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God's existence and kingdom is always and forever. The Word indicates that Hell is forever and ever.
You don't get it though Alive Again.
'Eternal' means temporary only when talking about punishments.
When talking about rewards 'eternal' means permanent.
Eternal life is forever but eternal punishment is temporary. Nothing is inconsistent which is expedient.
Well for the moment it has seemingly been determined that "for ever" in terms of punishment is the same "for ever" when looking at God's attributes. We know those are not temporary.
You do know that what you are asking is the equivalent of "forsaking the faith" for most of Christianity. Therefore it is truly hard for that mindset to receive anything new or true from God...simply because it is different than the things they hold so tight. But I can relate, because I too spent my early years trying desperately to absorb and coalesce orthodoxy, which only led me to realize its very inconsistencies prevent that from ever happening. But that lack of fear was the very thing that led me to those many "orthodox/Christian" churches...as well as many known cults, I might add. I went to those cults with my bible and STRONG'S concordance under my arm ready to "defend the faith" and point out the 'error of their way'. Then one night, as I was trying to study/memorize the cult busting classic... 'The Kingdom of the Cults'...the Holy Spirit tapped me on the shoulder and said; "Major in the light and don't worry about the darkness." I personally believe I have, even though most here are sure I've been deceived.For me, in order to find out what the Bible says about a subject, it is important to lay to one side our preconceived ideas and doctrines.
Only if one refuses to look at the bibles out there that don't dictate the definition of a word based upon religious doctrine, but scholastic consistency. You won't find "eternal hell" in Young's Literal Translation (written by the well know author of Young's Concordance), Or Rotherham's, or 'the Concordant Literal translation just to name the ones I'm more familiar with.Unfortunately, by stating that the Bible indicates "Hell is forever and ever" yet alternative ideas are presented as only thoughts, I'm afraid this thread won't be able to do what I would have liked it to do.
Yes, I did. And then you write a page long reason for why that statement is so true. I'm not sure what you expect me to say. If it hurt that bad, maybe you should just do the Christian thing, and forgive me. That's what God had me do in similar situations. Usually Fundamentalists, but at least we shouldn't have to worry about that on this Forum as much.On another thread you make mention of "666 denominations"
You're missing the point. It doesn't hurt because I'm dead to it. If my flesh were hanging out, yes it would sting, no doubt. I know God's in the church and if He wanted me somewhere else, I would have left long ago (with no regrets).Yes, I did. And then you write a page long reason for why that statement is so true. I'm not sure what you expect me to say. If it hurt that bad, maybe you should just do the Christian thing, and forgive me.
Poor discernment, I never said He wasn't.I know God's in the church
Poor discernment again, that is not what I believe or, am saying. I'm pointing out the blatant failure that is represented by all the 'isms' out there, as in denominational-ism. I just consider, as MANY do, a 'denomination' to be a tombstone to the last move of God in the Spirit. It's what happens when 'the church' stops following 'the cloud' and the 'pillar of fire' of the Spirit to camp around the newest thing revealed by God. They then defend that 'place' with their religious lives. I still fellowship with 'believers' in those 'denominations'....or should I say 'the church' within those 'religious institutions' of man. I even fellowship with tongue speaking Catholics...so do I think God is dead? NO! He is just aware of our arrogance and unbelief. He only manifests, in as much as we are representatives of Him. I've heard numerous American speakers say they hate to come to America, because they see God MOVING so mightily in the church of Africa, when they speak...WHY?The whole, "BTW, did you notice you used the term 666 when commenting about denominations?" That apparently means that you think all that the Holy Spirit has been doing in power down here is not even of God.
This is funny/sad. It is for the very reason you mention above that I do post my observation. You are in denial of any sickness in the institutional church of today. My cry, is the cry of the heart of the Father; "Quit fighting so much you are an embarrassment to the Spirit of unity which I prayed for my church to have."So if you don't want to believe that the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is really a person with feelings, a voice, etc.(and is God!), that is your choice.
The "discernment" issue is not so much whether or not my assessments are entirely accurate, but more importantly that the words reflect the spirit of discontent by which you speak. The Lord does not afford us any room to speak of denominations as such (666). This offends those in them, and as you say, God is moving in them. I'm glad you can see that, but just as I can't talk about Universalists (666). See what I mean?Poor discernment, I never said He wasn't.
