Infant Baptism

[Lion King]

What does the child do to lose the gift?

When the willfully reject their Father, kinda like what the prodigal son did.

I agree the passage doesn't apply to being spiritually clean, but that also makes it have no value to your argument that babies are by default spiritually clean.

As I've said several times before, the LORD gives every infant His Spirit (though in different measures):

Out of the mouth of babes and infants have you ordained strength because of your enemies, that you might still the enemy and the avenger. Psalm 8:2

At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank you, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hid these things from the wise and prudent, and have revealed them to babes. Matthew 11:25

And when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying in the temple, and saying, Hosanna to the son of David; they were sore displeased, And said to him, Hear you what these say? And Jesus said to them, Yes; have you never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings you have perfected praise? Matthew 21:15-16

Well, put some thought into and come up with a reasonable alternative and I'll consider it.

How do babies do the will of the Father?

I'm out of here, good night.

Well, babies have pure hearts for one. Their minds are not yet polluted with the knowledge of this world. This is why it's easier for children to accept the word of God than it is for adults. Some call this naivety, but I like to call it humility.

And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 18:3

 

[Rev Randy]

Childlike faith.

 

[VolRaider]

I have one but I think our definition of baptism is different.
How about the unborn John the Baptist. Imagine that an unborn infant filled with the Holy Spirit.
No need for Children? Childhood is not practice for life. Childhood is life. If it took knowledge to be saved, then what about those with mental defects? Do we also fail to baptize them?
At what age are you saying we should baptize. Do we ask our children to believe or tell them to believe?
Before we adopted our Child, we already were raising her. She was still in diapers but speaking a few words. We took her to be baptized. Not because she understood the gospel of Christ but because the Gospel is what we (meaning my daughter and me)believe. I did not offer her an option to believe anything else.Now if in later years she decided to forego those beliefs for another, then it will be on her head. A child believes what the child's parents teach them. A young woman or young man decides on their own.
Now if I actually believed baptism was nothing more than a public profession of faith, then I'd agree it would not be for infants. But it is so much more than that. We don't even do it in public but within the confines of the Church.(in the Nave) It's family (church family) in attendance not the public.

Great answer! My children were baptised in infancy because I'm not giving them the option to find Jesus on their own. They are gonna find it because they live under my roof and my Lord commands that I raise them in the Faith (see that "stumbling block" quote in the Bible). God used my parents to bring me to the Faith as well. Not all of us have an earth-shattering wake-up call to Christ. Sometimes it's instantaneous, sometimes gradual. In the end, our belief in Christ is what saves us.

 

[Lion King]

My fault, not lucid again. I meant where the Holy Spirit actually comes into to dwell after Pentecost, ie, the infants need the Holy Spirit's indwelling.

David and John had a relationship with the LORD even before birth, the same is for all infants.

But You are He who took Me out of the womb;
You made Me trust while on My mother’s breasts.
I was cast upon You from birth.
From My mother’s womb
You have been My God. - Psalm 22:9-10

.....and if water baptism is for those "that believe in me," ie, Matt.18:6, 10, Jesus picked up this little child and he cradled this little child in his arms to his breast, Mk.9:36, ie, most likely this child was under 3 years of age and if at Lk.18:15, "babes" (includes sucklings) the same in Lk.1:41 where John the Baptist leaped in the womb and was filled with the Holy Spirit and if infants need rebirth and are guilty with "hereditary sin," and if infants can be holy, ICor.7:14, one can only conclude that infants need water baptismal rebirth.

What is "hereditary sin", if I may ask?

 

[SAT]

hello,

God gave you to your parents, so your parents had authority over you, and as Christian parents their expectation for you is you would be Christian, so on your behalf baptized you, now you are to honour your mother and farther, by your continued walk in their faith (even if you had some time out) that brings honour to your parents, that honour can only exist because of what you are now, that is a full member of the family of Christ.
I have experienced many serial baptism people, they just go church to church getting baptised, often going below the water sinners and coming up sinners, why because god’s grace was not accepted by them, they just needed to earn it often so they can hold god to ransom. Just be careful you don’t fall into that trap. God will ways judge you by your motives and heart, not if you have ticked all the boxes, as if that was the case there is no hope for any of us.
All that said if you have any doubt have another word with your minister, or just get baptised again if that will settle you.

 

[narnia59]

What is "hereditary sin", if I may ask?

Here's a nice, evangelical-type view of the subject.

Did we all inherit sin from Adam and Eve?

 

[Lion King]

Here's a nice, evangelical-type view of the subject.

Did we all inherit sin from Adam and Eve?

Thanks.

However, I don't agree with the notion that we inherit sin from Adam and Eve. The evidence provided in that link seems to have been taken out of context imo.

For instance;

Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me. Psalm 51:5

This passage does not mean David was born with sin as the author in the link claims, but rather with a sinful nature.

 

[MamaZ]

when you were baptised as an infant it was your parents making the choice. I would make the choice myself if I had been baptised as an infant. I would be baptised into Christ as an adult also.

 

[PaladinValer]

when you were baptised as an infant it was your parents making the choice. I would make the choice myself if I had been baptised as an infant. I would be baptised into Christ as an adult also.

Impossible and sacrilege.

Once baptized, always baptized. Baptism based on understanding is Gnosticism, not Christianity; it is an anti-Christian teaching.

Faith isn't intellectual. To say otherwise is Gnostic.

 

[Lion King]

when you were baptised as an infant it was your parents making the choice. I would make the choice myself if I had been baptised as an infant. I would be baptised into Christ as an adult also.

