Porn on the internet

[Cos-play]

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[WarriorAngel]

Lust - the sin that is unhealthy for people.

It leads people into unhealthy relationships.
It makes people objects of admiration rather than someone who has a good heart.
Porn is immodest.
It is a fantasy that frustrates.
Serial killers advised against it.
It causes people to be prostitutes because they are having sex for money.

I also read a confession site once - about porn addictions.
The men anonymously could tell how they really felt.
Most became impotent without it.
Most couldn't have a normal relationship because of the fantasy.
It caused a lot of animosity within marriages who ended in divorce.
NOW THOSE ARE 'ANONYMOUS' CONFESSIONS.

Plus - it is cheating. It's a form of disloyalty.
You're supposed to have one person in your heart and mind, your spouse.
Furthermore; sex is not a recreational past time.
It's the most beautiful intimacy between a man and woman in marriage.

Watching others fornicate is definitely a sin, you are partaking in.

The list is endless on why its immoral and disruptive to a healthy relationship with your spouse.

Thats not hysteria - because i already read about this stuff quite a while ago - in past debates in here.
Stats dont lie. It increases dysfunctional relating among ppl who view it.

 

[anjelica]

It causes men who watch it to abuse. Their. Wi ves. I know th at f or a. Fa ct, but have no backing evidence. Can cause ter rible violence too, aas the woman is objectified

 

[Mudinyeri]

Saint Pope John Paul II
“There is no dignity when the human dimension is eliminated from the person. In short, the problem with pornography is not that it shows too much of the person, but that it shows far too little.”

I found this quotation particularly interesting. We could delete the word "pornography" from this sentence and insert any number of other words that Christians do not see as sinful, addictive, etc. and the statement would be just as true.

To be clear, I think the porn industry has harmful effects - harmful to those on both sides of the equation. Of course, this same thing could be said about many industries. Unfortunately, many of the claims made about pornography are unsubstantiated by empirical data. We weaken our case when we proliferate information based on anecdotes, opinion and guesses as opposed to facts.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Internet porn incrementally draws people deeper and deeper into the dark world of it. For example, if someone looks up one kind of porn other more "hardcore" porn will pop up on the same webpage to lure the person in after they become desensitized to the kind they had been looking at until before they know it they are looking at rape, bestiality, homosexuality, child porn, etc.. And then they might start acting out those sick fantasies as has happened with some serial killers and rapists.

"Among the alarming developments of these years has been the widespread increase of pornography and wanton violence in the media. Books and magazines, recordings, the cinema, the theatre, television, videocassettes, advertising displays and even telecommunications frequently offer a representation of violent behaviour or of permissiveness in sexual activity that reaches the point of being openly pornographic and morally offensive. As reflections of the dark side of a human nature marred by sin, pornography and the exaltation of violence are age-old realities of the human condition. In the past quarter century, however, they have taken on new dimensions and have become serious social problems. At a time of widespread and unfortunate confusion about moral norms, the communications media have made pornography and violence accessible to a vastly expanded audience, including young people and even children, and a problem which at one time was confined mainly to wealthy countries has now begun, via the communications media, to corrupt moral values in developing nations."

— Pontifical Council for Social Communications (1989)​

 

[pdudgeon]

I frequently hear a lot of these phrases without any scientific backing. Are you familiar with any comprehensive research that bears out these statements? Specifically, I'm interested in studies that demonstrate a causal relationship between porn and reduced intimacy. I've seen numerous studies that showed a correlation but never a causation.

I'd also be interested in any studies that demonstrate a clear differentiation in the habit forming nature of voyeurism as compared to any other behavior, i.e. is voyeurism more habit forming than other habitual behaviors.

Not looking to start an argument. Just looking for supporting facts.

think of it this way.
the body has 6 entrances. Of those 6, 4 are also exit points.
The two parts that provide entrance but no exit are the eyes and the ears,
and thus they have no natural bodily defenses to rid the body of either excess
or impure items which can cause harm or damage to the body itself.

Which body parts does pornography target?
the two without exits.

all the information that goes through the eyes and ears is lodged
in the brain for play back; both the good and the bad are stored there.

habits of any sort (good and bad) are formed through repetition which produces
the desired result. Pornography is a 'closed loop" habit, satisfying the self which is the object.
In doing so it takes the God-given gift of human sexuality and reproduction which was designed to be shared
endlessly and selflessly, and instead turns it into an unfulfilling craving for repetition that is never satisfied.

because the eyes and ears have no natural defenses, they also have no natural way of informing
the brain when enough information has been received, as do our other body parts.
they also have no natural defense against consuming that which is either unhealthy,
or overloading the system beyond that which it can process.
and so hidden damage is done that we do not recognize while engaged in the viewing and hearing.

