Indoctrination or Education?

[Cotjones]

College is INDOCTRINATION? You mean to tell me that analyzing and argument and finding it to be invalid or illogical is evil?

Education doesn't do anything to righteous faith, it only helps us to realize that we as humans are capable of corrupting the truth. If our faith is corrupt, when we assess it we will find corruption.

I find it amusing that after spending a very significant portion of my life in church, someone would claim that I could be persuaded to think a different way after 3 hours a week of lecture for about 4 months.

If that were true, it certainly doesn't speak much for the pastor and Bible does it?

Liberal Arts has nothing to do with democrats, liberal means free. College teaches critical thinking skills which are necessary for one to retain freedom from his peers. It teaches you that just because Billy Mays sells a product, doesn't mean it's guaranteed to work.

 

[thesunisout]

The indoctrination is into secular humanism, which according to the Supreme Court is a religion. Specifically, it is predicated upon naturalistic materialism, or the belief that the Universe is a closed system and there is no transcendent God. It rules out a Creator apriori. If you say this view promotes critical thinking, then you are very confused, because God is the foundation for science and reason. A contingent Universe created by chance has no such foundation, and you cannot reach the conclusion that it does using critical thinking. It is the indoctrination that causes people to reach these conclusions. For science and reason to be possible, it must have unchanging laws, such as the laws of logic. Only in a well ordered Universe do we have unchanging laws of logic. In a chance Universe that is constantly in flux, the only constant is change. There is no guarantee that anything will work the same way it did 10 in the past, 10 seconds into the future. It is only God who upholds the Universe that makes it possible.

No, those who lose their faith over the opinions of fallen men clearly didn't have much faith to begin with. There we agree. That doesn't make it okay to teach lies, does it? Plently of people without a background in religion are learning the same garbage and never knowing the difference. You have a vast respect for these things, and so little respect for scripture, because you have no idea the harm it does to people. You call it critical thinking, but are atheists thinking critically? The majority of educators are secular humanists, and they are teaching our children their faith. You think that's okay, but I don't think you understand the impact it has had on civilizatiion. We've gone from a majority viewpoint in the west from Christian theism (since the days of Rome) to naturalistic materialism because of it. Maybe you think that's good. You tell me.

 

[dies-l]

The indoctrination is into secular humanism, which according to the Supreme Court is a religion. Specifically, it is predicated upon naturalistic materialism, or the belief that the Universe is a closed system and there is no transcendent God. .

In 7 years of post high school education and 13 years of traditional public education, I have never encountered any teacher or professor expressing, endorsing, or otherwise promoting this belief. Sorry, but what you're saying is simply untrue.

 

[Cotjones]

In 7 years of post high school education and 13 years of traditional public education, I have never encountered any teacher or professor expressing, endorsing, or otherwise promoting this belief. Sorry, but what you're saying is simply untrue.

X2 Out of ALL the science and math classes out there I've never once had ANY discussion about anything remotely religious in class. However a private discussion with my genetics professor revealed that she is a Christian. My com studies degree is a different story. The department chair is a christian and plays guitar in an all com studies faculty christian band. I'm in a class now about nuances of Christianity. Over-all i'd say more of the staff is church-going christian than not. I go to a public university.

Let me ask, I don't mean this in a condescending tone, have you been to college sunisout?

 

[Zanting]

Ahhhhh...I don't get why this is even a problem...I have a BSCH, double major...I have indeed been indoctrinated into the sciences of psychology and sociology. I am expected to uphold the laws of morals and ethics laid out by the institute of psychology and psychiatry. And I have a degree that actually states those very words. You need a dictionary...
Now I am indoctrinated in Gods law. Most of what I learned...God threw out...imagine that...what a waste of my life, time and money. That one was a tough one for me. Oh how deceived I was by the ways of this world.

 

[Cotjones]

Ahhhhh...I don't get why this is even a problem...I have a BSCH, double major...I have indeed been indoctrinated into the sciences of psychology and sociology. I am expected to uphold the laws of morals and ethics laid out by the institute of psychology and psychiatry. And I have a degree that actually states those very words. You need a dictionary...
Now I am indoctrinated in Gods law. Most of what I learned...God threw out...imagine that...what a waste of my life, time and money. That one was a tough one for me. Oh how deceived I was by the ways of this world.

lol, wut?


Santorum: Obama wants to 'indoctrinate' students by boosting college enrollment - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

Santorum’s misfire on Obama, colleges and religion - The Washington Post

What have curriculum studies taught you that cannot be verified and that contradicts scripture?

 

[VCViking]

I find it amusing that after spending a very significant portion of my life in church, someone would claim that I could be persuaded to think a different way after 3 hours a week of lecture for about 4 months.

If that were true, it certainly doesn't speak much for the pastor and Bible does it?

It has nothing to do with how long you attended church, your Pastor or the Bible. It has to do with, are you truely saved?

 

[Neogaia777]

College is INDOCTRINATION? You mean to tell me that analyzing and argument and finding it to be invalid or illogical is evil?

Education doesn't do anything to righteous faith, it only helps us to realize that we as humans are capable of corrupting the truth. If our faith is corrupt, when we assess it we will find corruption.

I find it amusing that after spending a very significant portion of my life in church, someone would claim that I could be persuaded to think a different way after 3 hours a week of lecture for about 4 months.

If that were true, it certainly doesn't speak much for the pastor and Bible does it?

Liberal Arts has nothing to do with democrats, liberal means free. College teaches critical thinking skills which are necessary for one to retain freedom from his peers. It teaches you that just because Billy Mays sells a product, doesn't mean it's guaranteed to work.

