Indoctorination

[jingwei]

Hi. I don't know much about the American military and I would like to know what ideas do the American military teach their soldiers? thank you.

 

[BarbInArk]

Hello. I'm not sure what you mean by "ideas". Have you checked the military websites? You should be able to get answers to any of your questions there.

 

[jingwei]

Sorry about not being clear on the question.
I am asking the amount of discipline U.S. troops receive and how harsh is their training.

I am asking this because I live in Canada. After reading news about the Canadian army soldier's horriblly weak physical conditions I decided not to enlist. only 20 pushups to pass the military requirements? Come on!

I can't find anythign on the web about U.s. training regiment. can anyone show me a link? Appreciate it

 

[rocketboy]

www.military.com

 

[jesuschickseven]

The requirements for getting into the U.S. Army are: (Blue is male / Pink is female) 13 / 3 push-ups, 17 / 17 sit-ups, and run 1 mile in 8:30 / 10:30, but the requirements to graduate bootcamp are higher.

 

[Gracchus]

Soldiers are made, not born. "Basic training" or "boot camp" is to instill the discipline necessary to move troops place to place in an orderly fashion and to expose the recruit to various aspects of military training and testing, so that they may be evaluated and routed to useful military specialities.

One very necessary part of the training is brutalization, because normal human beings cannot kill unless they are properly prepared. Brutalization tears down the civilized personality, so it can be replaced by a personality that will kill or die for no other reason than that a "superior" orders it. This conditioning usually carries over into civilian life, making citizens who conform and obey without question or consideration.

In modern armies much of the killing is done from afar, by bombadiers and cannoneers who never witness the results of their actions, and never have to directly confront the reality that ensues when they slavishly follow orders.

"War is all hell"*, and soldiers are assigned where they are needed. They are not needed in heaven.



*William Tecumseh Sherman

 

[Harlan Norris]

Soldiers are made, not born. "Basic training" or "boot camp" is to instill the discipline necessary to move troops place to place in an orderly fashion and to expose the recruit to various aspects of military training and testing, so that they may be evaluated and routed to useful military specialities.

One very necessary part of the training is brutalization, because normal human beings cannot kill unless they are properly prepared. Brutalization tears down the civilized personality, so it can be replaced by a personality that will kill or die for no other reason than that a "superior" orders it. This conditioning usually carries over into civilian life, making citizens who conform and obey without question or consideration.

In modern armies much of the killing is done from afar, by bombadiers and cannoneers who never witness the results of their actions, and never have to directly confront the reality that ensues when they slavishly follow orders.

"War is all hell"*, and soldiers are assigned where they are needed. They are not needed in heaven.



*William Tecumseh Sherman

Good quote.

 

[PJ24]

Soldiers are made, not born. "Basic training" or "boot camp" is to instill the discipline necessary to move troops place to place in an orderly fashion and to expose the recruit to various aspects of military training and testing, so that they may be evaluated and routed to useful military specialities.

One very necessary part of the training is brutalization, because normal human beings cannot kill unless they are properly prepared. Brutalization tears down the civilized personality, so it can be replaced by a personality that will kill or die for no other reason than that a "superior" orders it. This conditioning usually carries over into civilian life, making citizens who conform and obey without question or consideration.

In modern armies much of the killing is done from afar, by bombadiers and cannoneers who never witness the results of their actions, and never have to directly confront the reality that ensues when they slavishly follow orders.

"War is all hell"*, and soldiers are assigned where they are needed. They are not needed in heaven.



*William Tecumseh Sherman

That is the biggest heap of crap I believe I have seen on this forum. For a so called "Christian" you certainly do spend quite a bit of your time judging. Forget to read your bible there hot shot? Or is being a hypocrite part of Christianity now?

There are only two things I got out of your post:
A) you NEVER served in the US military
and
B) You are not a Christian.

Have a good day.

 

[justanobserver]

That is the biggest heap of crap I believe I have seen on this forum. For a so called "Christian" you certainly do spend quite a bit of your time judging. Forget to read your bible there hot shot? Or is being a hypocrite part of Christianity now?

There are only two things I got out of your post:
A) you NEVER served in the US military
and
B) You are not a Christian.

Have a good day.

actually, I believe according to his faith icon he is buddhist.

 

[Gracchus]

That is the biggest heap of crap I believe I have seen on this forum.

You haven't seen much.

For a so called "Christian" you certainly do spend quite a bit of your time judging.

First: I am not a Christian. I can't stand the stink.

Second: I observe, consider and draw conclusions. I leave judgement to to the Lord.

Forget to read your bible there hot shot?

