infinite monkey theorem

[joshua 1 9]

So what makes you think that other universe are incapable of sustaining themselves?

The title of the discussion is the infinite monkey theorem. That is the whole point of the random theory is that you are going to have universes that are incapable of sustaining themselves. That is what you expect when you deal with something that is random and not designed. I would question if you would ever have anything at all other then just a lot of random numbers.

 

[joshua 1 9]

but you can't make a definitive claim to know this. There is a considerable difference between believing that something is so and knowing that it is so. Which is why we are stuck using probability-based models and guesswork.

Exactly that is what we have is probability and that is good enough. There is not a speck of evidence to show otherwise. I do not have any vested interest, it does not matter to me. In fact I would rather that the whole universe be teaming with life. We do not have any evidence for that though.

 

[AnotherAtheist]

In Las Vegas it is extremely important that the roulette wheel they use is very well made. If there is a glitch anywhere in the wheel so that it lands on one number more often then people can take advantage of that weakness to increase their chance of winning. The other planets have an effect on the Earth from time to time when they come close enough so their gravitational field can effect us. This creates a wobble and I do not know how well science is able to predict that. So the universe can be difficult to predict because of factors we may not always understand.

The universe can be difficult to predict. But, not everything is. E.g. the probabilities of throwing dice can be calculated very well. Even if the dice (or say roulette wheel) were biased, we can measure the bias. A well made roulette wheel or set of dice should be sufficiently close to the expected probabilities such that odds can be calculated very accurately. Certainly well enough

Other planets have very, very, little effect on the earth. http://www.askamathematician.com/20...e-on-us-is-astrology-reasonable-or-plausable/

In this case very rough numbers are more then adequate because the real factor is how many different things there are that makes Life on Earth so unique. We are second generation, so we are made up of elements that were produced in a star that exploded. Which really takes us to what most everyone considers to be the biggest factor of all is the timing. Even IF you can find identical conditions on another planet in the Universe just the timing alone would have to be exact. That is the solar system would have to be almost identical to our AND the age would have to be almost Identical to the age of our Solar System. There are many many other factors to take into consideration and the people who say that life on earth can be duplicated elsewhere are simply not taking into account all of the many vast variables that they need to consider. Its possible but just not very likely. Of couse it is a LOT more possible if there is a "intelligent design" it is a LOT less likely if your going by random process as your design.

What do you mean by 'duplicated'? Do you mean not just life of a similar level of sophistication to us but identical? I don't think that we'd see identical life on another planet.

People like Stephen Hawking pretty much shoot themselves in the foot. They want to believe in Aliens but the only Aliens they have are the Demons that plague them. Their theory of random chance simply would not produce the Aliens on other planets that they claim to believe in. They need to use the multi universe theory to be looking in other dimensions if they want to find their "Alien" life. Dimensions that they claim exists even though they are outside of our ability to be able to detect using the vast amount of scientific equipment that technology makes available.

Demons? Where did Demons come from? Their theory of random chance? Where did all this come from?

 

[ecco]

Do we have any evidence that AU /= EI? As far as I am aware our current knowledge would treat them as one and the same since time exits because of space.

our current SCIENTIFIC knowledge

However, I was in a discussion with Joshua who believes our universe to be less than 15 billion years old (a lot less) and his god to be eternal.

For ease of discussion let's represent:
EternityInfinity as EI
Maximum age of our Universe as AU

Since AU is much less than EI, [Since the age of our universe is much less than eternity] I was asking what his god had done for most of eternity before he created our universe.

• Make other good universes
• Make other universes that didn't turn out so well
• Nothing

Hope that clarifies it.

 

[Belk]

our current SCIENTIFIC knowledge

However, I was in a discussion with Joshua who believes our universe to be less than 15 billion years old (a lot less) and his god to be eternal.

For ease of discussion let's represent:
EternityInfinity as EI
Maximum age of our Universe as AU

Since AU is much less than EI, [Since the age of our universe is much less than eternity] I was asking what his god had done for most of eternity before he created our universe.

• Make other good universes
• Make other universes that didn't turn out so well
• Nothing

Hope that clarifies it.

Ah! That does explain it. Thank you.

 

[joshua 1 9]

The universe can be difficult to predict.

