Infant Baptism, why do you reject it?

[katherine2001]

Yes, we are very aware that you feel the need to repeat, ad nauseum, that water doesn't save. I know this will come as a total shock to you, but we don't believe that water saves, either.

God saves. He chooses to work through the water of baptism. And his gift is freely given to EVERYONE. Jesus says, 'let the children come to me.' You deny that by rejecting their right to receive the freely given gift of baptism.

! God loves children and baptism makes them God's children. If anyone needs God's protection, it is innocent little children, especially infants. Children understand a lot more than we give them credit for, and that includes infants. Sometimes, the faith that children have in God sets an example for us adults--it has almost moved me to tears sometimes. In the Orthodox Church, infants receive Communion from the time they are baptized (before they get teeth, they are just given the wine). This way, they are raised in the nurture of Christ and His Body. Infants need to be God's more than any of us, because they are helpless. Remember that the Scriptures say that entire households were baptized, and household means all people living in the home. In the census, when you are asked how many people are in the household, you include the infants and toddlers, don't you?

 

[katherine2001]

Please show us even one example of a baptism done in the New Testament that was not done in water.

 

[Lynn73]

! God loves children and baptism makes them God's children. If anyone needs God's protection, it is innocent little children, especially infants. Children understand a lot more than we give them credit for, and that includes infants. Sometimes, the faith that children have in God sets an example for us adults--it has almost moved me to tears sometimes. In the Orthodox Church, infants receive Communion from the time they are baptized (before they get teeth, they are just given the wine). This way, they are raised in the nurture of Christ and His Body. Infants need to be God's more than any of us, because they are helpless. Remember that the Scriptures say that entire households were baptized, and household means all people living in the home. In the census, when you are asked how many people are in the household, you include the infants and toddlers, don't you?

So God refuses to have anything to do with little babies unless you put water on them and wine in their mouth? He can't show them grace otherwise? He can't protect them unless physical water has been applied? Oh boy. Baptism doesn't make anyone God's child. Faith in Christ does. Since the biblical example is that water baptism is for believers and this is something babies are incapable of, the logical conclusions is that Christ's blood covers babies and they don't need water dunking.

 

[Lynn73]

Please show us even one example of a baptism done in the New Testament that was not done in water.

Have you head of the baptizing of the Spirit? Believers are baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ, the church, when they put faith in Christ. Immediately. He doesn't have to wait til they've been dunked, which is a symbol of what's already taken place in their spirit.

 

[nephilimiyr]

So God refuses to have anything to do with little babies unless you put water on them and wine in their mouth? He can't show them grace otherwise? He can't protect them unless physical water has been applied? Oh boy. Baptism doesn't make anyone God's child. Faith in Christ does.

I had mentioned this same thing a long time ago and still no one has commented on it. I do think it is legit to bring up and it does deserve an answer. What about all the infants who die being an infant who has not recieved baptism? Why should infants who have no means to decide whether they are going to believe in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour spend eternity in hell because someone didn't baptise them?

If the belief is true, an infant who dies an infant and is baptised will then go to heaven because it was privileged enough to have a believing parent who believes in baptism. What about all the millions of babies not privileged like the other few? Um, check that, the very, very, very, very few.

I said this before and I'll say it again, if you believe in infant baptism, great, baptise your babies, no one here is trying to stop you from doing so. Just because I don't believe it's necessary (and I think it's safe to add we to that) doesn't mean we condemn you for practising it.

I just happen to believe that God does protect babies from the fires of hell. Why? because I don't believe God is going to hold babies accountable, with or without baptism, for not believeing in His Son even when they had no capability of believing in Him.

 

[Melethiel]

Why the assumption that infants can't have faith? That seems to be what you whole argument rests on.

 

[GraceInHim]

The Lord should not have to spell out for you that infants don't need baptizing.

That is right, he should not, Parents should obey this, if they get baptized, then why not their infants.. what is the difference between Abraham circumcising all the children at 8 days old through Moses through Christ times? They were ordered to do so.. and this was not just so to have them know who was a Jew, because there were many others as Lot, Essau, Ishmael, and many more who received this mark and went their own way... even the most Samaritans were circumcised, they were 1/2 Jewish, they were once part of the promised people..

