifts. It was my burden, and I couldn't overcome it.

But I bear witness to the power of our Lord Jesus Christ to perform the impossible - I don't *feel* these same sexual urges. It's amazing - A few months ago, I would have written the same as what you wrote, but somehow the desire is just gone, and in it's place is a desire to please the Lord, and give glory to Him. As long as I recognize every day that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior, my source of power, love, and everything, I do not feel these urges.

Of course, I get pangs of temptation, as I am not in the complete glory of the Lord (yet ), but I simply recognize our Lord's sovereignty over my life, His power over me, His love, His everything, and then I forget that I was tempted - it becomes distant and I often wonder why I even wanted it.

For those who believe that the answer is no masturbation, I am curious. How is it that you can be fine with this when, as a result of building hormone production, you are being assaulted continuously with lustful thoughts, and as a result in a medical condition known as "extreme horniness" It is not just a matter of controlling your thoughts; there is the physical aspect that makes one lustful that we cannot help.

The only way whatsoever that I can do this is because our Lord is giving me the gift of freedom from this sexual sin. I have done nothing to be worthy of it, I really haven't. But I began to pursue a relationship with Him (falling in love), and I am given a gift I could never have given myself. It's amazing, and I am in awe at the Lord's powerful work in my life!

touching yourself is a sin, because it gives glory to our bodies (even if we are thinking about the joys of being in marriage, we are glorifying the image of a body in our minds), and not giving glory to our Lord. Try giving praise and glory to Jesus Christ while masterbating, and I guarantee you that you will find yourself feeling awful. :-( We cannot serve two masters, so we can't enjoy touching yourself and love the Lord at the same time - we have to turn from Him while we enjoy this sexual pleasure. I have never known what it means to enjoy a sexual relationship in the Spirit of the Lord, as I am not yet married, but I *know* that these desires, guided by the spirit, are good and serve to glorify the good work of the Lord. I am overcome with the vision of being able to praise God in voice and heart in the act of sex, recognizing it is a gift of the source of all love.

However, I could not will myself to turn from my sexual sin. It is painfully clear to me, and I see that it is the same for you as well. We alone our hopeless, failures...but take joy that Jesus is our savior! He promises us freedom in His glory, and we accept! That means that all sin will be removed from us, and in its place will be a desire to glorify the love of our life! We will be given freedom to love another as He loves us. We must then rest in Him in our struggles, so that we may find hope in what seems hopeless.

What can you give Him then? Give Him that. Don't think about your sin, think about His glory - spend all your time meditating on the love, power, glory of Jesus Christ in your life, and in all the world. Seek Him out in any and every way you can, and wait on Him to give you the freedom from your desires that you seek. Of course, it will be painful as He puts to death your desires, but the rewards are that much greater!

I write this as another 'in the trenches' with you, but let's keep each other focused on the only One in our life that matters. My friend, I will pray for you, that you find peace in your trials, and that you find rest in His glory. Continue to seek out the source (Jesus Christ), and you will be rewarded.

For His Glory,
Chris

 

[vanshan]

I began this past-time when I was only 15. It for over 15 years was nearly a daily practice. (I'm at work so I'm purposefully using ambigious terminology here.) For me it seemed that the more I did this the more I hungered for it. It did not give me a release but rather built an appetite. It made me feel very guilty; although I tried to ignore those feelings of shame. This creates a bigger problem . . . as you seem aware we are given guilt as a gift to lead us to repentance. When we ignore guilt we build up a wall that actually blocks our hearts from God. Very bad.

I have not completely solved this problem, but let me encourage you by saying it gets easier with age. I did go three months w/o doing it, which I would have never been able to do before. After the 1st week of not doing it, it got easier. What helped during that time was a steady discipline of prayer, fasting in accordance with Eastern Orthodox Christian tradition, and confessing it to my spiritual father.

 

[Protestant Minister]

One of the thigs that non-Christians object to most about Christians is that so many focus on trival sins while ignoring and sometimes even supporting gross acts of immorality.Children starving,people having their bodies blown up in Iraq,babies having their brains sucked out by abortion doctors - these are the acts of immorality we should be focused on.

touching yourself is a physical activity God created in our bodies for purposes of eliminating old sperm.It functions the same way urination does.to eliminate waste material from the body.If people think it's sinful,they need to complain to God because He is the one who created our bodies.Of course it's not necessary to touch or urinate voluntarily.Then the body goes into automatic drive and thus "wet dreams" are created. in bed.If touching yourself is a sin,why aren't wet dreams?

Those who try to lay a false and emotionally damaging guilt trip on Christians for having lustful thoughts have no knowledge of how our subconscious minds which God created.,function.Our subconscious minds that govern our thinking when we sleep,are filled with deeply sexual thoughts.If you don't like it,blame God for what He did to you.Our sexual thoughts,insure that reproduction will continue.Not having sexual thoughts is a symptom of a severe mental illness.It's an absolute abomination that Christians are accused of engaging in sin,when in fact they are functioning the way God created them.The truth of the matter is that touching yourself if practiced by males on a regular basis will cut down on the entire range of sexual crfimes besetting society from abortion to rape because it takes away sexual desire that drives men to commit sex crimes.

