Indulgences...

[Reformationist]

I will not debate. I will not argue. I will not say anything offensive. All I want to know is whether the following is true and if so, how do you feel about it:

"Pope John Paul II has revived the practice of earning indulgences, a decision which has caused concern and embarrassed among British Roman Catholics. On the first Sunday of Advent he issued a Papal Bull for the Millennium, Incarnationis Mysterium (The Mystery of the Incarnation), which describes in detail how Roman Catholics may obtain indulgences both for themselves and for souls in Purgatory."

Thank you,
God bless

 

[thereselittleflower]

Hi Reformationist

I don't know why that article says what it says, but indulgences have never gone away in the Church that I know of, so I don't know what this article means by "revived" . . . What is the source of your article? From what I understand, there is some misinformation there . .


I should also ask you what your understanding of indulgences is, what you think they are, what you think they do as I would not want us passing like 2 ships in the night thinking we arer talking about the same thing when in actuallity we are not.


Peace in Him!

 

[Reformationist]

I'll get you the link and my opinion on indulgences shortly. I have to pick my son up from school.

Just as a side note, I am not asking whether the article where I found that is accurate. I'm just asking if indulgences were reinstituted, or, as you point out, never done away with.

In the interim, can someone explain what the modern day practice of indulgences is?

Thanks,
God bless

 

[fingerprint]

Here is some good reading on indulgences for you http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07783a.htm

 

[thereselittleflower]

I'll get you the link and my opinion on indulgences shortly. I have to pick my son up from school.

Hi again reformationsit. Actually, what I was asking was not necessarily your opinion of them, but what you understood them to be . . if you can share that real quick, that would be most helpful.

The modern day practice of indulgences is what it always has been, but to better answer your question, it would really help to understand what you think indulgences are, what you think Catholics believe they do.


Peace in Him!

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Hi Don:

Thanks for your question on Indulgences. Thereselittleflower is correct, in that Indulgences have always been a part of Catholic teaching. They cannot be used to buy forgiveness of sin, as they are only granted for the remission of the temporal punishment due to sin that has already been forgiven by Christ's atonement. The Pope has this authority as Peter's successor. Peter got the authority from Christ Himself.

Matthew 16:19
"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."


I would question the article as the Pope wouldn't REVIVE a practice that has never ceased. I feel that indulgences are a wonderful use of church authority, and they greatly enhance our walk with the Lord.

peace in Christ,

Jerome


ps for more info, you can consult the "Handbook of Indulgences, Norms and Grants" or ask any further questions you like

 

[Veritas]

Indulgences never went away, only the abuses of them. According to the book of Maccabees, praying for the dead and giving alms to the poor are still righteous things to do. One can also gain indulgences for reading the bible! So much for the Church discouraging bible reading

 

[Reformationist]

Hi Reformationist

Hi thereselittleflower. I'm curious. Did you pick a name like that because you are Native American? It just sounds like the type of name a Native American would have. I hope that does not offend you.

I don't know why that article says what it says, but indulgences have never gone away in the Church that I know of, so I don't know what this article means by "revived" . . . What is the source of your article? From what I understand, there is some misinformation there . .

Well, as I said, I didn't read the article. I was just wondering about the practice of indulgences. If you're interested, here is the link:

Resurrection of Indulgences

Again, let me reiterate, I am not espousing support for that website. The opening statement of that article made me curious about your church's practice of indulgences.

I should also ask you what your understanding of indulgences is, what you think they are, what you think they do as I would not want us passing like 2 ships in the night thinking we arer talking about the same thing when in actuallity we are not.

Hows this?:

"An indulgence is a remission of the temporal punishment due to sins that have already been forgiven in the Sacrament of Penance. This temporal punishment exists because every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in a state called Purgatory. Indulgences are obtained through he Church, which opens to us the treasury of merits of Christ and the saints. The remission can be plenary or partial, depending on whether it removes all or only some of the temporal punishment attached to sin. The indulgence can be applied to the person performing the works of devotion, penance, and charity or to a soul in Purgatory."

God bless

 

[Reformationist]

Here is some good reading on indulgences for you http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07783a.htm

Thanks.

God bless

 

[Reformationist]

Indulgences never went away, only the abuses of them. According to the book of Maccabees, praying for the dead and giving alms to the poor are still righteous things to do. One can also gain indulgences for reading the bible! So much for the Church discouraging bible reading

What I'm about to ask may sound combative. I don't mean it to. I'm just trying to understand this issue as it was such a large point of contention amongst the medievil Christian church. Weren't those abuses condoned by Pope Leo X?

Thanks,
God bless

 

[RhetorTheo]

I've enjoyed reading Therese and Reformationist. You both are very good at avoiding answering questions, and keeping control of the deb... er, conversation!