 

[Mudinyeri]

@pdudgeon you must view a different kind of porn than I've ever seen.

Your premise is interesting. Let me cogitate on it for a bit. Aren't all habits, "closed loop" habits? Don't nearly all habits satisfy the self (super-ego, ego, id)?

Food for thought: From an anatomical point of view, the eyes and ears are also exits (tears, ear wax).

 

[Michie]

I'm getting grossed out now.

 

[MikeK]

My experience is apparently different than most of y'all's. I think porn is evil and it robs humans of their dignity. That said, I've seen a lot of porn in my time and my preferences are what they've always been. It didn't make me gay or make me desire children or animals. I'm pretty vanilla I guess. If anything it made me eventually indifferent to pornography without having any notable effect on my sex drive.

 

[dzheremi]

As my grandmother was fond of saying (not about pornography, but when I was a kid and wanted to see Robocop or something), garbage in - garbage out. Nevermind empirical studies of the effects of porn, etc. Each one of those data points is also a person, just like everyone in porn (from the producing side to the consumer side) is a person. And people deserve better than harmful garbage.

It is telling to me that in Orwell's 1984, one of the government departments charged with manipulating society to keep everyone in line was tasked with the production of smut. I don't think that's so far-fetched, really. When people equate liberation in any sense with the right or practice of selling (faux) intimacy for money (thanks, Playboy et al.), or paying for the same, it is a sign that the society in question in which this happens is in a downturn. All the sexual freedoms in the world can't replace a person's dignity, or real intimacy and respect in relationships (of all kinds, not just sexual), or any of the other things that society's porn overdose affects. In my mind, the question shouldn't be "am I free to consume this?", but "is it worth exercising the freedom to consume this when doing so has so many harmful or potentially harmful effects?" After all, in most modern western societies, the individual has a lot more freedom than in many other places that we would probably all agree are not very nice to live precisely due to their lack of freedoms (e.g., Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc). But is the best way then to use our freedom to produce or consume pornography? I really don't think so...and that's without making any value judgments against any people who might do so. It's more of a sad state of affairs than something that is morally shocking to me. In fact, it seems rather inevitable that it would be this way among people who use their freedom in such ways. There are still parts of the world where people cannot vote or speak or worship (or not worship) freely. The westerner sells the strength of his country short by focusing on the supposed freedom of not being attached to any dogma that might tell him to keep his clothes on, or control himself, or not participate in the exploitation of others for his own fleeting excitement. Porn should be condemned not out of a Victorian sense of moral outrage (though it is perfectly possible to object to it on moral grounds without being a prude), but because we should be better than to confuse it with some higher-level expression of freedom of choice, sexual agency, or anything else. The reality is that it is slimy and depressing, not fun or titillating. The best case scenario is that it becomes routine and the individual or the society becomes numb to it, which is really just sad. Pornography and its effects are really just sad.

 

[Mudinyeri]

@dzheremi with all due respect to your grandmother, her opinion that porn was (is) garbage was just that ... her opinion ... without a factual basis for the characterization.

My point in this discussion has been to shine a light on the tendency to parrot what we have heard others (often, those in authority) say without searching out our own truth based on the Bible and/or other factual data. It is our penchant for approaching complicated matters with this parrot-like approach that often garners ridicule from those truly seeking to understand the multi-faceted issues.

Like a child trying to understand why they shouldn't touch the burner on the stove whose parent responds with, "Because I said so," the explanation is inadequate leaving the child with still more questions than before.

 

[dzheremi]

My point in this discussion has been to shine a light on the tendency to parrot what we have heard others (often, those in authority) say without searching out our own truth based on the Bible and/or other factual data.

Wait, what? You want truth based on the Bible to somehow come to the conclusion that pornography is okay? Um..."whoever looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28). In wisdom, let us attend.

It is our penchant for approaching complicated matters with this parrot-like approach that often garners ridicule from those truly seeking to understand the multi-faceted issues.

The true understanding of pornography is that it is harmful and gross and sad. That's not parroting what others have said. That's looking at the effects that it has on people and society.

Like a child trying to understand why they shouldn't touch the burner on the stove whose parent responds with, "Because I said so," the explanation is inadequate leaving the child with still more questions than before.

So you either let them touch the stove so that they get burned and figure it out for themselves, or you, as the adult who already understands why it's not a good idea to touch the stove, decide that a child does not need to be rationally satisfied (indeed, depending on their age and maturity, it is highly probable that they can't be, no matter what you say) and tell them "Because I said so", because that is a perfectly reasonable answer to give to someone who lacks the ability to foresee how their actions can harm them.

"Because I said so" is in fact a great answer in that context, but it's not the one I gave in this thread, so I don't know that your analogy is very useful.