So let's stop filling people with absurd and false guilt because their body is functioning to eliminate waste material the way God created it to function.(I know a young man who gave up his Christian faith because mentally deprived Christians filled him with so much guilt)The only sins we need to be concerned about is the viewing of pornography which is a common mistake and the acting out with others of our subconscious mind 's lustful thoughts.God created our subconscious minds to generate lustful thoughts and they can not be stopped but harming others with our sexual thoughts,is where sin sweeps in..

 

[Lucubratus]

A lot of times I'm not happy being a female when the monthly affliction comes around and other assorted girlie woes, but this thread makes me relieved because I don't think about it as often as I hear men do and I am glad to be a woman right about now....;-) It's not as difficult to abstain from it.
I hope I do not have a mental illness then, Protestant Minister... *laughs*

Cyberwood makes some points about turning your mind from it and to God and the lustful thoughts decreasing if nothng else -- but this can also apply to daily life not just masturbation, hmm? Anytime our thoughts are dwelling for so long on something else is of course, taking away from God. Wouldn't that include overwhelming guilt?

touching yourself is a physical activity God created in our bodies for purposes of eliminating old sperm.It functions the same way urination does.to eliminate waste material from the body.

I never thought of it that way before, but my Mom mentioned that one time - in regards to the female aspect that is sort of helped discharged *unhealthy* things. (I'm trying to be delicate, it's just another one of those female problems that medications are supposed to solve but sometimes don't. )

It is probably unavoidable sooner or later and I tend to look at it this way - if I am going to feel guilty about it, etc etc -- I would rather do it this way then be promiscuous because at least this way, I don't have to worry about STD's and the possibility of becoming pregnant, which I do not want.

 

[Alternate Carpark]

There is a biblical principle/ spiritual law that is the basis for all of our actions.
Though leads to meditation.
Meditation leads to desire.
Desire leads to decision.
Decision leads ot action.

This process from start to finish can vary from seconds to days.
For example let's use mild pornagraphy ( which is rampant in this day and age)as the catalyst.
You see a glimpse of a picture somewhere for a second.
You have two choices now.
1: 2 Cor. 10:5 ...... and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; --- an act of your will--your response(ability)
The thought is scutinized and if it is not of God then it is rejected and removed from one's mind. End of story. Carry on as if you never saw the picture.

2: Meditate on that initial thought--an act of your will again.
3: Meditating is constant thought--this produces a desire that is connected to the thought.
4: Desires of the flesh take control of you and the desire wants to be fulfilled.
5: Desire demands a decision.
6: The decision is based on which is stronger, a desire to please the lust of the flesh or a desire to please God.

By the time you are at the ecision stage it woul be near impossible to say no to the fleshly desire.
this is why God states ..bring every THOUGHT not every disire.
God wants to deal with it right where the trouble starts, not at the end.
The examples in Proverbs concerning being tempted by the flirtatious woman shows how hard it is to resist at that stage.

But what if you don't seem to go through this process of thought to action.
What if it seems that you go from thought to action quite easily.
This is because a pattern has been built into you, a stronghold.
But it still started with that 5 stage principle.

2 Cor. 10:5
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

2 Cor. 10:4
For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;

The 5 step principle is neutral, it is the path that is taken no matter if the end action is godly or not.

Sexual desire and lust are two different things.
God has designed us with sexual desires , and he even states that these desires are very strong.
Lust is fleshly ungodly desire. It is desire corrupted by the flesh.

I see that touching yourself is a way to relieve the physical discomfort and the act is not done for lustful reasons.
But how much of this physical discomfort is fueled by simple sexual thoughts.
thoughts that we are responsible for bringing captive to the obedience of Christ ?

I speak from experience because I had a high sex drive all my life.
But being single and divorced and joyfully and painlessly celibate for the last 9 years now, my sexual drive is near non existant, because I have applied the principle of capturing my thoughts when they are but simple one of thoughts and dealing with them there and then.

I do not allow them to grow into strong desires that overwhelm me.
LOL, of course this was not the case when my wife left me.
You may find that it is not the issue of whether touching yourself is okay or not but why is there such a strong desire to do it.

 

[fox03]

Wow Lucubratus! You mean to say that your mom talked to you about masturbation? Glad I haven't had that conversation!

I feel that masturbation isn't wrong, I can't see how it could be, all of the "stuff" (porno, lustful thoughts of others, well...I'm sure that we all know) certainly is sinning. Yet despite knowing this it certainly hasn't stopped me, and all my other Christian friends, as evidenced from the jokes that only a person who masturbates would get, from "spanking the monkey" if you will. That's because masturbation is an addiction.

We really aren't supposed to have addictions; they are above God. As stated before you cannot serve both God and ______.

I have read articles and even a couple books, and still no closer, not even to a solution to the problem, but even simply understanding it.

 

[Caelum]

My point of view plain and simple:

I do not consider masturbation an immoral sexual act(which is blatantly a sin according to the bible). Because I do not conduct it in an immoral fashion.

I also feel(and cannot rely on scripture to back this up) that God does not want us to fret or change our lives over something so trivial. Especially when that time spent feeling guilty can be used to praise him and for further edification. As long as masturbation doesn't hurt you, or anyone else, physically or mentally, why fret?

Just as you shouldn't let the guilt control you, do not let thoughts of masturbation/etc control you. God is your master, nothing/nobody else.

The end. (Fairly plain and simple, right?)