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infinite monkey theorem

durangodawood

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....Yet no record of failed attempts at life......
There's lots of life that didnt survive to reproduce, which could be called "failure". Of course, it doesnt stack up in piles for ever and ever. it returns to 'dust', so to speak.
 
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joshua 1 9

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"The universe is not infinite - there is a beginning and an end" - and your source for this is?
Science confirms what the Bible teaches that there is a beginning and a end to the universe. That is what the Big Bang Theory is all about, that the universe does have a beginning. Even if the universe is expanding and shrinking, there is a beginning and a end to the cycle and there is a finite amount of energy in the universe. To keep the universe going you would need to bring energy in from outside of the universe.
 
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joshua 1 9

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There's lots of life that didnt survive to reproduce, which could be called "failure". Of course, it doesnt stack up in piles for ever and ever. it returns to 'dust', so to speak.
I really use to wonder what happened to the bits and bytes when we deleted them off of the computer. So what keeps the successful attempts from turning into dust? What gives them life?
 
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durangodawood

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I really use to wonder what happened to the bits and bytes when we deleted them off of the computer. So what keeps the successful attempts from turning into dust? What gives them life?
Their systems work.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Their systems work.
I have a friend, that grows Delia Plants. They started off with two plants and a lot of plants grow but are a failure because they are deformed. But they are still a plant and would leave as much of a record as the successful plants do. They just do not reproduce as well. So is this why 95 % of the species are extinct? They were some sort of a failure?

images
 
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AirPo

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If your an atheist you do not believe in God so you can not very well question something you do not believe exists.

Maybe you can explain just who cleaned up the mess the ransom creation process would have made through all the many many failed attempts at the creation of a universe and the life in the universe. Someone or something has to deal with all the clutter and decide what to keep, what to throw away and what to sell or donate. Maybe there is a furnace somewhere to clean up all the clutter and the failed attempts.
A. Yes he can

and

B. He wasn't questioning God.
 
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The infinite monkey theorem states that a monkey hitting keys at random on a typewriter keyboard for an infinite amount of time will almost surely type a given text, such as the complete works of William Shakespeare. The chance of this happening is one in 10:500. So there would be 500 zeros. If this were the case then there would be many many many failed attempts. What happened to all the failed attempts at making a universe? Are they in the failed attempt bucket in the sky somewhere? The universe is filled with natural laws that makes it all work and nothing seems to be a failed attempt, at least on that level. Nothing failed until self awareness came along. Then people began to question if there is a God then how could he make such a mess. Even though they do not believe in God they feel this God that they do not believe in made a mess out of the universe that He created. But the same people feel that random process is doing a fine job of creation and does not make a mess at all or if it does it cleans up after itself. Still with so many failed attempts then the mess to clean up must be huge.
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Hello Joshua.

As an amateur astronomer I've done some reading about cosmology and I might be able to help you on the 'failed attempt' problem you mention.

Back in 1922 the Russian scientist Alexander Friedmann found that solutions to Einstein's field equations (of General Relativity) fell into three groups (or types) of universe. These are known as Spherical/Closed, Hyperbolic/Open and Flat universes. Please refer to the diagram on this Wiki page which neatly shows all three types. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape_of_the_universe

When it comes to Inflationary theory, Closed and Open universes are generally considered to be "failed attempts", because they never permit stars, planets and galaxies to form. Closed universes contain too much mass/energy and Open universes contain too little. Only Flat universes (like ours) have just the right balance of mass/energy to inflate at just the right rate, allowing life-friendly conditions to persist for billions of years.

But we cannot see these failed universes because they are completely disconnected from our own universe.

There's nowhere you can look in our sky that isn't part of our own, geometrically Flat universe.
Ok, this is difficult to take in, but maybe an analogy would help? Try this. No matter how diligently you scour the surface of this planet, you'll never find the hardware left on the Moon by the Apollo astronauts. It's impossible.

Does that help?

Thanks,

E.I.
 
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durangodawood

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I have a friend, that grows Delia Plants. They started off with two plants and a lot of plants grow but are a failure because they are deformed. But they are still a plant and would leave as much of a record as the successful plants do. They just do not reproduce as well. So is this why 95 % of the species are extinct? They were some sort of a failure?
I dont think poor-reproducing variations would even become a species, unless they found some niche of low competition.

But, as I understand, most extinctions happened because of environmental change, whether catastrophic or gradual.
 