Over and over we see in His word that people believe first, then comes baptism. Phillip told the eunich that he could be baptized if he believed with all his heart. Why can't you get that babies cannot hear, understand, and accept the gospel therefore there is no need to baptize them? Water cannot save, anyway, imho

How do we know what an infant thinks, if I as a Parent received baptism why not then why my own child?
Also if sin is from Man and came down from generation as the Bible states, why not wash this sin away from an infant sooner? To me it is done as the OT did this to babies as a sign of giving their babies to God as Abraham did..

The bigger sin comes after we are born, our own self doings.. this is removed by confessing our sins and obeying God and trusting him more in our life.. but we all are born with sin..

peace

 

[Jesus Is Real]

Hey Marina!!!

I miss ya!

VERY CUTE (mini) ICON'S HERE:
http://www.online-thecatsmeow.com/emoticonsindex.shtml

 

[GraceInHim]

Hey Marina!!!

I miss ya!

VERY CUTE (mini) ICON'S HERE:
http://www.online-thecatsmeow.com/emoticonsindex.shtml

Hello Jsisrl,

love you also.. sent u a pm..

 

[Jesus Is Real]

nephilimiyr,


Yo!

 

[nephilimiyr]

Why the assumption that infants can't have faith? That seems to be what you whole argument rests on.

Well if you want to assume that they do have the capability to have faith in Jesus Christ then you can go ahead and do so. I would be interested in your thoughts on that though.

Perhaps I can answer your question directly. I am the father of 4 boys so I do know what babies are like. I can't see them haveing faith in Jesus Christ because they don't show they have faith in anything. When they get hungry they don't show faith that they are going to be feed, they just respond to their hunger and demand to to be feed. Likewise with a number of other things.

Infants have to go through a period of learning before they can do anything on their own much less wonder about who created the universe. Infants spend their time learning about the universe around them and it's not until much later when they can even have thoughts about who created it all.

Trust me, LOL, infants don't have faith in anything. They only know how to respond when their body needs or wants something. Their minds develop fast however, some faster than others.

yah know, I know a guy who told me he was 4 when he gave his life to Jesus Christ and was baptised. He's a minister today in his 30s.

 

[Jesus Is Real]

Hello Jsisrl,

love you also.. sent u a pm..

Oh thanks,....I just answered you back~

 

[nephilimiyr]

nephilimiyr,


Yo!

Hey, it's my friend Jesus Is real!

Yah know I made you a CF friend and I saw that the other day and can't remember you for the life of me.

LOL, I'm sure it had to be something good we were talking about once that made me clasify you in that way.

This is embarrassing.

 

[Jesus Is Real]

Well if you want to assume that they do have the capability to have faith in Jesus Christ then you can go ahead and do so.

Perhaps I can answer your question directly. I am the father of 4 boys so I do know what babies are like. I can't see them haveing faith in Jesus Christ because they do show faith in anything else. When they get hungry they don't show faith that they are going to be feed, they just respond to their hunger and demand to to be feed. Likewise with a number of other things.

Infants have to go through a period of learning before they can do anything on their own much less wonder about who created the universe. Infants spend their time learning about the universe around them and it's not until much later when they can even have thoughts about who created it all.

Trust me, LOL, infants don't have faith in anything. They only know how to respond when their body needs or wants something. Their minds develop fast however, some faster than others.

yah know, I know a guy who told me he was 4 when he gave his life to Jesus Christ and was baptised. He's a minister today in his 30s.

How are you doing Nep?

 

[meowmie]

I was raised Lutheran and spent most of my first 50 years in that denomination. A few times I went to Baptist churches but always returned and again became a Lutheran.

I did this not because of the doctrine taught there but because it is how I was raised...it made my Mother happy...I love the music...everything BUT doctrine.

Now at 58, I am a "full fledged" Baptist. I have always questioned infant baptism. Having heard the why's and wherefore's for so many years, I still questioned it. No Heaven unless you are baptized??? The one Biblical incident that lead me to doubt was the thief on the cross. I KNOW he was not baptized before he died and yet Jesus said "Today thou shalt be with me in Paradise".

I had asked various Lutheran clergy about that and they said it was up to God if an unbaptized person for example, the thief was taken to Heaven. I always questioned if God would allow one person in Heaven, would He ALWAYS send the unbaptized to Hell every other time????

