infinite monkey theorem

[joshua 1 9]

The infinite monkey theorem states that a monkey hitting keys at random on a typewriter keyboard for an infinite amount of time will almost surely type a given text, such as the complete works of William Shakespeare. The chance of this happening is one in 10:500. So there would be 500 zeros. If this were the case then there would be many many many failed attempts. What happened to all the failed attempts at making a universe? Are they in the failed attempt bucket in the sky somewhere? The universe is filled with natural laws that makes it all work and nothing seems to be a failed attempt, at least on that level. Nothing failed until self awareness came along. Then people began to question if there is a God then how could he make such a mess. Even though they do not believe in God they feel this God that they do not believe in made a mess out of the universe that He created. But the same people feel that random process is doing a fine job of creation and does not make a mess at all or if it does it cleans up after itself. Still with so many failed attempts then the mess to clean up must be huge.

 

[AnotherAtheist]

Why would there be failed attempts to build a universe? Before you can ask where the failed universes would be, you have to give at least some reason to assume they must exist.

Otherwise, I could use the same reasoning to say that there must have been a fanctastically large number of failed attempts to build a God. What happened to all the failed Gods?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

It's a novel idea, but I doubt anyone's ever suggested that the creation of the universe was the result of God giving himself an infinite time to take random stabs at it... the theorem comparison alone would deter most deists!

 

[durangodawood]

Why are all the other "Hamlets" failed?

Maybe some are great successes to some other way of thinking.

 

[jacks]

That monkey thing always gets me. I can just imagine a version that is all complete except the last monkey hits a "g" instead of a "q". "To be or not to be: that is the guestion." Rats we have to start all over! So they begin again...kei9nklerioadeok dfkdpki34895mv...

 

[029b10]

The infinite monkey theorem states that a monkey hitting keys at random on a typewriter keyboard for an infinite amount of time will almost surely type a given text,

Since that monkey has a finite life span, the chances of it doing anything for an infinite amount of time reproves any validity in the theorem to begin with.

 

[durangodawood]

Actually, odds are our universe would be packed to the edges with failed manuscripts long before a successful one emerged, even if he was using a small typeface like 8pt.

Then the poor monkey would run out of air and die.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Actually, odds are our universe would be packed to the edges with failed manuscripts long before a successful one emerged, even if he was using a small typeface like 8pt.

Then the poor monkey would run out of air and die.

That is the whole point the universe would or should be filled with failed attempts so that there would be no room for the one successful attempt that they say finally comes along. 95 percent of all life is now extinct and there is a vast record of that. Yet no record of failed attempts at life. Even if you JUST look at protein and what would be involved to create just one of the many proteins using the random theory.

Even the multi verse theory says there would be a huge number of failed universes that did not manage to get all the natural laws right. Because the random theory would require that to be trial and error also.

 

[Armoured]

That monkey thing always gets me. I can just imagine a version that is all complete except the last monkey hits a "g" instead of a "q". "To be or not to be: that is the guestion." Rats we have to start all over! So they begin again...kei9nklerioadeok dfkdpki34895mv...

 

[joshua 1 9]

What happened to all the failed Gods?

If your an atheist you do not believe in God so you can not very well question something you do not believe exists.

Maybe you can explain just who cleaned up the mess the ransom creation process would have made through all the many many failed attempts at the creation of a universe and the life in the universe. Someone or something has to deal with all the clutter and decide what to keep, what to throw away and what to sell or donate. Maybe there is a furnace somewhere to clean up all the clutter and the failed attempts.

 

[asherahSamaria]

Infinity is really quite big.

If in an infinite universe (I believe a current hypothesis is that there is only one universe that is infinitely large with "pockets" of universes popping into existence throughout it, only some maintaining integrity to exist for any period of time and so large that the properties of one pocket don't interact with the properties in another - it's that big...) then a lot of things are possible.

Anyway - in any model that includes the word infinity, all possibilities could arise. There could be another universe exactly like ours except there is one atom placed differently and that's it. In another that atom might be somewhere else. And so on for all possible atoms and all possible locations. How many possibilities does that add up to - presumably also infinity.

Infinity is really quite big.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Infinity is really quite big.

If in an infinite universe

The universe is not infinite, there is a beginning and an end. Also the current theory is the universe expands only so far before it runs out of energy and then it has to shrink. Even there is NOT an infinite number of universes or possibilities. The number is so large that there are 500 zeros, so it's many trillion trillion trillion trillion trillions big, but there is a finite number of possibilities. Of course I am not smart enough to do the math on that. I leave that up to the Phd's to figure out. Although my son is trying to learn math so he can get a good job when he graduates.

 

[pshun2404]

Why would there be failed attempts to build a universe? Before you can ask where the failed universes would be, you have to give at least some reason to assume they must exist.

Otherwise, I could use the same reasoning to say that there must have been a fanctastically large number of failed attempts to build a God. What happened to all the failed Gods?