This.

Don't think baptism as an infant counts before God as it was not you making the decision, but your parents. To me, infant baptism is just an empty ritual as all children belong to God whether baptized or not. Infants have no sin, since they have no knowledge between good and evil, so don't really understand what kind of sins folks are trying to get rid off by baptizing a baby.

And the little ones that you said would be taken captive, your children who do not yet know good from bad--they will enter the land. I will give it to them and they will take possession of it. Deuteronomy 1:39

If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn't do it, it is sin for them. James 4:17

 

[Rev Randy]

Great answer! My children were baptised in infancy because I'm not giving them the option to find Jesus on their own. They are gonna find it because they live under my roof and my Lord commands that I raise them in the Faith (see that "stumbling block" quote in the Bible). God used my parents to bring me to the Faith as well. Not all of us have an earth-shattering wake-up call to Christ. Sometimes it's instantaneous, sometimes gradual. In the end, our belief in Christ is what saves us.

 

[Rev Randy]

Funny how those who subscribe to believer's baptism are in complete agreement with heretics like the Mormons, JWs, Christadelphians, etc.

Not complete agreement by a long shot. Mormons believe they can proxy baptize the dead for their salvation.

 

[MamaZ]

circumcision in the OT was an outward covenant. The bond woman. The new covenant circumcion of heart. Only God can do that.

 

[PaladinValer]

circumcision in the OT was an outward covenant. The bond woman. The new covenant circumcion of heart. Only God can do that.

Straw Man. Read my reply again.

 

[MamaZ]

Impossible and sacrilege.

Once baptized, always baptized. Baptism based on understanding is Gnosticism, not Christianity; it is an anti-Christian teaching.

Faith isn't intellectual. To say otherwise is Gnostic.

Depends on the baptism. I have seen many a person baptized with water and they do not even know the Lord. So if she has questions about it then I would be baptized into Christ knowing what I was doing.. Pretty simple actually. For it is not water baptism that saves a man. One must be born again. This is a spiritual baptism of the Lord where HE takes out the heart of stone and circumcises our hearts with HIS Spirit. Pretty awesome God...

 

[PaladinValer]

Depends on the baptism. I have seen many a person baptized with water and they do not even know the Lord.

Find me one person who comprehends Jesus, and I'll show you a Person of the Most Blessed Trinity.

Salvation based on comprehension is Gnosticism. There isn't a Gnostic message board but a Christian one. Why is Gnosticism being promoted here?

If my salvation was based on comprehension, then I'm going to experience hell along with the rest of humanity. No chance.

Advancing credobaptism as doctrinal is contrary to historical Christian belief and practice and is Gnostic. I want nothing to do with it. I cannot stand Gnosticism.

So if she has questions about it then I would be baptized into Christ knowing what I was doing.. Pretty simple actually. For it is not water baptism that saves a man. One must be born again. This is a spiritual baptism of the Lord where HE takes out the heart of stone and circumcises our hearts with HIS Spirit. Pretty awesome God...

The Holy Writ says the Sacrament of Holy Baptism both saves, is necessary, and makes us born from above. That's its historic interpretation and that's the one Christianity has always taught.

I do not recognize a demiurge that requires knowledge.

 

[MamaZ]

Find me one person who comprehends Jesus, and I'll show you a Person of the Most Blessed Trinity.

Salvation based on comprehension is Gnosticism. There isn't a Gnostic message board but a Christian one. Why is Gnosticism being promoted here?

If my salvation was based on comprehension, then I'm going to experience hell along with the rest of humanity. No chance.

Advancing credobaptism as doctrinal is contrary to historical Christian belief and practice and is Gnostic. I want nothing to do with it. I cannot stand Gnosticism.



The Holy Writ says the Sacrament of Holy Baptism both saves, is necessary, and makes us born from above. That's its historic interpretation and that's the one Christianity has always taught.

I do not recognize a demiurge that requires knowledge.

Comprehension? I am talking heart to heart relationship with the Lord. Just as you would have with your own earthly dad.. Intimate with the Lord in all things.

 

[PaladinValer]

Comprehension? I am talking heart to heart relationship with the Lord. Just as you would have with your own earthly dad.. Intimate with the Lord in all things.

Not if you are talking about understanding or the ability to comprehend. Baptism isn't about understanding; it is all faith. Learn what a sacrament is, which I explained earlier, and learn why it is the official teaching of the Early and Undivided Church and why disagreement is not orthodox and, in fact, Gnostic.

 

[MamaZ]

Not if you are talking about understanding or the ability to comprehend. Baptism isn't about understanding; it is all faith. Learn what a sacrament is, which I explained earlier, and learn why it is the official teaching of the Early and Undivided Church and why disagreement is not orthodox and, in fact, Gnostic.

I am not interested in sacraments. I am interested in Christ and a deep relationship with Him and the Father through the HS which dwells in me. I too have been water baptized. Once when I was 8 and then when I came to know Christ.

 

[katherine2001]

Mama Z, do you believe that a severely developmentally disabled or mentally ill person could be baptized? What if they did not have the ability to comprehend? They can't have faith? I remember when practically nobody under the age of 10 (and maybe 12) was baptized in most Evangelical churches. Now, it is not that unusual for children as young as 5 and 6 to be baptized because they do accept Christ, even at that young age and have some understanding of what they are doing. I've also seen and heard very young children do and make statements that show more faith and understanding than a lot of adults. Jesus did not say for us to become like little children for nothing. They have much more of an ability to trust than we adults do. Trusting God is much more important than comprehension.