I just consider, as MANY do, a 'denomination' to be a tombstone to the last move of God in the Spirit.
I understand full well that the church is in need of renewal. The Lord told me not to judge His church, so it is up to me to pray about it, not really focus on it. Be thankful that He is here and answers prayer.You are in denial of any sickness in the institutional church of today.
That is my desire too. Why don't we agree not to speak of the church negatively and not address doctrinal differences here?..."Quit fighting so much you are an embarrassment to the Spirit of unity which I prayed for my church to have."
True, I have discontent...or as some might like to waffle with; I have "righteous indignation".The "discernment" issue is not so much whether or not my assessments are entirely accurate, but more importantly that the words reflect the spirit of discontent by which you speak.
I don't think the Father is any more offended by this than when Jesus told the Jews (chosen people) they were "of their Father the devil." My opinion, I admit.The Lord does not afford us any room to speak of denominations as such (666). This offends those in them, and as you say, God is moving in them.
I actually saw 'that' when you made this comment on post 66 of the other thread.I'm glad you can see that, but just as I can't talk about Universalists (666). See what I mean?
But I believe that the 'true church' can and will turn back, once they see the error. I believe Jesus is coming back for a church that is 'perfect' "without spot or wrinkle." And I don't think 'it/we' are there yet. Nor do I think it will become 'perfect' because we all agree on doctrine.666 means you've made your allegiance with the devil (with no turning back).
That's all I am trying to get across by slapping it in the face with such a 'shocking' (but in my view, true) statement. I am not forcing/demaning that you or anyone agree with me.I understand full well that the church is in need of renewal.
You should do what He has told you...I agree, but you must also let others do what He has told them.The Lord told me not to judge His church, so it is up to me to pray about it, not really focus on it. Be thankful that He is here and answers prayer.
I think it is because we are all still looking for the surety of 'doctrinal purity'. And the church simply doesn't have it. That's why I think that true 'unity of the church' will be based upon acceptance of one claiming to be a spirit/born-again brother. And if he has a lot of bad doctrine is he any less a brother?That is my desire too. Why don't we agree not to speak of the church negatively and not address doctrinal differences here?
But that is the very dilemma that I am trying to point out; if this was 'easy' it would have been made 'conclusive' by the guys with all the degrees. But not even 'they' agree, because they too have become 'indoctrinated' and can't waver because that, in itself is a sign of loosing.Since I really just want to present the verses and look at the Greek and Hebrew Words (not just in cherry picked, isolated instances that support a doctrinal inclination), I want the evidence to conclusively show what it will.
The enemy ALWAYS has something at stake. To 'give' an offense is wrong, but someone 'taking' an offense is even worse.It is the enemy that has something at stake in the matter. He would use any manner of offense to keep from losing his stake in those who are convinced in a way that does not agree with the Word.
That is the heart of a man that God will work with.I'm not looking to "win" an argument. I'm looking for the truth and I am willing to lay aside arguments and the approval of man to reach that place.
Again, 'the heart of God'.I'd rather put agape love back into this too because the Holy Spirit abides there.
Not a chance. You can start one over there if you wish. You can avoid any moderator rebukes by not making comments such as you have in the Orthodox section...But as I've said before, this topic is really not even supposed to be in this forum. I personally feel that honoring the 'rules' here at CF would be for this to be moved to UNORTHODOX to avoid any moderator rebukes.
I don't think the Father is any more offended by this than when Jesus told the Jews (chosen people) they were "of their Father the devil." My opinion, I admit.
But I believe that the 'true church' can and will turn back, once they see the error.
That's all I am trying to get across by slapping it in the face with such a 'shocking' (but in my view, true) statement.
I just consider, as MANY do, a 'denomination' to be a tombstone to the last move of God in the Spirit.
I said: "Why don't we agree not to speak of the church negatively and not address doctrinal differences here?"You are in denial of any sickness in the institutional church of today.
So I shall continue, without giving offense, but remaining focused, and you must choose to abide by the rules of the forum in the manner that you participate. This should agree with what you say He told you.You should do what He has told you...I agree, but you must also let others do what He has told them.
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