NASA has to predict the universe. Otherwise more people would die if they did not get it right.

Other planets have very, very, little effect on the earth.

The point he made was that the larger outer planets protect the earth from comets and other space junk.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/26/weekinreview/26overbye.html?_r=0

Demons? Where did Demons come from? Their theory of random chance? Where did all this come from?

Demons and Angels are in another dimension and they are not detectable by any instrument that science has to work with right now.

 

[Belk]

NASA has to predict the universe. Otherwise more people would die if they did not get it right.

The point he made was that the larger outer planets protect the earth from comets and other space junk.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/26/weekinreview/26overbye.html?_r=0

Demons and Angels are in another dimension and they are not detectable by any instrument that science has to work with right now.

Then how do you know they are in another dimension?

 

[joshua 1 9]

our current SCIENTIFIC knowledge

However, I was in a discussion with Joshua who believes our universe to be less than 15 billion years old (a lot less) and his god to be eternal.

For ease of discussion let's represent:
EternityInfinity as EI
Maximum age of our Universe as AU

Since AU is much less than EI, [Since the age of our universe is much less than eternity] I was asking what his god had done for most of eternity before he created our universe.

• Make other good universes
• Make other universes that didn't turn out so well
• Nothing

Hope that clarifies it.

I am a dispensationalist, but I have no problem with the earth being however many billions of years old you want. That all took place long before Adam & Eve entered in 6,000 years ago. It is Schroeder that has a unique explanation for OEC. He is a Hebrew Creationists, and lives in Jerusalem even he got his Phd at MIT. So I am interested in all the various creationist beliefs and support them to some degree.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Then how do you know they are in another dimension?

The angels watch over us and there has been times when they have saved my life. But I can not really explain what or where they are because I am not aware of every having seen them. If we do see them then my understanding is they manifest themselves as looking like people because we are oriented to talk to people that look like us. Mary the mother of Jesus talked to the Angel Gabriel when he announce that Jesus was to be born. He is considered to be a messenger angel. When Zacharias doubted the message from Gabriel he was told: "And behold, you shall be silent and unable to speak until the day when these things take place, because you did not believe my words, which will be fulfilled in their proper time." luke 1 19

 

[Black Dog]

The title of the discussion is the infinite monkey theorem. That is the whole point of the random theory is that you are going to have universes that are incapable of sustaining themselves. That is what you expect when you deal with something that is random and not designed. I would question if you would ever have anything at all other then just a lot of random numbers.

First, how do you know that such a thing as a universe that can't sustain itself can exist at all?

Second, if such a thing can and does exist, how do you know what happens to it?

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Really? As far as I know there are lots of different contributors. So I suppose all sorts of things are represented on there. Why would they "reject creationism"? Perhaps they lack understanding or discernment.

Or perhaps the HAVE understanding and discernment, which is why they reject it.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Of my entire post, you only responded, cryptically, to the first line. Please respond to:
I'll leave it to you to decide if god just did nothing or if god made other universes, failed, successful or otherwise.

The entire post (for the third time)...

Common christian belief is that "God is Eternal"
Common christian belief is that "God created the universe between 6000 years ago and 13+ billion years ago"

For the sake of discussion let's use the max...13+ Billion.
For the sake of discussion let's say that Eternity = Infinity.

For ease of discussion let's represent:
EternityInfinity as EI
Maximum age of our Universe as AU

Therefore, God created the (known) universe no more than AU years ago.

Apparently God did other things or no things for EI - AU (EI minus AU) years.

That's a verrrrrrrry long time. Almost as long as Eternity.

I'll leave it to you to decide if god just did nothing or if god made other universes, failed, successful or otherwise.​

In my own opinion God has always created and always will create; His creations are infinite in number and kind and we will always only know a finite portion of His creation. What was God doing before He created our universe? Creating other stuff.

 

[AnotherAtheist]

NASA has to predict the universe. Otherwise more people would die if they did not get it right.

NASA cannot predict the universe. E.g. we know of only a fraction of the asteroids out there and are finding new ones all the time. While there is considerable need to find asteroids in case one is on a collision course with earth, that doesn't itself mean that NASA can 'predict the universe', they do the best they can.