 

[RhetorTheo]

Where can I buy an indulgence? Where do the rest of you buy your indulgences, given that they have never gone away?

 

[Reformationist]

I've enjoyed reading Therese and Reformationist. You both are very good at avoiding answering questions, and keeping control of the deb... er, conversation!

Not avoiding anything, at least not intentionally. I, however, must be quite careful in this forum so as not to offend anyone.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Hi thereselittleflower. I'm curious. Did you pick a name like that because you are Native American? It just sounds like the type of name a Native American would have. I hope that does not offend you.

No it does not offend. The name is after St Therese the little flower, a doctor of the Church.

Well, as I said, I didn't read the article. I was just wondering about the practice of indulgences. If you're interested, here is the link:

Resurrection of Indulgences

Again, let me reiterate, I am not espousing support for that website. The opening statement of that article made me curious about your church's practice of indulgences.



Hows this?:

"An indulgence is a remission of the temporal punishment due to sins that have already been forgiven in the Sacrament of Penance. This temporal punishment exists because every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in a state called Purgatory. Indulgences are obtained through he Church, which opens to us the treasury of merits of Christ and the saints. The remission can be plenary or partial, depending on whether it removes all or only some of the temporal punishment attached to sin. The indulgence can be applied to the person performing the works of devotion, penance, and charity or to a soul in Purgatory."

God bless

If you understand it to be so, then we are on the same playing field Some people think it is the remiitting of sin, which it is not. So I wanted to make suer you didn't think that or something else.

Peace in Him!

 

[thereselittleflower]

What I'm about to ask may sound combative. I don't mean it to. I'm just trying to understand this issue as it was such a large point of contention amongst the medievil Christian church. Weren't those abuses condoned by Pope Leo X?

Thanks,
God bless

Which abuses, and specifically how do you think they were condoned?


Peace in Him!

 

[thereselittleflower]

I've enjoyed reading Therese and Reformationist. You both are very good at avoiding answering questions, and keeping control of the deb... er, conversation!

RFLOL!




Peace in Him!

 

[Reformationist]

No it does not offend. The name is after St Therese the little flower, a doctor of the Church.

I see.

If you understand it to be so, then we are on the same playing field Some people think it is the remiitting of sin, which it is not. So I wanted to make suer you didn't think that or something else.

Peace in Him!

So, do you feel that this "Treasury of Merit" or indulgences for that matter is something that is spoken of in the Bible? Also, does the Pope have the power to dispense the merit in the "Treasury of Merit," even to those who are currently in purgatory, thereby granting them early release?

Thanks,
God bless

 

[thereselittleflower]

Where can I buy an indulgence? Where do the rest of you buy your indulgences, given that they have never gone away?

Well, you can't buy indulgences, and the Church never taught you could . . there was an errant and overzealous monk by the name of Tetzel . . if he were still alive, you might be able to buy one from him, but from what I understand, he was so castigated by the Church and blamed for the whole affair with Luther (and he was ill when his superiors finally came down on him for his wrong actions) that the whole thing only worsened his physical condition and he did not live much longer, but succumbed to illness.

I think he was so sternly reprimanded and held accountable for his actions that he probably would die first today rather than sell another indulgence to anyone.


So sorry, but I don't think you can find anyone who will sell one to you . .



Peace in Him!

 

[Benedicta00]

Don,

Indulgences has not been done away with. They were being abused in the Church and they are no longer abused. It wes never ever at any point in any time frame taught that we are to abuse them, i.e., buy them. that was/is nor never will be the Church's teaching on them

Theresa asked and so will I, what do you think they are?

Theresa is named after St. Theresa of Lisueax known also as “The Little Flower of the Child Jesus.” I do believe I have mentioned her to you before. A great St. to read up on. “The Story of a Soul”is a beautiful biography of how a ordinary innocent humble soul can achieve great sanctify and become a great saint. She was also declared a doctor of the Church by JP2 a couple of years ago because her writing were so profound on how we all can use her "little way" to become holy. Knowing how your desire is to become more holy, her "little way" would do you some good.

 

[Reformationist]

Which abuses

Do you believe that there were abuses?

and specifically how do you think they were condoned?

I didn't say they were condoned. I asked if they were condoned. It seems, from my studies, that indulgences carried a much greater weight, and that there were many different kinds, during the time of the building of St. Peter's basilica.

Does the Papacy condone the selling of indulgences and what is it that leads your church's leadership to endorse such a practice? Is there Scripture that supports it? Is it strictly from the teachings of the church fathers? Where did the teaching come from? Has it ALWAYS been a teaching of the Roman Catholic church?

Thanks,
God bless