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The universe is not infinite, there is a beginning and an end. Also the current theory is the universe expands only so far before it runs out of energy and then it has to shrink. Even there is NOT an infinite number of universes or possibilities. The number is so large that there are 500 zeros, so it's many trillion trillion trillion trillion trillions big, but there is a finite number of possibilities. Of course I am not smart enough to do the math on that. I leave that up to the Phd's to figure out. Although my son is trying to learn math so he can get a good job when he graduates.

Umm...not really, Joshua.

Observations made by two independent groups in 1998 tell us that rather than running out of energy, the expansion of our universe is actually speeding up.

Here is a Wiki summary of it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerating_universe

That figure of 10 to the power of 500 which you quote sounds like the number of false vacua of String Theory.
Is that your source of information? If it is, please be advised that the String Theory model is a totally different one to the Inflationary model and mixing them together is just not correct.

Btw, could you quote, cite or link to your source of information please?

Thanks,

E.I.
 
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Science confirms what the Bible teaches that there is a beginning and a end to the universe. That is what the Big Bang Theory is all about, that the universe does have a beginning. Even if the universe is expanding and shrinking, there is a beginning and a end to the cycle and there is a finite amount of energy in the universe. To keep the universe going you would need to bring energy in from outside of the universe.

Again, not really Joshua.

The net energy value of our universe is exactly... zero.

As such, it can be considered as the ultimate free lunch.

http://www.physicsoftheuniverse.com/scientists_guth.html
 
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Oafman

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What happened to all the failed attempts at making a universe? Are they in the failed attempt bucket in the sky somewhere?
What would a failed attempt look like? How might we observe it? How might we test and measure it?

Answer those questions, and then we can get started trying to prove that there weren't any.

But these are not questions we yet have an answer to, so to imply that there were no failed attempts is at best premature, and at worst, well, many would say that you're just making it up as you go along.

The universe is not infinite, there is a beginning and an end.
The observable universe had a beginning, and will have an end (of sorts). You don't know what does or does not exist beyond what we can observe. You don't know what, if anything, existed 'before' the Big Bang, as much as that is even conceptually possible. And you don't know what will come afterwards.

You do not know whether or not our observable universe is nature's one and only attempt at a universe, and you're in no position to assert otherwise. In fact, the evidence from quantum mechanics and from astronomy is making it increasingly hard to believe in the idea that the dimensions we can see are the only ones which exist.
 
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pshun2404

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But we cannot see these failed universes because they are completely disconnected from our own universe.

E.I.

Most likely because they were the never existent imaginary abstract constructs of one genuis's mind....

one commentor in your Wiki article puts it nicely

"it seems that within experimental error, the universe seems to be flat."

You said, "
Please refer to the last paragraph, where our best measurements of the universe's geometry suggest that it is infinitely large.

Infinite here is a relative term suggesting more so our inability and limits of perception and instrumentation do not allow us to measure it accurately yet...from our miniscule perspective and given our natural limitations we we theorize but do not know yet for sure...
 
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joshua 1 9

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Hello Joshua.

As an amateur astronomer I've done some reading about cosmology and I might be able to help you on the 'failed attempt' problem you mention.

Back in 1922 the Russian scientist Alexander Friedmann found that solutions to Einstein's field equations (of General Relativity) fell into three groups (or types) of universe. These are known as Spherical/Closed, Hyperbolic/Open and Flat universes. Please refer to the diagram on this Wiki page which neatly shows all three types. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape_of_the_universe

When it comes to Inflationary theory, Closed and Open universes are generally considered to be "failed attempts", because they never permit stars, planets and galaxies to form. Closed universes contain too much mass/energy and Open universes contain too little. Only Flat universes (like ours) have just the right balance of mass/energy to inflate at just the right rate, allowing life-friendly conditions to persist for billions of years.

But we cannot see these failed universes because they are completely disconnected from our own universe.

There's nowhere you can look in our sky that isn't part of our own, geometrically Flat universe.
Ok, this is difficult to take in, but maybe an analogy would help? Try this. No matter how diligently you scour the surface of this planet, you'll never find the hardware left on the Moon by the Apollo astronauts. It's impossible.

Does that help?

