In defense of...

[JRSut1000]

I find it amusing that many Christians will gladly defend Christmas, but argue with us til they are blue in the face when we keep Yah's feast days, holidays (holy days). Aren't our holidays so much more exciting because they mean so much more in context of the entire Scriptures? How do you respond to this when it comes up?

 

[yedida]

I find it amusing that many Christians will gladly defend Christmas, but argue with us til they are blue in the face when we keep Yah's feast days, holidays (holy days). Aren't our holidays so much more exciting because they mean so much more in context of the entire Scriptures? How do you respond to this when it comes up?

See my answer in your other thread about Christmas. What is said about Christmas covers Easter.
I'm not the "know-it-all" but I think what I posted in that thread would go in here. We will never get someone else to seriously look into the Lord's Feasts if all we ever do is tear down what they hold as good and true. The Christmas/Easter observing Christian is observing those holidays in the right manner even if the secular trappings have seeped into their observances - that does not make those celebrations wrong or pagan.
When we openly, enthusiastically, and HONESTLY embrace what those observances are meant to celebrate, THEN we can hope that others will look into what we have found to be true in the Lord's Feasts.

 

[tm2cruz]

I find it amusing that many Christians will gladly defend Christmas, but argue with us til they are blue in the face when we keep Yah's feast days, holidays (holy days). Aren't our holidays so much more exciting because they mean so much more in context of the entire Scriptures? How do you respond to this when it comes up?

I want to defend! Hehe! Just kidding!
Yeah, i like the biblical holy days because i can clearly see Jesus/Yeshua in it than the easters, christmas, etc.

 

[yedida]

What it really comes down to is that whether or not someone else chooses to put up a christmas tree or hide easter eggs is none of our business. It's between them and God. He will deal with it in His own manner and in His own time.
And if all we do is constantly point out how wrong we think it is, we will only be strengthening the barriers they have already built against the Lord's Holy Feasts. If we see Yeshua in their celebrations, and He is there, then we will open up the door wider for them to look into God's appointed times.
It took me several years after I turned to Messianic Judaism to finally get where I'm at now. I used to prickle just being near a lighted tree, but I've calmed down a great deal since then. The Lord has been showing me more and more each year, that how someone else celebrates His Son's birth, death, resurrection is not any my business as long as these things are a part of that person's life. Abba has it all under control.
I don't do the tree and lights thing but I can now sit at a friend's Christmas Eve table (before or after a midnight service) with their tree all lit up, presents waiting to be opened, Jingle Bells playing in the background and I don't shudder, I'm relaxed, joyful, hum along and join in the celebration of the fact that my Savior indeed was born.

 

[JRSut1000]

I myself will not do this or take part in any of the celebrations. I'd be a total hypocrite if I said "I dont agree with it" then showed up to a xmas party. I guess I just don't have the same level of tolerance concerning these things. If a brother is going the wrong way and is ignorant of that and they ask me why I dont do these things, I'll directly tell them why, maybe it will provoke them to think about it a little bit more and do research on their own.

 

[visionary]

I myself will not do this or take part in any of the celebrations. I'd be a total hypocrite if I said "I dont agree with it" then showed up to a xmas party. I guess I just don't have the same level of tolerance concerning these things. If a brother is going the wrong way and is ignorant of that and they ask me why I dont do these things, I'll directly tell them why, maybe it will provoke them to think about it a little bit more and do research on their own.

That is the way to do it... Keep on following your God given convictions on this...

It use to be faith was black and white... nowadays it is relativism..don't say anything bad... tolerate the sin you see in the other.. and pray that God will open their eyes..

 

[yedida]

Like I said, it took me several years to get here. I wish now it hadn't taken me so long. Almost everyone that I have celebrated Christmas and Easter with have turned around and joined me in learning and celebrating the Lord's Feasts as well. Many continue to celebrate the Feasts on their own following their first experiences.
I don't feel hypocritical because I don't add all the external secular "trappings." It's not a hard thing to go to a midnight Christmas service or a sunrise Easter service, I worship the Lord there and celebrate his birth and his death and resurrection. This is not a bad thing. Admittedly, I don't go to these services on my own, but I have no problem whatsoever going with a friend.

