India

[kurabrhm]

Well China is the political partner of pakistan and seems to hate India's guts. Perhaps I can understand why that is! But the thing is China is so geographically far removed from the Kashmir conflict that even in today's technological age, the geographic gap between the two giants is still pretty remarkable. One can dream that China will sort out the problem but I think it hardly translates to reality! China being a huge nation has its own problems like Taiwan for example. More recently, it has had the trouble with SARS. But Taiwan is definitely the more contentious issue in political terms. undefinedundefined

 

[TheRealityOfMan]

Made in Taiwan.

 

[kurabrhm]

Made in Taiwan.

OK, I admit, "Made In Taiwan" is an appropriate response to my comments on the relationship between China and India with pak on the side. But surely that's making a mockery of Taiwan and the Chinese people in general if you just view their problems through the prism of modern day commercialism.

 

[Key Of David]

This is a gross oversimplification of history.

I couldn't have said it better.

 

[kurabrhm]

Surely, one can settle the Indo Pak conflict once and for all if the two nations decide to ditch their differences and call for a subcontinent wide referendum on whether Pakistan and India should join together as one nation. The two nations already share the same currency, why not also share the same land? In this day of economical competetion it is surely better to forget land conflict in the name of religion and instead co-operate for the sake of economic betterment.

 

[Proud Hindu]

Sadly, that is nearly impossible now. nationalistic feelings run high in both countries. I agree that would be the best thing for both countries, if they could reunite. If they weren't so busy trying to annihilate one another, they could easily be a world power.

 

[jidujiao]

Caste system was never part of the Hindu religion, it is condemned in all our Holy Scriptures. There was a division of labor system, but it was minor, and people were not discriminated against.

The four varnas are quite explicitly laid out by the laws of Manu. Hindu scripture describes them as having been in place from the beginning of mankind.

1. The great sages approached Manu, who was seated with a collected mind, and, having duly worshipped him, spoke as follows:
2. 'Deign, divine one, to declare to us precisely and in due order the sacred laws of each of the (four chief) castes (varna) and of the intermediate ones.
...
87. But in order to protect this universe He, the most resplendent one, assigned separate (duties and) occupations to those who sprang from his mouth, arms, thighs, and feet.
88. To Brahmanas he assigned teaching and studying (the Veda), sacrificing for their own benefit and for others, giving and accepting (of alms).
89. The Kshatriya he commanded to protect the people, to bestow gifts, to offer sacrifices, to study (the Veda), and to abstain from attaching himself to sensual pleasures;
90. The Vaisya to tend cattle, to bestow gifts, to offer sacrifices, to study (the Veda), to trade, to lend money, and to cultivate land.
91. One occupation only the lord prescribed to the Sudra, to serve meekly even these (other) three castes.
...
93. As the Brahmana sprang from (Brahman's) mouth, as he was the first-born, and as he possesses the Veda, he is by right the lord of this whole creation
...
99. A Brahmana, coming into existence, is born as the highest on earth, the lord of all created beings, for the protection of the treasury of the law.
100. Whatever exists in the world is, the property of the Brahmana; on account of the excellence of his origin The Brahmana is, indeed, entitled to all.
101. The Brahmana eats but his own food, wears but his own apparel, bestows but his own in alms; other mortals subsist through the benevolence of the Brahmana.

But yes, I do agree that the caste system as it exists today is not laid out as such in the Laws of Manu. But the castes are certainly in the scripture, and I'd not want to be a Sudra even in the ancient time in which the Laws of Manu were written. It seems to me that even an expanded caste system wouldn't be a problem, though. According to Hinduism , if you are born as a Dalit it's because you deserve to be, right? If my understanding of karma is way off base here, please help me out.

My friend, I respect your beliefs, but do you really consider it good news if one life is all we get?

Yes, and unless I have completely misunderstood Hinduism, it'd be good news for Hindus, too. The goal of a good Hindu is moksha, is it not? The whole point of existence is to escape the wheel of Samsara, to end the cycle of rebirths. Again, if my understanding is off, please help me out.

Just some thoughts that occurred to me as I was reading your posts.

 

[kurabrhm]

Sadly, that is nearly impossible now. nationalistic feelings run high in both countries. I agree that would be the best thing for both countries, if they could reunite. If they weren't so busy trying to annihilate one another, they could easily be a world power.

Yes I know, but one shouldn't give up hope that at some point in the future there will be the right kind of political atmosphere on both sides that wil be conductive to the beginnings of a real peace process. Military de-escalation really needs to happen and for that to happen the political community on both sides need to be willing to do that. But of course neither side at the moment are willing to take that risk.

My suspicions are that the presence of Indian forces in the Kashmir region are actually provoking the hard line extremists in Pakistan to take action into their own hands. If there wasn't a military conflict or even a stalemate I doubt very much whether the terrorists would carry on with their job.