Thanks,

E.I.
Accoirding to Schroeder the frequency of isolated spiral galaxies is: one galaxy in ten or .1%. Yet there are many many thing unique about our Earth and it's position in our solar system along with the moon. Even though the Universe is very much the same elements and laws there is at best could only be 10,000 planets like our earth. So the situation we have here on Earth is very rare. The distance from the sun, the size of the sun, the size of the earth, the size of the moon. The position of the other planets all play a part in the way life on earth evolved. Even we are unique when you consider the minerals we have and the water we have here on earth. We are perhaps a crown jewel for God and it's no wonder the battle ended up here. Between God and the forces that oppose Him.
 
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ecco

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... If this were the case then there would be many many many failed attempts. What happened to all the failed attempts at making a universe?

Common christian belief is that "God is Eternal"
Common christian belief is that "God created the universe between 6000 years ago and 13+ billion years ago"

For the sake of discussion let's use the max...13+ Billion.
For the sake of discussion let's say that Eternity = Infinity.

For ease of discussion let's represent:
EternityInfinity as EI
Maximum age of our Universe as AU

Therefore, God created the (known) universe no more than AU years ago.

Apparently God did other things or no things for EI - AU (EI minus AU) years.

That's a verrrrrrrry long time. Almost as long as Eternity.

I'll leave it to you to decide if god just did nothing or if god made other universes, failed, successful or otherwise.
 
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AirPo

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Accoirding to Schroeder the frequency of isolated spiral galaxies is: one galaxy in ten or .1%. Yet there are many many thing unique about our Earth and it's position in our solar system along with the moon. Even though the Universe is very much the same elements and laws there is at best could only be 10,000 planets like our earth. So the situation we have here on Earth is very rare. The distance from the sun, the size of the sun, the size of the earth, the size of the moon. The position of the other planets all play a part in the way life on earth evolved. Even we are unique when you consider the minerals we have and the water we have here on earth. We are perhaps a crown jewel for God and it's no wonder the battle ended up here. Between God and the forces that oppose Him.
How do you go from the frequency of isolated spiral galaxies the maximum number of earth like plaents?
 
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Accoirding to Schroeder the frequency of isolated spiral galaxies is: one galaxy in ten or .1%. Yet there are many many thing unique about our Earth and it's position in our solar system along with the moon. Even though the Universe is very much the same elements and laws there is at best could only be 10,000 planets like our earth. So the situation we have here on Earth is very rare. The distance from the sun, the size of the sun, the size of the earth, the size of the moon. The position of the other planets all play a part in the way life on earth evolved. Even we are unique when you consider the minerals we have and the water we have here on earth. We are perhaps a crown jewel for God and it's no wonder the battle ended up here. Between God and the forces that oppose Him.
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Ummm.. it would be really helpful if you were to post a link to or a citation about wherever you're getting your information from, Joshua.

This Schroeder could be the musical friend of Peppermint Patty.

So can you help me out please?

Thanks,

E.I.
 
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Most likely because they were the never existent imaginary abstract constructs of one genuis's mind....

one commentor in your Wiki article puts it nicely

"it seems that within experimental error, the universe seems to be flat."

You said, "
Please refer to the last paragraph, where our best measurements of the universe's geometry suggest that it is infinitely large.

Infinite here is a relative term suggesting more so our inability and limits of perception and instrumentation do not allow us to measure it accurately yet...from our miniscule perspective and given our natural limitations we we theorize but do not know yet for sure...

Pshun,

Thanks for the input.

So the use of extrapolation, deduction and inference in science are things you have a problem with?

Like this, perhaps? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagittarius_A*

This object cannot be seen or directly investigated, yet it's nature can be inferred by it's effects on it's surroundings.

You object?

E.I.
 
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joshua 1 9

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http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/uni_shape.html

I just remembered this link, Joshua.

Please refer to the last paragraph, where our best measurements of the universe's geometry suggest that it is infinitely large.
I had a dream when I was around 12 where God showed me the universe was expanding and eventually at some point at time the universe will begin to come back together, what they call the Big Crunch. Even if the universe were to go through a growing and shrinking cycle at some point the crunch would bring time to an end. Even if when the universe began to expand again then time would begin again. So you still have alpha and omega, the end and the beginning. You can not have an end without a beginning and a beginning without an end.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Ummm.. it would be really helpful if you were to post a link to or a citation about wherever you're getting your information from, Joshua.

This Schroeder could be the musical friend of Peppermint Patty.

So can you help me out please?

Thanks,

E.I.
Gerald Schroeder. But I am reading his most recent book so you may not find to much about it on the internet.

http://geraldschroeder.com/

 
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