Increasing numbers of eye witnesses and victims say multiple shooters - why not allow their stories?

[AirPo]

Haven't really looked into this one, but there was video footage to support multiple shooters.
Wasn't there?

No.

 

[TheBear]

An ISIS motivated attack, under Trump's watch, must not be revealed to the public. It might not bode well for the presidency.....

 

[rambot]

It wasn't a hoax, but possibly a false flag.

If nobody has claimed responsibility; and if no motive for the shooter has been established, how in the heck can it be a "false flag"? No "flag" was raised to begin with?
At this point, we need to see a "flag" first.

 

[Vylo]

Right, they can get rid of any bodies at the Tropicana without trace, but cannot build a simple sound filter to autoblock videos.

Why is it that the people in these conspiracy theories alternate between super genius and cretin?

The problem with most conspiracy theories is that they get to wild and complicated. Each moving part or person involved exponentially decreases the chance of getting away with such a plot. The irony of them is there are often such more simple conspiracy theories that are much more viable, simply because they aren't overly complicated to the point where they become infeasible.

For example, take 9/11. Could our government allowed it to happen to be used as a false flag attack? That's believable at least to some degree. Did the government itself do the attack? Less believable. You have to have X number of government agents willing to conspire against their own country men with no leaks of the plot, and the accused have to not deny committing the act. That there was no plane, "can't melt steel beams!!1", etc. No. You are way to far down the rabbit hole here. There is simply no feasible way this could have been pulled off. No.

 

[Divide]

If nobody has claimed responsibility; and if no motive for the shooter has been established, how in the heck can it be a "false flag"? No "flag" was raised to begin with?
At this point, we need to see a "flag" first.

Huh? Do you know what a false flag operation is?

 

[rambot]

Please explain and then help me to understand how this could possibly be a false flag.

I'm not facetious; I really wanna know.

 

[dgiharris]

People who have experienced trauma often don't understand what they saw / experienced; it's a complicated picture, and memories can easily be fooled with. There was a case where a therapist was even able to convince someone that they were molested as a child (when they were not).

Witnesses and their views just aren't reliable in inherently confusing and traumatic incidents like the LV shooting.

One of the interesting things about being human is if you ask someone "do you think human memory is reliable?" the vast majority of people will say no. However, ask those same people if they think their memory is reliable, and the vast majority of people will say YES.

Unless you have training or education in the area of psychology or experience dealing with humans and their shotty memories you just will not understand nor believe how horrid your memory can be.

I was unwittingly part of a psychology experiment. A professor was teaching class when someone busted into class and grabbed her purse and ran out the door (this is a very common psyche 101 class experiment). Our class had around 20 people in it and we broke up into 5 groups and each group was tasked to describe the thief.

All 5 descriptions were inaccurate. I recall vividly the guy having certain features but then when he walked back into the room I was confronted by how wrong I was... It was a very eye opening experience. Our descriptions morphed and affected our memories until we reached a consensus...

THe Las Vegas shootings would have been like the above but times 100. It would have been chaotic and terrifying and easily prone to memory bias.

 

[Tanj]

An ISIS motivated attack, under Trump's watch, must not be revealed to the public. It might not bode well for the presidency.....

Was this said in jest? It's hard to tell. an ISIS attack under Trump's watch would be the best thing his presidency could get.

Huh? Do you know what a false flag operation is?

Sure, it's an act perpetrated by one side of a conflict framed to look like the other side did it for some material gain. An example would be the US government being responsible for 9/11, but making it look like radical Islamics did it to justify going to war.

In this case we have unknown group who framed some old white guy for no apparent reason.

 

[rawo]

I agree it is spitting on victims who happen to have a different story to bury everything that doesn't match the official story under conspiracy theory. They are victims just the same as any of them. They deserve to have their say.

These witnesses say most emergency exits were blocked, making it into a kill zone and contrary to all fire code, which is strictly enforced. Maybe one exit might have a catering cart in the way but MOST OF THEM BLOCKED? One of these witnesses was wounded in the hip and was interviewed by CNN, so no one has to worry he is "fake." I put up a thread on this a little while ago but it was deleted COMPLETELY, not even moved to conspiracy theory.

Witnesses: Exits at Las Vegas Concert Were Suddenly Blocked Prior to Shooting, Creating Kill Zone

Witnesses: Exits at Las Vegas Concert Were Suddenly Blocked Prior to Shooting, Creating Kill Zone

Witnesses at last week's Las Vegas shooting, including one who was wounded, are saying that many emergency exits which would normally be open as required by strict laws on emergency egress at concert venues, were suddenly blocked by chain link fence on the night of the shooting, even though they were open on previous concert nights . One witness, Rocky Palermo, who was wounded in the pelvis, said that at 10 pm all exits on Las Vegas Boulevard where blocked with chain link fencing. Eight minutes later, the shooting started.