If NASA's work is so important, e.g. it may be critical for the survival of the human race, why does your government keep on cutting its budget. http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2014/03/05/nasa_budget_2015_more_cuts_more_politics.html

The point he made was that the larger outer planets protect the earth from comets and other space junk.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/26/weekinreview/26overbye.html?_r=0

I was responding to claims that the gravity of other planets affects earth, causing a 'wobble'. Any such effects are very small. Protecting the earth from comets and meteors is a very different thing, and not in any way contentious.

Demons and Angels are in another dimension and they are not detectable by any instrument that science has to work with right now.

And your objective evidence for demons and angels is ...?

 

[quatona]

The point he made was that the larger outer planets protect the earth from comets and other space junk.

...which, I suspect, Satan is throwing at us.

 

[asherahSamaria]

...which, I suspect, Satan is throwing at us.

LOL

 

[DogmaHunter]

The title of the discussion is the infinite monkey theorem. That is the whole point of the random theory is that you are going to have universes that are incapable of sustaining themselves.

That's simply not true.
The infinite monkey idea applies to anything that is randomized. It's not about any specific instance of randomization.

That is what you expect when you deal with something that is random and not designed. I would question if you would ever have anything at all other then just a lot of random numbers.

An infinite number of randomized strings of numbers wille inevitably end up in instances of "odd" patterns.

Take a deck of cards. Heck, take 20 such decks. Shuffle them and draw 5 cards. Repeat.

You are bound to end up with a Royal Flush sooner or later.

 

[DogmaHunter]

The angels watch over us and there has been times when they have saved my life. But I can not really explain what or where they are because I am not aware of every having seen them. If we do see them then my understanding is they manifest themselves as looking like people because we are oriented to talk to people that look like us

In other words, you have no idea and are just repeating what your pastor told you....

Mary the mother of Jesus talked to the Angel Gabriel when he announce that Jesus was to be born. He is considered to be a messenger angel. When Zacharias doubted the message from Gabriel he was told: "And behold, you shall be silent and unable to speak until the day when these things take place, because you did not believe my words, which will be fulfilled in their proper time." luke 1 19

And now, you are just repeating what your bible says.

 

[Loudmouth]

The title of the discussion is the infinite monkey theorem. That is the whole point of the random theory is that you are going to have universes that are incapable of sustaining themselves. That is what you expect when you deal with something that is random and not designed. I would question if you would ever have anything at all other then just a lot of random numbers.

Geology and weather are random. Therefore, you should expect some streams to flow uphill since it is a random process.

Doesn't make sense, does it?

We don't even know if universes can be different. We don't know how many characteristics that seem independent of one another are actually independent.

 

[ecco]

ecco said: ↑
However, I was in a discussion with Joshua who believes our universe to be less than 15 billion years old (a lot less) and his god to be eternal.

For ease of discussion let's represent:
EternityInfinity as EI
Maximum age of our Universe as AU

Since AU is much less than EI, [Since the age of our universe is much less than eternity] I was asking what his god had done for most of eternity before he created our universe.

• Make other good universes
• Make other universes that didn't turn out so well
• Nothing

I am a dispensationalist, but I have no problem with the earth being however many billions of years old you want. That all took place long before Adam & Eve entered in 6,000 years ago. It is Schroeder that has a unique explanation for OEC. He is a Hebrew Creationists, and lives in Jerusalem even he got his Phd at MIT. So I am interested in all the various creationist beliefs and support them to some degree.

I didn't ask what branch of christianity you followed.
I didn't ask about your concept of the age of the earth of the universe.
I didn't ask about Schroeder's credentials.
I didn't ask about Schroeder's beliefs.

I asked what god had done for most of eternity before he created our universe. I even gave three oprions.

• Make other good universes
• Make other universes that didn't turn out so well
• Nothing

Why do you continue to dance around and not answer. What is your belief or even just your opinion?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Demons and Angels are in another dimension and they are not detectable by any instrument that science has to work with right now.

I thought it was just a metaphor... Leaving aside what 'another dimension' means here (the Twilight Zone?), what effects do these Demons and Angels have that are undetectable yet significant enough to mention? science can measure all kinds of brain activity and influences - so how do these Demons undetectably 'plague' those unfortunate scientists?