 

[visionary]

I, on the other hand, bow out. My conscience can not bow because the King of Babylon demands it. I submit myself to God, and in doing so, have often ended up in the midst of the fray between God's Kingdom and the accusers, which I did not wish to enter. Here I stand and pray that God will use me and this moment to His glory.

 

[ChavaK]

How do you respond to this when it comes up?

I don't....it's not my business. Obviously through their study and scriptural interpretation they believe they are doing thing the correct thing. As others
have stated before, if they believe those holidays are in honor of G-d, then it's fine. I doubt many are even aware of the supposed pagan origin of them, but use these holidays (Christmas and Easter) as an expression
of their faith.

 

[xDenax]

How do you respond to this when it comes up?

I don't care if other people celebrate Christmas or Easter. Who am I to tell them what to do or not to do? I would NEVER tell a friend or a family member they shouldn't celebrate Christmas or Easter. And they don't argue with me about Jewish Holidays.

 

[visionary]

1 Corinthians 10:14
Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.

2 Corinthians 6:15
And what concord hath Christ with Belial?

 

[ContraMundum]

I don't think people have really thought this through- with the exception of Yedida.

I have yet to meet a Christian that "defends Christmas" based on scripture or dogma. It's just a holiday. It's a chance to celebrate something important in history- to Christians a most important event. It's just a day set aside for that. I don't think any serious scholar thinks Dec 25th is Jesus' birthday (nor is sukkot seriously considered for that matter, though it preaches well to this crowd).

As for the paranoia and fear ascribed to the date Dec 25th or to having a tree with decorations etc- I wonder what people are afraid of. Demons in the tinsel? Almost every day of the year could be attached to some kind of pre-Christian celebration in some part of the planet. God redeems sin and sinners, so dates on the calendar is not too big a task for him, and it is up to us to make those times holy- "redeem the times". What's more, if you are that afraid of paganism- what on earth do you think of some of the Laws and holidays in the Torah? Piles of it is pre-dated by pagan Egypt and Canaan.

Further, all this talk of "The Lord's Feasts/festivals/times" is a bit of psycho-babble to me. They are holidays for ISREAL. God doesn't need days off to remember things, but He gave them to the Jewish people so we could remember what He did for us. They were not given as a law for Gentiles to follow. They come from the Lord, but they belong to the Jewish people. Can we please own them?

Why are there so many self-hating Gentiles?

 

[visionary]

Gentiles can be God fearers, loving God. They take God's kingdom and all its rules seriously as any new citizen to a new country should.

 

[yedida]

I don't think people have really thought this through- with the exception of Yedida.

I have yet to meet a Christian that "defends Christmas" based on scripture or dogma. It's just a holiday. It's a chance to celebrate something important in history- to Christians a most important event. It's just a day set aside for that. I don't think any serious scholar thinks Dec 25th is Jesus' birthday (nor is sukkot seriously considered for that matter, though it preaches well to this crowd).

As for the paranoia and fear ascribed to the date Dec 25th or to having a tree with decorations etc- I wonder what people are afraid of. Demons in the tinsel? Almost every day of the year could be attached to some kind of pre-Christian celebration in some part of the planet. God redeems sin and sinners, so dates on the calendar is not too big a task for him, and it is up to us to make those times holy- "redeem the times". What's more, if you are that afraid of paganism- what on earth do you think of some of the Laws and holidays in the Torah? Piles of it is pre-dated by pagan Egypt and Canaan.

Further, all this talk of "The Lord's Feasts/festivals/times" is a bit of psycho-babble to me. They are holidays for ISREAL. God doesn't need days off to remember things, but He gave them to the Jewish people so we could remember what He did for us. They were not given as a law for Gentiles to follow. They come from the Lord, but they belong to the Jewish people. Can we please own them?

Why are there so many self-hating Gentiles?

