Inevitable problem with abiogenesis

dad

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If mistakes can happen, then you can't be sure they haven't happened. The point is, you can't be 100% sure that something apparently shown to be true actually is true. Human history provides plenty of examples of that..
If God allowed choices then the wrong choices that are mistakes must happen. That does not mean He made mistakes. Nor does it mean He cannot maneuver around ours to get something done.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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If God allowed choices then the wrong choices that are mistakes must happen. That does not mean He made mistakes. Nor does it mean He cannot maneuver around ours to get something done.
So does that mean, "It's All Part Of God's Plan", and "God Works In Mysterious Ways" ? ;)
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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I would think so. But I suspect He may have been happy as a lark if Adam chose the better way.
I don't see why - if he was omniscient, he would already know what Adam was inevitably going to do; or maybe he wouldn't - some Christians seem to believe God isn't omniscient... the lack of consistency in God definitions can be confusing.
 
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dad

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I don't see why - if he was omniscient, he would already know what Adam was inevitably going to do; or maybe he wouldn't - some Christians seem to believe God isn't omniscient... the lack of consistency in God definitions can be confusing.

Yes He knew and planned for it before the world was. I doubt in 50 million years of living, a person would regret that we learned what we did even though it had to be the school of hard knocks.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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Yes He knew and planned for it before the world was. I doubt in 50 million years of living, a person would regret that we learned what we did even though it had to be the school of hard knocks.
So it seems contrary to suggest that God 'may have been happy as a lark if Adam chose the better way' when He knew all along what Adam would do (and, had He wished, He could have arranged circumstances such that Adam would choose the better way).

It just seems rather odd to suggest that an omnipotent God arranged things so He wasn't as happy as He could be.
 
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dad

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So it seems contrary to suggest that God 'may have been happy as a lark if Adam chose the better way' when He knew all along what Adam would do (and, had He wished, He could have arranged circumstances such that Adam would choose the better way).

It just seems rather odd to suggest that an omnipotent God arranged things so He wasn't as happy as He could be.
Not if He loved us and wanted great things for us. Great things that needed us to be able to chose to love Him. Even after the millennium is over, the people will revolt. Another lesson that man without God is an evil failure. Adam learned that too. I learned from looking at the wicked world that man is a fail without Jesus. I think the angels learned too. How would we learn that and be able to move on to the next level or grade another way?
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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If you looked at a poor butterfly larvae before the butterfly came out, you might think God was cruel.
Do you mean a butterfly pupa? (the larva is the caterpillar). Either way, I don't see why you call it 'poor', or why it might suggest a cruel God. Care to explain?
 
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dad

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Do you mean a butterfly pupa? (the larva is the caterpillar). Either way, I don't see why you call it 'poor', or why it might suggest a cruel God. Care to explain?
If all a child saw was a creature seemingly trapped in a prison, they might think it was cruel. Only in having a broader knowledge that the seeming pain or bad conditions resulted in a flying wonder, would we know it was all just a part of a longer process. In life if all we see is the suffering and bad conditions and limits and prison of this temporal life on earth...we might likewise miss the big picture of our grand purpose and true life in eternity.
 
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dad

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A pupa is less a prison than a changing room. Education is the key.
We are getting the education in life here on earth! We are learning stuff for eternity. The stuff about present laws and physics and such will fall by the wayside in the dust of time. Remembered perhaps only as a joke and ancient history. The education kids get on ungodly sexual ideas will also die.

Rather than cluck around some little cocoon or something, and be rather ugly, we will fly off and be beautiful butterflies so to speak. Being ugly and caged up in a limited area is not forever. The struggles of this life are part of shedding the limits and shackles of this life. In the big picture, the sorrows and suffering of the present world is just education for eternity. To obsess over instances of bad things here, and results of sin here, is to miss the big picture and accuse God falsely.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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... To obsess over instances of bad things here, and results of sin here, is to miss the big picture and accuse God falsely.
Er, you were the one who brought it up in the first place.

"What the caterpillar calls the end, the rest of the world calls a butterfly"
Lao Tzu
 
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dad

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Er, you were the one who brought it up in the first place.

"What the caterpillar calls the end, the rest of the world calls a butterfly"
Lao Tzu
I brought up the limited perspective thing comparing how some people think God is bad for allowing evil on earth, with this life being just a small temporary stage of life in eternity. Like a butterfly goes through stages to get to be a butterfly.
 
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