 

[Warrior Monk]

all Christians were able to do was turn India into a colony

This thread is racist, antichristian, and Satanic. Reported to moderators.

 

[jidujiao]

Warrior Monk:

One can dream that China will sort out the problem but I think it hardly translates to reality!

kurabrhm, you're absolutely correct on this one. China has absolutely no desire to be the policeman for the world or even Asia. It's with great reluctance and a lot of pressure from the international community that China has participated in the talks with North Korea about their nuclear program. With Tibet and Xinjiang as buffers on the west, China will feel little need to do anything to intervene in the India-Pakistan situation.

I don't, however, believe that China's stance has much, if anything, to do with the Taiwan issue other than demonstrating to the world that China does not interfere with the affairs of other nations and so other nations should not interfere with China as regards Taiwan. If the Taiwan issue were resolved tomorrow, China would still stay out of the India-Pakistan conflict.

 

[TheRealityOfMan]

Maybe Russia should invade the whole area?

 

[kurabrhm]

To - the reality of man,

If you were speaking in the 19th century when Britain still controlled India then perhaps there was the possibility then that Russia could have invaded "the whole area". During the 19th century Russia, like most European powers, had a grudge against the vast British Empire. One of the ways to resolve that grudge would be to invade the subcontinent since that obvioulsy was the centrepiece of the British empire. Russia probably had the means to do this since it was expanding at a rather rapid rate towards Asia during the 19th century and it was threatening to come via the overland route into the subcontinent. The overland route was much more difficult for the British to secure from foreign invaders than the sea routes. Especially the North West frontier from which it was likely that the Russians could come was and still is very difficult terrain to guard against aliens.
Of course, whether Russia actually had any strong incentive to invade the subcontinent is a different matter altogether.
Today, Russia does hold "strings" on India through the weapons programme. In other words, India is dependent in some ways on Russia to get weapons and so keep the conflict between Pakistan and India going.

 

[kurabrhm]

Warrior Monk:




kurabrhm, you're absolutely correct on this one. China has absolutely no desire to be the policeman for the world or even Asia. It's with great reluctance and a lot of pressure from the international community that China has participated in the talks with North Korea about their nuclear program. With Tibet and Xinjiang as buffers on the west, China will feel little need to do anything to intervene in the India-Pakistan situation.

I don't, however, believe that China's stance has much, if anything, to do with the Taiwan issue other than demonstrating to the world that China does not interfere with the affairs of other nations and so other nations should not interfere with China as regards Taiwan. If the Taiwan issue were resolved tomorrow, China would still stay out of the India-Pakistan conflict.

Yes, I agree with you on the issue of Tibet. It does act as a very important geographic buffer between India and China. However, the fact that China actually once invaded Tibet and still controls it is rather worrying from an Indian perspective at least. I ask you this, what were the real reasons why China invaded Tibet? Tibet has survived for centuries as an autonomous country living relatively peaceful Buddhist lives.

 

[TheRealityOfMan]

Maybe they wanted to control the production and supply of the delicious Tsampa. Then again, maybe they wanted to take go down and take pictures of the Migou (the Yeti).

 

[kurabrhm]

Maybe they wanted to control the production and supply of the delicious Tsampa. Then again, maybe they wanted to take go down and take pictures of the Migou (the Yeti).

Firstly, what exactly is "Tsampa" and what makes it so delicious?
Secondly, in what context are you talking about the Yeti?

Thirdly, there is no clear reason why the Russians expressed a wish to invade the subcontinent, that is if they really did express a wish to do so in the first place!
I think it was probably in reality a falsity generated by the British Raj in order to justify their policy of keeping the North West frontier in check.
Or perhaps it was something generated by pro British Raj historians who wish to express the might of the British Empire by arguing that another great empire like Russia had an interest in invading the subcontinent, therefore increasing the powerful image of the British Raj as a vast and secure empire from foreign invaders.

 

[TheRealityOfMan]

Read Kim by Rudyard Kipling. It proves that all Russians are sinister and very, very evil. Them and the Chinese.

 

[jameseb]

Why is it that Muslims and Islam were able to liberate many Indians from the caste system, while all Christians were able to do was turn India into a colony?

Are you even going to bother to respond to the Hindu poster here, or did it catch you off guard?



~J

 

[TheRealityOfMan]

Maybe because they were colonists.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

It was not untill America was founded that Christians sought a place to settle and worship God in the way they thought was right.

Of course those pious americans worshipped God in the way they thought was right by killing the american natives and sending the sad remnants to infertile wastelands called "reservations" in order to gain access to ressources and land. It had nothing to do with greed or profit. They just wanted to save the poor Indians' souls!

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Read Kim by Rudyard Kipling. It proves that all Russians are sinister and very, very evil. Them and the Chinese.

Rudyard Kipling coined the saying: "The white man's burden." He really believed that it was England's holy mission to "enlighten" the "savages". Pathetic. Reeeeally pathetic.