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Indoctrination or Education?

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by Cotjones, Apr 19, 2012.

  1. hwyangel

    hwyangel Newbie

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    I believe that there are hypocrites in any faith or philosophy, and it's not limited to churches.
     
  2. Cotjones

    Cotjones Junior Member

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    I believe that the church incorrectly views college teaching or more specifically science as faith or philosophy.

    The reason that almost every science class has a lab is so that you don't just get spoon fed the professor's words, you get to see for yourself that what he's saying is true and you get to replicate experiments that prove it.

    The sciences are not based on philosophy, they are based on observation.
    Unless you are part of a philosophy where you don't believe in observations. Christianity and the Bible are not included.

    What the fundamentalist cannot fathom is this:
    "All the corroborative evidence suggests species evolved" ≠ "There is No God"

    I say time and time again, Why do you thing the church banished Galileo to house arrest and burned his life's work? It is because they had constructed their own version of God from the scripture, and Galileo threatened that construct. Even if the Bible is infallible, our interpretation of it most certainly is not. You should not have to pretend that the universe is not how it truly is to maintain your belief in God. If that is necessary, I have serious doubts about the God you are following.

    Romans 1:20
    For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

    Psalm 19:1-6
    To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork. Day to day pours out speech, and night to night reveals knowledge. There is no speech, nor are there words, whose voice is not heard. Their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has set a tent for the sun, which comes out like a bridegroom leaving his chamber, and, like a strong man, runs its course with joy. ...

    1 Timothy 4:4
    For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,
     
  3. hwyangel

    hwyangel Newbie

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    There is a simple statement about the world in general that is a defense against false doctrine.
    "What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done there is nothing new under the sun"
    ECC 1:9

    If there is nothing new under the sun,how is it possible for people to keep finding new interpretations of Scripture? If the Bible is said to be sealed up (Rev. 22:18-19),why does God supposedly keep providing new information to select groups of people?
    Satan keeps trying to say, "You're missing something," or "There's a better way." He told this lie to Adam and Eve,and we all know what happened to them.
     
  4. Cotjones

    Cotjones Junior Member

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    By that logic, how do you explain that those who persecuted Galileo were wrong?

    Nothing new under the sun doesn't refer to new scientific findings.

    You do realize that protestant Christianity is new right?

    I propose the opposite. I propose that MANY years ago we were closer to the truth, and as years have gone by, more and more people have made fringe (derived) believes the mainstream of the Church.
     
  5. holyrokker

    holyrokker Contributor

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    I'm not concerned with determining where hypocrites can be found.
     
  6. hwyangel

    hwyangel Newbie

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    The point is that Gods word is the only truth. I don't know who Galileo is (I'm just a dumb truck driver), or what he has to do with the truth. Im certainly not against free speech. And I don't know what science has to do with the truth other than it occasionally has the ability to observe it.
     
  7. hwyangel

    hwyangel Newbie

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    Is this my cue to shut up? lol
     
  8. beggarsall

    beggarsall Newbie

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    AH! hwyangel! I get it! :idea:

    oh boy, I think I might be the dumb one . . .:eek:
     
  9. holyrokker

    holyrokker Contributor

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    Absolutely not!

    It means there is plenty of room for hypocrites everywhere.

    My initial comment about indoctrination in the church wasn't a "church" vs "college" statement. Simply an expression of my frustration with what often passes as church "education." I encounter far too many Christians who know a lot of "doctrine", but have no idea as to why they really hold those ideas.

    Indoctrination is saying "This is the truth".
    Education is teaching someone how to find out what is and isn't true.

    Indoctrination makes a statement that is assumed to be true, then lists a bunch of Bible verses to support that idea.

    Education teaches someone how to study.
     
  10. Cotjones

    Cotjones Junior Member

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    Galileo was a man who hypothesized that the earth was not the center of the solar system.

    At the time the catholic church believed that it was, and they believed the scriptures said it was.

    1 Chronicles 16:30:
    Tremble before him, all the earth!
    The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved.

    Psalm 93:1
    The Lord reigns, he is robed in majesty;
    the Lord is robed in majesty and armed with strength;
    indeed, the world is established, firm and secure.

    Psalm 96:10
    Say among the nations, "The LORD reigns." The world is firmly established, it cannot be moved; he will judge the peoples with equity.

    Psalm 104:5
    He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved

    Ecclesiastes 1:5
    The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises.

    So because Galileo did not back down on his assertion that the earth couldn't be the center of the solar system, the Church labeled him a heretic, confined him to house arrest for life. And all of his work was banned and burned.

    The Moral?
    There is a HUGE difference between what we may believe the Bible says and what it actually is saying.
     
  11. Cotjones

    Cotjones Junior Member

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    scientific observation is useful in all matters of application of scripture.

    Another example:
    There are hosts of people who claim to be Christians yet also claim to be afflicted by demons.

    Interesting that not ONCE in the Bible was a member of the church possessed by a demon.

    Here is another one: did you know Satan and Lucifer are not the same person? Sure the church refers to Satan as Lucifer. But this is incorrect. Only ONCE in the Bible is the name Lucifer used and it is used to refer to a king of Babylon who fell from power.
     
  12. hwyangel

    hwyangel Newbie

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    My point exactly. The truth is in the message not the messenger, so let's not make it habit of shooting the messenger and instead be as smart as a cow and learn to eat the grass and spit out the sticks.
     
  13. Fenwick

    Fenwick I literally don't care

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    I heard a seminary professor say "there are no new heresies, just old ones dressed up in space suits." I think that's absolutely true, even the nuttiest things that Christians espouse, I'm sure, have come up at some point in the church's 2,000 year history. Only I imagine in some places it was snuffed out more easily than in others.

    I'm not sure if this is your argument, but stating that any level of education equates to "new revelation" in the same vein as Ellen White or Joseph Smith is very much apples and oranges. Education is enriching, whether it be researching string theory, studying 18th century English literature or narrative theology. They're all valuable in different ways and I don't believe learning them has to contradict a life of faith in Christ.

    Those who claim divinely revealed esoteric knowledge are a far cry from an educated individual who disciplines themselves to study their chosen field and devote themselves to the art and craft of academia.

    Sorry if I misread you, it just seemed like there was an association being made that wasn't there...
     
  14. holyrokker

    holyrokker Contributor

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    Ecclesiastes was written in poetic fashion: "...nothing new under the sun" is a figure of speech.

    Rev 22:18 isn't saying that the Bible is sealed up. It's refering specifically to the vision that John was reporting. "Sealed up" is a means of verifying authenticity. John is saying that the vision was authentic.
     
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