I thought you meant the stories of the Bible, Indoctrination or Education by superior beings?

 

[Cotjones]

I thought you meant the stories of the Bible, Indoctrination or Education by superior beings?

ummm... what?

 

[Neogaia777]

ummm... what?

You know, if the stories/legends are there to direct us down certain paths, well, they are there to direct us down certain paths. And I was wondering whether or not this was to indoctrinate or educate us, It's probably both.

I believe the stories of genesis and all our "inspired" writings to have been generated by another "higher" race, but as to whether or not they (the higher race, the Gods/spirits) created our stories in order to indoctrinate us, or educate us, I do not know.

 

[Cotjones]

You know, if the stories/legends are there to direct us down certain paths, well, they are there to direct us down certain paths. And I was wondering whether or not this was to indoctrinate or educate us, It's probably both.

I believe the stories of genesis and all our "inspired" writings to have been generated by another "higher" race, but as to whether or not they (the higher race, the Gods/spirits) created our stories in order to indoctrinate us, or educate us, I do not know.

No i'm talking about college. Republicans claim that college is bad.

My view of genesis is that its just the folk tales passed down over thousands of years collected in one place

 

[hwyangel]

We just need to learn how to be as smart as cow. Eat the grass and spit out the sticks.

 

[Cotjones]

We just need to learn how to be as smart as cow. Eat the grass and spit out the sticks.

I reject that theology. If God created us with the potential to do more, we then aught to do more. Plus if it were as clearly defined as sticks and grass there wouldn't be so many denominations now would there?

 

[hwyangel]

Denominations of christianity are not separate beliefs, they separate gifts.

Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 1Cr 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 1Cr 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 1Cr 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 1Cr 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 1Cr 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 1Cr 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another [divers] kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 1Cr 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 1Cr 12:12 ¶ For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ. 1Cr 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 1Cr 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.


And we can discern what is true by comparing it to the truth.

 

[Cotjones]

Denominations of christianity are not separate beliefs, they separate gifts.

Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 1Cr 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 1Cr 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 1Cr 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 1Cr 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 1Cr 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 1Cr 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another [divers] kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 1Cr 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 1Cr 12:12 ¶ For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ. 1Cr 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 1Cr 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.


And we can discern what is true by comparing it to the truth.

If ever I have seen a verse taken out of context, this is it. The gifts in this passage is spiritual gifts. This has nothing to do with denominations which have differentiated themselves based on what they feel is the correct interpretation of the Bible. This deals with the fact that not all men will have the same gifts.

 

[hwyangel]

Can there be any doubt of a spiritual gift when the catholic denomination alone gives over 25% of charity world wide of ALL faiths? That the baptist denomination witnesses to more people with the good word especially children and in third world countries than any other faith in the world? It is the false prophets that would deceive someone into believing a contrary doctrine ........

5 If the foot shall say,Because I am not the hand,I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 16 And if the ear shall say,Because I am not the eye,I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 17 If the whole body were an eye,where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? 18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body,as it hath pleased him. 19 And if they were all one member,where were the body? 20 But now are they many members,yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand,I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet,I have no need of you. ......

 

[Cotjones]

Can there be any doubt of a spiritual gift when the catholic denomination alone gives over 25% of charity world wide of ALL faiths? That the baptist denomination witnesses to more people with the good word especially children and in third world countries than any other faith in the world? It is the false prophets that would deceive someone into believing a contrary doctrine ........

5 If the foot shall say,Because I am not the hand,I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 16 And if the ear shall say,Because I am not the eye,I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 17 If the whole body were an eye,where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? 18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body,as it hath pleased him. 19 And if they were all one member,where were the body? 20 But now are they many members,yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand,I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet,I have no need of you. ......

You aren't making an accurate connection here. Yes it's great that Catholics and every denomination spread the gospel but that's not the same thing these verses are saying. Catholic and different denominations didn't exist yet.
In these times there was only one religion. And 2 groups who followed it. Those of Hebrew descent (Jew) and those of non-Hebrew descent (Gentile). The modern usage of Gentile meaning Christian instead of Jewish, is not the same as the Biblical meaning. In the Bible it was essentially anyone converted from another country. However there are many times Gentile refers to just another country in general and a few examples in the new testament where it refers to pagan religions.

 

[hwyangel]

The term "Body of Christ" reveals the relationship between Christ and the believer. Believers are the "Body" of which Christ is the "Head" (Eph 4:15; Col 1:18).


(Notice in the next verse there is no "separate members" but unity in Christ. And that unity is by faith, not by race, gender, or status. )
Galatians 3:26
There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus.

“we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ” (Eph. 4:13).

We cannot welcome into our circle of fellowship people who deny truths that are essential to the gospel (2 John 7-11); and we cannot embrace people who affirm a gospel Scripture condemns (Gal. 1:18-19). The gospel and all truths essential to it are therefore nonnegotiable points of doctrine, andunity on these matters is a prerequisite to any other kind of unity.

Notice that the diversity is in the "administrations" and "operations".

4 Now there are diversities of gifts,but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations,but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations,but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

A spiritual gift is the God-given capacity of every Christian to carry out his function in the body of Christ. Though we can possess spiritual gifts individually we can not serve in the body of Christ as an individual. This is what denominations are. Separate "operations" and "administration" in the body of Christ.


Romans 16:17 I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

 

[hwyangel]

As a truck driver I attend different churches every week. And it doesn't matter if I'm kneeling in reverent prayer with the catholics,making highlights in my bible with the fundamentalists, shaking the windows loose with the pentecostals or hugging on the baptists, it's still the same bible.

 

[holyrokker]

I've observed that indoctrination is much more common in the Church than education is.