I have not only read it, I have studied it. I passed two college courses on the bible, one on the "Old Testament" and one on the "New Testament".

Or is being a hypocrite part of Christianity now?

For the last fifteen hundred years it has pretty much been a pre-requisite.

I consider the epithet "Christian" to be an insult.

There are only two things I got out of your post:
A) you NEVER served in the US military

Actually, I spent six years in the army. So you didn't get it out of my post. I can only guess where you actually got it.

and
B) You are not a Christian.

You could have gotten that much by a glance at the icon under my handle.

Have a good day.

I hope you have better ones than you had today.

 

[PJ24]

Second: I observe, consider and draw conclusions. I leave judgement to to the Lord.

Ah, so critical and logical thinking aren't amongst your strengths. Your previous post indicates you do not leave judgement to the Lord, unless you believe yourself to be the Lord.

I also must warn you, I'm not impressed with your claimed degree of study or your pseudo-intellectualism.

Actually, I spent six years in the army. So you didn't get it out of my post. I can only guess where you actually got it.

Sorry, but I think you're a liar on that one. Your comments concerning military training and the military mindset are too off base for me to believe you've served even a day in the military, esp in the Army where discipline is not the main driving force as it would be in the Marine Corps.


Hugs & Kisses.

 

[Gracchus]

Ah, so critical and logical thinking aren't amongst your strengths.

The army thought that they were, which is probably why part of my first hitch was spent in an experimental tac-nuke unit, and my second hitch I served as an instructor at the U. S. Army Security Agency Training Center and School at Ft. Devens, Mass.

Your previous post indicates you do not leave judgement to the Lord, unless you believe yourself to be the Lord.

I can decide what is moral without condemning those engaged in immoral behavior. I don't see that I am judging when I point out that long distance killing does not require as much brutalization as, for instance, bayonet fighting.

I also must warn you, I'm not impressed with your claimed degree of study or your pseudo-intellectualism.

My my! I will consider myself warned. I will observe, however, that I am unconcerned about my reputation among shell-less gastropod molluscs.

Sorry, but I think you're a liar on that one.

Which is libel if you can't prove it. (And just a wee bit judgmental?)

Your comments concerning military training and the military mindset are too off base for me to believe you've served even a day in the military, esp in the Army where discipline is not the main driving force as it would be in the Marine Corps.

My thought processes are obviously based much differently than yours.

Hugs & Kisses.

Am I to take it you are gay? I don't really care, and I don't think it's relevant. From your intemperate and hostile remarks, would guess you were in the military and never got over their all too successful attempts to cripple your mentation. You might want to get psychiatric help.

In any case, we have wandered far from the topic and the forum guidelines.

 

[Clodpate]

Soldiers are made, not born. "Basic training" or "boot camp" is to instill the discipline necessary to move troops place to place in an orderly fashion and to expose the recruit to various aspects of military training and testing, so that they may be evaluated and routed to useful military specialities.

So far so good.

One very necessary part of the training is brutalization, because normal human beings cannot kill unless they are properly prepared.

Human beings have, do and will continue to kill each other without any kind of training. It's part of our nature. I think it's absurd to think that unless someone joins the military or any other similiar organization, they simply are inable to kill another human being.

Brutalization tears down the civilized personality, so it can be replaced by a personality that will kill or die for no other reason than that a "superior" orders it.

This happens, to a certian point. The military does try to prepare you for the sensations of shooting at human targets, and getting shot at.

However, the idea of mindless storm troopers is really just a myth. As a former line dog in a airborne rifle company. You are taught to think with a tactical mindset, to reduce casualities, etc. No one points at a hill and says "CHARGE" and we all just run at it with K-BARs and M-4s.

This conditioning usually carries over into civilian life, making citizens who conform and obey without question or consideration.

To be honest, I have never experinced that. I nor my friends wre like that when we left boot. Infact, the exact opposite tends to happen. I don't even think I have met former military personal who act like that.

 

[Clodpate]

The army thought that they were, which is probably why part of my first hitch was spent in an experimental tac-nuke unit, and my second hitch I served as an instructor at the U. S. Army Security Agency Training Center and School at Ft. Devens, Mass.

To be honest, I never had heard of the U.S Army Security Agency Training Center and School. I tried looking it up via DOD websites and Army sites, and found zilch. Google turned up a few scant traces, that go back to the 50s and 60s.

So I imagine, the Army you were in and the Army of today, are two very different organizations.

 

[Gracchus]

I haven't kept up. It well may be that the NSA (formerly, No Such Agency) having been outed, and with far more technically advanced methods, no longer has military branches such as the ASA (Army Security Agency), NSG (Naval Security Group), or the AFSS (Air Force Security Service).