The God, by definition, is eternal being thus has no beginning or end, being outside of what you think of as time (which is a function of space thus less than the Universe), and therefore was not made, or built, or subject to such terms.

 

[pshun2404]

Since that monkey has a finite life span, the chances of it doing anything for an infinite amount of time reproves any validity in the theorem to begin with.

Even more importantly the concept is illogical in that we have a set amount of time (allegedly 13.5 billion years). So even the IF becomes this hugely abstract concept not plausible under the present circumstance.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Even more importantly the concept is illogical in that we have a set amount of time (allegedly 13.5 billion years). So even the IF becomes this hugely abstract concept not plausible under the present circumstance.

Perhaps the power needed to generate that many possibilities would be greater then the universe itself.

Suppose the typewriter has 50 keys, and the word to be typed is banana. If the keys are pressed randomly and independently, it means that each key has an equal chance of being pressed. Then, the chance that the first letter typed is 'b' is 1/50, and the chance that the second letter typed is a is also 1/50, and so on. Therefore, the chance of the first six letters spelling banana is

(1/50) × (1/50) × (1/50) × (1/50) × (1/50) × (1/50) = (1/50)6 = 1/15 625 000 000 ,
less than one in 15 billion, but not zero, hence a possible outcome.

If you want to type in ONE letter that would require a space a letter and a space so that would be (1/50) × (1/50) × (1/50) = 1/125,000. Assuming that the space key is given equal preference to a letter key.

 

[pshun2404]

Even more importantly the concept is illogical in that we have a set amount of time (allegedly 13.5 billion years). So even the IF becomes this hugely abstract concept not plausible under the present circumstance.

Secondly the real theorem does not pose an infinite monkey but rather an infinite number of actual monkeys and no matter how many there are that would require that at some point in our only 13.5 billion years one of the monkeys would have had to have done this...the average lifespan of a monkey being around 25 to 50 years which is absurd...

So in the end, the idea that IF an infinite number of monkeys at keyboards were given enough time they would produce even on coherent book is illogical and absurd! And I pose the suggestion that whoever declared the original propsition is themselves illogical and absurd.

There are 169,541 characters in Hamlet….now let’s be satisfied with just the letters/numbers in sequence (skip the space bar and punctuation)…and let’s assume 1000's of monkeys (if millions just add 3 zeros) with no limitation as to time….

The standard typewriter has 47 such keys, therefore just to come up with the word “hamlet” (just one word) the odds for each letter are 1 in 47 so just for the correct 6 letter arrangement we calculate 47 x 47 x 47 x 47 x 47 x 47….just for one word…

There is thus a 1 in 10,779,215,329 chance that any monkey (no matter how many) could produce just this one word.

Now calculating the 1 in 47 for each of the 169,571 characters in the play (just the one play) is 1 in 47 to the 169, 571st power (we talking a number many,many times larger than a googolplex which is 1 in 10 with hundred zeros following)

Now know this…

The information contained and produced by the play Hamlet is expotentially miniscule, and far less complex in comparison to one human body’s DNA….then multiply these odds out by the millions of people and millions of other life forms and multiply their inter-dependencies….and don't forget to add in ALL the life forms that ever existed or will exist in any number of possible futures....do you know what this means mathematically?????

It means NO...even an infinite number of monkeys with typewriters given ALL 13.5 billion years could NOT even produce Hamlet...let alone a single strand of functional human DNA...

Assuming so is an illogical absurdity!

Paul

 

[pshun2404]

Perhaps the power needed to generate that many possibilities would be greater then the universe itself.

Indeed, that is the only rational possibility that addresses the issue...

 

[joshua 1 9]

So in the end, the idea that IF an infinite number of monkeys at keyboards were given enough time they would produce even on coherent book is illogical and absurd! And I pose the suggestion that whoever declared the original propsition is themselves illogical and absurd.

The random theory started with Aristotle (384 bc). Stephen Hawking has a version of the monkey theory in his book. Gerald L. Schroeder Ph.D. works out the actual math to say this is a finite number because there are only 50 keys on the keyboard.

A variation on this idea is known as the "infinite monkey theorem," first stated by Emile Borel in 1913 as a thought experiment. An infinite number of monkeys, typing on an infinite number of typewriters, typing into infinity, could produce the complete works of William Shakespeare—better understood as, [infinity + probability + time = anything]. Simply put, given enough time, anything is possible.

 

[asherahSamaria]

The universe is not infinite, there is a beginning and an end. Also the current theory is the universe expands only so far before it runs out of energy and then it has to shrink. Even there is NOT an infinite number of universes or possibilities. The number is so large that there are 500 zeros, so it's many trillion trillion trillion trillion trillions big, but there is a finite number of possibilities. Of course I am not smart enough to do the math on that. I leave that up to the Phd's to figure out. Although my son is trying to learn math so he can get a good job when he graduates.

"The universe is not infinite - there is a beginning and an end" - and your source for this is?

 

[joshua 1 9]

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