Certainly they belong to the Jewish people. BUT they also belong to any who are called by God's name through adoption. What belongs to the Father belong to the children, ALL the children; otherwise, there is no family.
I think the only celebration that belongs to a single individual, would be his/her physical birthday and even that would be shared with more than just one child in such a very large family as the one we are a part of.

 

[Heber]

I don't think people have really thought this through- with the exception of Yedida.

I have yet to meet a Christian that "defends Christmas" based on scripture or dogma. It's just a holiday. It's a chance to celebrate something important in history- to Christians a most important event. It's just a day set aside for that. I don't think any serious scholar thinks Dec 25th is Jesus' birthday (nor is sukkot seriously considered for that matter, though it preaches well to this crowd).

As for the paranoia and fear ascribed to the date Dec 25th or to having a tree with decorations etc- I wonder what people are afraid of. Demons in the tinsel? Almost every day of the year could be attached to some kind of pre-Christian celebration in some part of the planet. God redeems sin and sinners, so dates on the calendar is not too big a task for him, and it is up to us to make those times holy- "redeem the times". What's more, if you are that afraid of paganism- what on earth do you think of some of the Laws and holidays in the Torah? Piles of it is pre-dated by pagan Egypt and Canaan.

Further, all this talk of "The Lord's Feasts/festivals/times" is a bit of psycho-babble to me. They are holidays for ISREAL. God doesn't need days off to remember things, but He gave them to the Jewish people so we could remember what He did for us. They were not given as a law for Gentiles to follow. They come from the Lord, but they belong to the Jewish people. Can we please own them?

Why are there so many self-hating Gentiles?

Given that G_d's intention, whenever Yeshua was born, was that it was for the Jews - first to the Jews, then to the Gentiles - why are so many Gentiles against it, or worried about it, not to mention those who celebrate it? It's not, in my opinion, their feast. That, properly, should be Epiphany, not Christmas.

 

[ContraMundum]

Certainly they belong to the Jewish people. BUT they also belong to any who are called by God's name through adoption. What belongs to the Father belong to the children, ALL the children; otherwise, there is no family.
I think the only celebration that belongs to a single individual, would be his/her physical birthday and even that would be shared with more than just one child in such a very large family as the one we are a part of.

While there is a certain logic to that argumentation, it really dosn't gel with the testimony of scripture. Reading through Rom. 9-11 and a dozen or so other passages one is left with the conclusion that the One New Man shares in the spiritual blessings of Israel, but the Gentile culture is not assimilated into or inferior to that of Israel. In fact it is very clear that the Mosaic Covenant is not the inheritance of the Gentiles- the Abrahamic one is.

 

[visionary]

There is one law for the foreigners, strangers, and Israel. Not everyone is a priest, a ruler, or a judge, but as citizens of God's Kingdom we are all required to be obedient to Him in our capacity, and in our position.

 

[yedida]

While there is a certain logic to that argumentation, it really dosn't gel with the testimony of scripture. Reading through Rom. 9-11 and a dozen or so other passages one is left with the conclusion that the One New Man shares in the spiritual blessings of Israel, but the Gentile culture is not assimilated into or inferior to that of Israel. In fact it is very clear that the Mosaic Covenant is not the inheritance of the Gentiles- the Abrahamic one is.

And these Feasts have no spiritual impact for the believer? One cannot see Yeshua all though each and every one of them? I do. Therefore, I celebrate the spring feasts in memorial & joy of how He fulfilled them in total, and I celebrate the fall feasts in anticipation of how they too will be fulfilled in total in Him one day.

 

[ContraMundum]

And these Feasts have no spiritual impact for the believer? One cannot see Yeshua all though each and every one of them? I do. Therefore, I celebrate the spring feasts in memorial & joy of how He fulfilled them in total, and I celebrate the fall feasts in anticipation of how they too will be fulfilled in total in Him one day.

I see Him in every day. I don't need religion to help me along. I have a relationship.

 

[visionary]

If you do not attend the meeting that your boss has called all to attend.. how long do you think the boss is going to think you are part of His company.