Incense

[Philothei]

Also the Magi gave incense... to Christ at his birth... I wonder why? Too bad they did not know that they should not have...

 

[Fireinfolding]

I believe the Magi ought to have offered him incense, Christ was born into this world and likewise is Christ formed in us, by which we offer incense to His name. Though I regard the true as the prayer.

 

[Philothei]

I believe the Magi ought to have offered him incense, Christ was born into this world and likewise is Christ formed in us, by which we offer incense to His name. Though I regard the true as the prayer.

Yes the connotation and the illustration is correct! Incense is just a material thingy we lit to reminds us the spritual dimension of this action. I totally agree FF

I found this source that puts things into the right perspective. There was an opposition and a suspicion to incense by the first Church. Some like Hyppolitus and Justin the martyr and some others did shy away from its usage for the 'identification" with the temple worship and the pagan worship namely the Emperor's 'fumegation" lol...

But by the end of the 3rd centure esp. with JC the practice was well established.
In the earlier era (catacombs and Christian persecution) it was used for fumigation reasons as the relics of the martyrs were indeed a bit too much to bear Also Christians used it for individual use at home while prayer. After Constantine is when the "hang up" on the Emperor/pagan connection died and the Church used it again. That is what I gathered from this book:
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Again though the "practice" of the early Church was not a canon that forbit its usage. As the Chrisitan community/church matured realized IMHO that the usage was not 'dangerous' spiritually for the faithful. If such practice was dangerous I think Christ would have forbit it... He did not nowhere we find words from His mouth that say that icons or statues or in this case incense is forbitten.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Yes the connotation and the illustration is correct! Incense is just a material thingy we lit to reminds us the spritual dimension of this action. I totally agree FF

I found this source that puts things into the right perspective. There was an opposition and a suspicion to incense by the first Church. Some like Hyppolitus and Justin the martyr and some others did shy away from its usage for the 'identification" with the temple worship and the pagan worship namely the Emperor's 'fumegation" lol...

But by the end of the 3rd centure esp. with JC the practice was well established.
In the earlier era (catacombs and Christian persecution) it was used for fumigation reasons as the relics of the martyrs were indeed a bit too much to bear Also Christians used it for individual use at home while prayer. After Constantine is when the "hang up" on the Emperor/pagan connection died and the Church used it again. That is what I gathered from this book:
Powered by Google Docs


Again though the "practice" of the early Church was not a canon that forbit its usage. As the Chrisitan community/church matured realized IMHO that the usage was not 'dangerous' spiritually for the faithful. If such practice was dangerous I think Christ would have forbit it... He did not nowhere we find words from His mouth that say that icons or statues or in this case incense is forbitten.

Check your link Philothei, I got...
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The requested URL was not found on this server.

And yall, can ya offer up some incense for me at the moment (not the stuff you burn) I am having a problem with my vision, it keeps coming and going (yes weird) I honestly could not focus in on any single word Philothei just posted to me momentarily (and even after copying it and blowing it up for myself). I keep getting bouts of this, sorta freaky (like seeing ice crystals I cant see through) so... since we are talking bout incense, could you send some up here? I'd rather have prayer over a doc (so if anyone thinks about it...?)

Thanks, God bless you

 

[Fireinfolding]

Praise God! That was FAST, who prayed?

I can see now

Thanks whoever was praying, God bless you

 

[Philothei]

Okie FF No problem will lift you up in prayer

And you can goolge in google doc David Brattston "incense in Ante-Nicene Christianity" I clicked on the link just right now and it opened. I cannot copy and paste any as it won't allow you to do that. And please if this situation with your eye-sight insists visit a physician

Lord have mercy!

 

[Fireinfolding]

Thanks Philothei will do sis

 

[brinny]

Praise God! That was FAST, who prayed?

I can see now

Thanks whoever was praying, God bless you

LOL! Praise God!!!

i just gotta add a wooo hooooo!! here

 

[Fireinfolding]

LOL! Praise God!!!

i just gotta add a wooo hooooo!! here

Thanks sis, I know you were praying too (hugs) Thank God. It comes and goes with me sis (I become blinded) and then (a few minutes later) I can see again (and even better then ever)... but then "that" receeds back again to my norm...Well, my eyes sure arent the best. And I wont lie, I have somewhat of a care of being blinded completely, its sorta a scary feeling (to me). I get afraid when it happens, and sit there wondering if (this time) it wont return again (everytime). It has again,

So thanks again sis, its all good at the moment (praise the Lord, yes!)

 

[ProScribe]

I use it occassionally when saying prayers at home.

 

[Adam Warlock]

Thanks sis, I know you were praying too (hugs) Thank God. It comes and goes with me sis (I become blinded) and then (a few minutes later) I can see again (and even better then ever)... but then "that" receeds back again to my norm...Well, my eyes sure arent the best. And I wont lie, I have somewhat of a care of being blinded completely, its sorta a scary feeling (to me). I get afraid when it happens, and sit there wondering if (this time) it wont return again (everytime). It has again,

So thanks again sis, its all good at the moment (praise the Lord, yes!)

I was reading this thread and just stumbled across this! I will pray that whatever you were supposed to learn from this mess has been learned and that it will never happen again. That is scary stuff, sister. May the Lord be with you and grant you renewed eyesight!

And as far as the question about incense...I don't use it at home, although I've thought about it. A church that I formerly attended will use it in worship, and I thought it was really cool! My current one does not, but I'm hoping that they'll start. It adds a lot...I don't know why, but it does!

 

[Fireinfolding]

Thank you Adam, very much appreciated brother, God bless you

 

[brinny]

So what does it mean that they "do not exist" ? They do exist and practiced. St. J either lied or we indeed mistraslating him.

He is not speaking literally. for sure; or he would forbit incense But you can go ahead and believe that he still did not use insence in his services I know he did!!


Meanwhile from Psalms we have this prayer:


‪Let My Prayer Rise‬‏ - YouTube

Beautiful!!!

 

[simonthezealot]

Perhaps we should ask Simon to explain our liturgy to us.

Forgive me...

Perhaps you could just provide the link i requested that shows the writing by St. J advocating incense in worship any longer.

So what does it mean that they "do not exist" ? They do exist and practiced. St. J either lied or we indeed mistraslating him.

He is not speaking literally. for sure; or he would forbit incense But you can go ahead and believe that he still did not use insence in his services I know he did!!

No you don't.
Also YES you are mistranslating him.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Perhaps you could just provide the link i requested that shows the writing by St. J advocating incense in worship any longer.

Do you know what rubrics are?

Are you really familiar with the liturgy of St. John Chrysostom? I think not.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Hey Simon,

You wouldn't be reading Robert Taft on the subject would you?

The liturgy of the hours in East and West: the origins of the divine office ... By Robert F. Taft

The liturgy of the hours in East and ... - Google Books

I'll tell you now that he does not know what he's talking about when he questions Chrysostom's use of incense.

Forgive me...

 

[simonthezealot]

O B F U S C A T I O N ! ! !

 

[simonthezealot]

Hey Simon,

You wouldn't be reading Robert Taft on the subject would you?

The liturgy of the hours in East and West: the origins of the divine office ... By Robert F. Taft

The liturgy of the hours in East and ... - Google Books

I'll tell you now that he does not know what he's talking about when he questions Chrysostom's use of incense.

Forgive me...

Never heard of him.
Thanks for the link though..

 

[Philothei]

Simon it is up to you to show that CJ stoped using incense you are the one who supports that opinion.... Not us. So you are asking us to provide the proof for you? That does not seem right

 

[simonthezealot]

What about Arnobius or Cassian? Are they early Christians you have respect for or not?