I don't question the Baptism issue anymore. Baptism does NOT save as I was taught just like the Lord's Supper does not keep us in the faith as I also heard all my life.

Some differences in doctrine are rather petty but this one I consider VERY important. In one, baptism saves so we are relying on a WORK of our own doing to partially save us. God tells us that our works do NOT save us.

An indepth study of the Word has cleared my mind on this one. No listening to pastors of both denominations, no Christian authors telling me one thing or another. Rather allowing the Spirit of God to speak to me through God's love letter to us...the BIBLE!!

 

[Melethiel]

Well if you want to assume that they do have the capability to have faith in Jesus Christ then you can go ahead and do so. I would be interested in your thoughts on that though.

Perhaps I can answer your question directly. I am the father of 4 boys so I do know what babies are like. I can't see them haveing faith in Jesus Christ because they don't show they have faith in anything. When they get hungry they don't show faith that they are going to be feed, they just respond to their hunger and demand to to be feed. Likewise with a number of other things.

Infants have to go through a period of learning before they can do anything on their own much less wonder about who created the universe. Infants spend their time learning about the universe around them and it's not until much later when they can even have thoughts about who created it all.

Trust me, LOL, infants don't have faith in anything. They only know how to respond when their body needs or wants something. Their minds develop fast however, some faster than others.

yah know, I know a guy who told me he was 4 when he gave his life to Jesus Christ and was baptised. He's a minister today in his 30s.

What do you make of these verses then?

Yet you are he who took me from the womb;
you made me trust you at my mother's breasts.
10On you was I cast from my birth,
and from my mother's womb you have been my God.

 

[Melethiel]

Some differences in doctrine are rather petty but this one I consider VERY important. In one, baptism saves so we are relying on a WORK of our own doing to partially save us. God tells us that our works do NOT save us.

If you were raised Lutheran, you would have surely learned that it is NOT a work of our own doing, but of God's doing.

 

[Lynn73]

Why the assumption that infants can't have faith? That seems to be what you whole argument rests on.

Have you ever seen a baby show that he or she has understood the gospel of Christ as explained to them and express that they do have faith in that gospel and accept it? All babies know is that they exist and their body has needs and if those needs aren't met they will very loudly let you know.

 

[edward]

The one Biblical incident that lead me to doubt was the thief on the cross. I KNOW he was not baptized before he died and yet Jesus said "Today thou shalt be with me in Paradise".

How do you know that? The bible doesn't say "he was not baptized".

Luke 23:43 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."

Sounds like a follower of Jesus to me. Multitudes had been baptized by John the Baptist and by Jesus' disciples (Matt. 3:5,6; John 4:1,2). It is very probable that the thief was baptized.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Well if you want to assume that they do have the capability to have faith in Jesus Christ then you can go ahead and do so. I would be interested in your thoughts on that though.

Perhaps I can answer your question directly. I am the father of 4 boys so I do know what babies are like. I can't see them haveing faith in Jesus Christ because they don't show they have faith in anything. When they get hungry they don't show faith that they are going to be feed, they just respond to their hunger and demand to to be feed. Likewise with a number of other things.

Infants have to go through a period of learning before they can do anything on their own much less wonder about who created the universe. Infants spend their time learning about the universe around them and it's not until much later when they can even have thoughts about who created it all.

Trust me, LOL, infants don't have faith in anything. They only know how to respond when their body needs or wants something. Their minds develop fast however, some faster than others.

yah know, I know a guy who told me he was 4 when he gave his life to Jesus Christ and was baptised. He's a minister today in his 30s.

Wow, I just noticed something in what I said and it is good!

Talking about this lack of evidence in faith that babies don't show is the same with us when it comes to works and deeds and our own faith. James says without works faith is dead. The odvious implication of that concerning this topic I'm going to by pass, it's just too odvious. But the way I believe in what James was saying is that we can claim all we want that we believe in Jesus Christ and even "saved" but there has to be somekind of evidence that shows this to be true. James says this evidence is good works and good deeds, they are the outward expressions that a change in one's heart has come about. Without these evidence's you are going to instead show the evidence's of sin, the flesh, the opposite of love. If you are showing signs of anything that is the opposite of love then your claims of being one of God's children is null and void.