Palermo, who had been previously been interviewed by CNN about his injuries, said:

"Every other night at the concert, everybody kind of exited out of Las Vegas Boulevard, that was standard, that was routine to get out of the concert and go down and go to the next casino. Well at ten o'clock they closed every exit on Las Vegas Boulevard, every single one, they gated them all closed with chain link fences. Ten o'eight the shooting started and...we were pigs sitting in a coral, we only had one exit to go out of. The same exits we came in and left Friday and Saturday night were definitely closed. There were people who went over there and trying to leave and there were cops telling them, no you have to go the other way..." (at 1:37 in video)

Russell Black told Fox News:

"We were pretty much in a kill box where...there were about ten, twelve foot walls surrounding the entire vicinity so there was only one way in and out." (at 2:00 in video)

Emergency egress rules at concert venues are well-defined and strictly enforced in all states, with even a partially, accidentally blocked exit able to bring down fines of tens of thousands of dollars on a venue owner. Before any concert can start, a fire marshal must perform a walk-through of the venue, checking specifically for obstructed exits. Once the inspection is in compliance, the fire marshal issues a certificate of occupancy. Without this certificate no show can begin. Exits must be clearly marked with illuminated exit signs.

In yet another interview with Fox, Black said:

"I keep bringing up the fencing, the fencing was the scariest part, they made it a point to make sure no one could enter the facility you know, with fake tickets, sneaking but, but by doing that it made us not able to get out..." (at 4:00 in video of interview.)

Black apparently misunderstands the laws on emergency egress, which can never be blocked. Concert staff may allow people to leave a venue through smaller exits and then require them to re-enter through a main entrance.

There is no mention in any mainstream news coverage of illegally blocked exits, nor of witnesses who describe, in great detail, shooting coming from multiple directions. In one video taken by a taxi driver near the concert, the driver can be heard saying "people are coming over the fences" as mass panic ensued. In the video automatic fire can be heard coming from two very different locations, one very close to the driver, and another some distance away, different in duration, and too long after the nearby burst to possibly be an echo. Witnesses: Exits at Las Vegas Concert Were Suddenly Blocked Prior to Shooting, Creating Kill Zone

 

[rambot]

As everyone who has paid to attend a music festival will attest, the one thing music festival organizers want is uncontrolled entry into their festival. That way they can laugh at all the suckers who paid for tickets.

 

[Divide]

Was this said in jest? It's hard to tell. an ISIS attack under Trump's watch would be the best thing his presidency could get.



Sure, it's an act perpetrated by one side of a conflict framed to look like the other side did it for some material gain. An example would be the US government being responsible for 9/11, but making it look like radical Islamics did it to justify going to war.

In this case we have unknown group who framed some old white guy for no apparent reason.

I think they're trying to start a civil war. Or at least create situations which call for increased gun control and fewer rights.

Divide and conquer.

 

[AirPo]

I think they're trying to start a civil war. Or at least create situations which call for increased gun control and fewer rights.

Divide and conquer.

How much do they pay Russian troll farm workers?

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

This thread was moved from New & Current Events forum. That forum requires links to credible news sources in the OP.

 

[Divide]

How much do they pay Russian troll farm workers?

I don't know. I'm not sure what you're asking, or if you're insinuating that I'm trolling...??

 

[rambot]

Thank you mods!!!!!

 

[Tanj]

I think they're trying to start a civil war. Or at least create situations which call for increased gun control and fewer rights.

Divide and conquer.

Sorry mate, could you clarify which particular "Theys" are you talking about? Then explain why they, or indeed anyone, would want a civil war.

Could you then explain how any kind of mass shooting whilst there is a republican controlled house, senate and precidency could in anyway whatsoever result in increased gun control? I mean seriously, your country did nothing when a bunch of children were killed at a school with democrats in some kind of power. You'd have to be completely delusional to think this event would result in gun control legislation in this environment.

 

[Divide]

Sorry mate, could you clarify which particular "Theys" are you talking about? Then explain why they, or indeed anyone, would want a civil war.

Could you then explain how any kind of mass shooting whilst there is a republican controlled house, senate and precidency could in anyway whatsoever result in increased gun control? I mean seriously, your country did nothing when a bunch of children were killed at a school with democrats in some kind of power. You'd have to be completely delusional to think this event would result in gun control legislation in this environment.

Not really brother. I was just talking and don't really have an interest in taking political stances or debating views or mindsets...Maybe we're on different pages and I don't really want to defend my views or something I said as if I'm called on the carpet or something. I'd rather not. It would probably provoke you and I have no interest in that.

 

[rambot]

Not really brother. I was just talking and don't really have an interest in taking political stances or debating views or mindsets...Maybe we're on different pages and I don't really want to defend my views or something I said as if I'm called on the carpet or something. I'd rather not. It would probably provoke you and I have no interest in that.

Shenanigans!
Yes you do. You were labelling this a false flag operation...or suggesting it COULD be when there is still no known motive or group taking responsibility.

Problem is that this conspiracy theory is weak and lacking evidence (forget about convincing evidence). Don't keep stock in this one.

 

[Divide]

Shenanigans!
Yes you do. You were labelling this a false flag operation...or suggesting it COULD be when there is still no known motive or group taking responsibility.

Problem is that this conspiracy theory is weak and lacking evidence (forget about convincing evidence). Don't keep stock in this one.

Sure I was, and yeah I was just talking. Weak conspiracy theory huh? ...That's ok. The gubmint will take care of you. They're all telling the truth. They care about you. Bwahahaha.

Look man we're not talking about doctrine here. So I'm not gonna play that game of explain yourself. Call me the bad guy if you want but I have no need to argue with people who don't agree on this. So call me a couple names and move on. Go hug your gubmint. People don't act like that. Drug dealers do. Innercity robbers and stuff. Americans don't go on vacation to vegas to shoot up the town. If you cant see that then...wow.

 

[Rick Otto]

Just saw a video with footage of fire from a helicopter there.