 

[Clodpate]

I haven't kept up. It well may be that the NSA (formerly, No Such Agency) having been outed, and with far more technically advanced methods, no longer has military branches such as the ASA (Army Security Agency), NSG (Naval Security Group), or the AFSS (Air Force Security Service).

I do believe those are the Predasessors to today's SOCOM ( Special Operations Command ), that SEALs, Special Forces Command, ODAs (Other Department Agencies) like the D-Boys and CIA Agents, all work under.

 

[3girls2dogs]

To be honest, I never had heard of the U.S Army Security Agency Training Center and School. I tried looking it up via DOD websites and Army sites, and found zilch. Google turned up a few scant traces, that go back to the 50s and 60s.

So I imagine, the Army you were in and the Army of today, are two very different organizations.

Ft. Devens has actually been closed for quite a while.

Here is the info on its closure: http://www.devens.army.mil/Devens_Staff/BRAC/History.htm

On another point, however, the assumption that all military men are just trained, mindless killers is just plain wrong. I won't even go into the many ways that it is wrong, because I don't have that kind of time, nor do I have the inclination to play to the attempted shock value of Gracchus' post.

 

[Gracchus]

Ft. Devens has actually been closed for quite a while.

Here is the info on its closure: http://www.devens.army.mil/Devens_Staff/BRAC/History.htm

On another point, however, the assumption that all military men are just trained, mindless killers is just plain wrong. I won't even go into the many ways that it is wrong, because I don't have that kind of time, nor do I have the inclination to play to the attempted shock value of Gracchus' post.

Of course not all military men are killers, and certainly the military does not want mindless killers. In modern armies most of the killing is long-distance and impersonal. And psychological testing can accurately pick out those with the killer instinct, and assign them the proper training.

But "boot camp" with its harrassment, and sleep deprivation is a classic example of brain-washing technique. NCO's depersonalize the enemies as "slopes", "*****", "rag-heads", etc, and subordinates must emulate them or accept silently.

After all the massacres, in all the wars, only a moron would be shocked that military training is designed to facilitate killing. We used to joke, when I was a soldier, that we were "paid, professional killers", and it was funny because we were.

In the early Christian community, soldiers could not be Christians. Now Christianity serves the state, and the pietistic think nothing of swearing to kill without question those they are told to kill. Bombs and shells fall, and the dead innocents are dismissed as "collateral damage". What was terrible has become banal.

 

[Gracchus]

Ft. Devens has actually been closed for quite a while.

Here is the info on its closure: http://www.devens.army.mil/Devens_Staff/BRAC/History.htm

On another point, however, the assumption that all military men are just trained, mindless killers is just plain wrong. I won't even go into the many ways that it is wrong, because I don't have that kind of time, nor do I have the inclination to play to the attempted shock value of Gracchus' post.

Of course not all military men are killers, and certainly the military does not want mindless killers. In modern armies most of the killing is long-distance and impersonal. And psychological testing can accurately pick out those with the killer instinct, and assign them the proper training.

But "boot camp" with its harrassment, and sleep deprivation is a classic example of brain-washing technique. NCO's depersonalize the enemies as "slopes", "ghuks", "rag-heads", etc, and subordinates must emulate them or accept silently.

After all the massacres, in all the wars, only a moron would be shocked that military training is designed to facilitate killing. We used to joke, when I was a soldier, that we were "paid, professional killers", and it was funny because we were.

In the early Christian community, soldiers could not be Christians. Now Christianity serves the state, and the pietistic think nothing of swearing to kill without question those they are told to kill. Bombs and shells fall, and the dead innocents are dismissed as "collateral damage". What was terrible has become banal.

 

[justanobserver]

But "boot camp" with its harrassment, and sleep deprivation is a classic example of brain-washing technique. NCO's depersonalize the enemies as "slopes", "ghuks", "rag-heads", etc, and subordinates must emulate them or accept silently.

I understand all to well what happens during boot camp, as having gone thru Marine basic at MCRD San Diego long long ago. Been there, done that and got the Fire Watch ribbon to prove it.

BUT what I am curious about is why when you expressed your views about trained killers, you felt the need to use the racial slurs you just did. My younger kids are amerasian and its rather insultive to read on a forum such as this. Would appreciate it if you would delete the racial comments

I know as well as you obviously and will assume most other veterans the language and words used by members of the US military but to get one's point across on a different subject, racial slurs doesnt need to be used as a tool to prove that unrelated point.

thank you.