 

[Mudinyeri]

Wait, what? You want truth based on the Bible to somehow come to the conclusion that pornography is okay? Um..."whoever looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28). In wisdom, let us attend.

Where did I say porn was OK? What if I look at porn but don't lust?

The true understanding of pornography is that it is harmful and gross and sad. That's not parroting what others have said. That's looking at the effects that it has on people and society.

That is an opinion until it is substantiated by fact.

So you either let them touch the stove so that they get burned and figure it out for themselves, or you, as the adult who already understands why it's not a good idea to touch the stove, decide that a child does not need to be rationally satisfied (indeed, depending on their age and maturity, it is highly probable that they can't be, no matter what you say) and tell them "Because I said so", because that is a perfectly reasonable answer to give to someone who lacks the ability to foresee how their actions can harm them.

"Because I said so" is in fact a great answer in that context, but it's not the one I gave in this thread, so I don't know that your analogy is very useful.

For the analogy to work, the child must have a level of rational thought that deserves explanation. We're not trying to explain why porn is negative to children under the age of one.

 

[SnowyMacie]

Going out on a limb here with (with a saw)

This is a toptenz list - I trust toptenz, it's actually an edited site - on the top 10 facts about porn.

It's SFW and not in anyway salacious.

I dragged it over here because it contains information that you may find surprising, especially if you're one of those really dislikes porn. The industry is evidently not doing particularly well and has a questionable future.

http://www.toptenz.net/10-facts-about-porn.php

Thanks for the read!

I think pornography (and sex in general) is a fascinating thing to study from a psychological perspective, why people watch it, who watches it, and why they watch what they watch.

 

[MikeK]

Wait, what? You want truth based on the Bible to somehow come to the conclusion that pornography is okay? Um..."whoever looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28). In wisdom, let us attend.



The true understanding of pornography is that it is harmful and gross and sad. That's not parroting what others have said. That's looking at the effects that it has on people and society.



So you either let them touch the stove so that they get burned and figure it out for themselves, or you, as the adult who already understands why it's not a good idea to touch the stove, decide that a child does not need to be rationally satisfied (indeed, depending on their age and maturity, it is highly probable that they can't be, no matter what you say) and tell them "Because I said so", because that is a perfectly reasonable answer to give to someone who lacks the ability to foresee how their actions can harm them.

"Because I said so" is in fact a great answer in that context, but it's not the one I gave in this thread, so I don't know that your analogy is very useful.

Exactly. God does say so, so that's as far as the discussion has to go for the Christian. Now, there is plenty of awful stuff that goes hand-in-hand with porn, and very little (if any) good that comes from it.

 

[MikeK]

Thanks for the read!

I think pornography (and sex in general) is a fascinating thing to study from a psychological perspective, why people watch it, who watches it, and why they watch what they watch.

That it is. Human sexuality is fascinating. Especially interesting regarding this topic is which geographical areas search most for what. It's pretty eye-opening.

 

[SnowyMacie]

That it is. Human sexuality is fascinating. Especially interesting regarding this topic is which geographical areas search most for what. It's pretty eye-opening.

It is, I always read data and such released by pornhub about searches, locations, views, and the like.

 

[Michie]

What?! People have kinks according to the area they are in???

That it is. Human sexuality is fascinating. Especially interesting regarding this topic is which geographical areas search most for what. It's pretty eye-opening.

 

[grandvizier1006]

I frequently hear a lot of these phrases without any scientific backing. Are you familiar with any comprehensive research that bears out these statements? Specifically, I'm interested in studies that demonstrate a causal relationship between porn and reduced intimacy. I've seen numerous studies that showed a correlation but never a causation.

I'd also be interested in any studies that demonstrate a clear differentiation in the habit forming nature of voyeurism as compared to any other behavior, i.e. is voyeurism more habit forming than other habitual behaviors.

Not looking to start an argument. Just looking for supporting facts.

So, what would you say to the millions of young, mostly Christian, men that have gotten caught up with this?

 

[MikeK]

What?! People have kinks according to the area they are in???

I don't know if "kinks" is the right word, but maybe it is. Some areas are more likely to prefer specific races, some to prefer certain sexual-preferences more than their surrounding areas, etc. Its interested to see what red states and blue states are into, and it's interesting to see what Europe and the Middle East like.

American tastes tend toward lesbian porn, but with some strange outliers. Tennessee, Arkansas - cartoon porn? Really? And all y'all looking for step-incest porn? C'mon, man.

http://digg.com/2016/porn-hub-map-states

Porn is interesting to look at by genders too. I get that gay men like gay male porn and that straight men like male/female or lesbian porn. No shocks there. What surprises me is that a significant minority (approaching 20%, IIRC) of straight women enjoy gay male porn. That kind of surprises me. That many straight women enjoy lesbian porn is less surprising to me, but still interesting.