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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

SummerMadness

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Yeah.... right - you do know I am not white, right?
It does not matter that you're not white, you are complaining about black people in this thread alluding to the idea that murder of black people in Chicago is by other black people... but the first thing on your list is the murder of a white male. When did I make any reference to your racial background?
 
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KCfromNC

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Absolutely agree because it exposes the hypocrisy of a movement that ignores the cause of thousands of people being killed a year.

That's not what the word hypocritical means.

Every life, white, black, brown whatever the pigmentation of the skin, is valid and precious.

Then why are you complaining about a group which is trying to improve some of those lives?

Plugging the hole in the dam, while the walls are crumbling isn't going to do very much for the people who are drowning.
Neither does sitting around complaining people who are actually working to try and improve things.
 
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rambot

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Two things:
You are using ONLY deaths as a rubric for police mistreatment. As summer madness pointed out, there are many kinds of misaligned treatment that blacks get.

You keep ignoring the fact that there are A LOT of groups that work with inner city gang violence and advocate for changes to help that. You have said several times that you can't understand this lack of prioritizing and why they aren't doing more for urban centres. But it has been made clear that things ARE getting done around that. Fact is that gang violence is a MUCH harder problem to solve than mistreatment by police. For the latter, there SHOULD be an ombudsman, a chain of command, a hierarchy with a rigid set of expectations. For the former, it's chaos and nobody answers for nobody.
 
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GoldenBoy89

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It's like those Mothers Against Drunk Driving or, MADD...

So hypocritical of them to only care about drunk drivers and none of the hundreds of other causes of death on the road. They focus on just one cause while there are literally millions of other ways to die!
 
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SummerMadness

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Two things:
You are using ONLY deaths as a rubric for police mistreatment. As summer madness pointed out, there are many kinds of misaligned treatment that blacks get.

You keep ignoring the fact that there are A LOT of groups that work with inner city gang violence and advocate for changes to help that. You have said several times that you can't understand this lack of prioritizing and why they aren't doing more for urban centres. But it has been made clear that things ARE getting done around that. Fact is that gang violence is a MUCH harder problem to solve than mistreatment by police. For the latter, there SHOULD be an ombudsman, a chain of command, a hierarchy with a rigid set of expectations. For the former, it's chaos and nobody answers for nobody.
I would also add that when you equate gangs to police departments, you are really holding police officers in low esteem, they are supposed to be held to a higher standard, that's why we pay them and give them power to protect and serve the community. There is also the very problematic argument that black people are responsible for black crime while the police are responsible for white crime because that's essentially what is argued; black people do not deserve to have the police serve their communities until there is no crime in their communities. You would never hear someone suggest that for terrorism in the white community and given the recent mass shooting and car attack in Charlottesville, would it be off base to insist that white people "clean up their community"? If that suggestion bothered you, welcome to being treated like a marginalized group where everyone who shares your skin color or religion is blamed for the actions of an individual.

Didn't this thread start with a complaint that because most police officers do not commit crime it is not a problem? Why does this standard not apply to black people or Muslims? And this is why such misapplication of arguments gets you (of course, you in general, not you rambot ;)) labeled as racist.
 
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Always in His Presence

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Show me where BLM has ever addressed what is happening in Chicago, show me where any of the millions of dollars they have goes to helping them and you will prove your point.

Until then, you are just making excuses.
 
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SummerMadness

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Show me where BLM has ever addressed what is happening in Chicago, show me where any of the millions of dollars they have goes to helping them and you will prove your point.

Until then, you are just making excuses.
You are the one arguing that there is nothing being done in Chicago, so it's really up to you to demonstrate that.
 
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Always in His Presence

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I can’t show what BLM is not doing. Can you show what they are doing?

They are extremely vocal over false narratives like Michael Brown, but silent on what’s happening in Chicago.
 
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SummerMadness

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You can look at what the chapter in Chicago is doing, what organizations it is collaborating with, and what those organizations are doing. The thing is, the chapter website does contain all that information, it's quite obvious you didn't look, much like you foisted the murder of a white male as evidence of "black-on-black" violence.
 
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SummerMadness

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So you can’t find anything then.
The information is right there on the Chicago chapter's website on their "Get Involved" page. But much like foisting the murder of a white male as evidence of "black-on-black" crime, you are not even attempting to look into the subject.
 
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SummerMadness

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The irony of threads like this is that the same people that are probably crowing about the second amendment do not have a problem when African Americans have their constitutional rights eroded. You have investigations that demonstrate routine violations of the Constitution, but they don't have a problem with that because it's only African Americans having their rights violated. And then these people have the nerve to complain when people protest the fact that we are not all treated equally. Last I checked, your particular skin color does not mean the Constitution does not apply to you. And the main problem is not even the violation of Constitutional rights, the main problem is that after we find these patterns of abuse, there are no reforms, reprimands, firings, etc.

We have an organization that is devoted to everyone enjoying their Constitutional rights and in response, they're told that the Constitution does not apply to them because it only applies to white people.
 
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rambot

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Show me where BLM has ever addressed what is happening in Chicago, show me where any of the millions of dollars they have goes to helping them and you will prove your point.

Until then, you are just making excuses.
Show me that you have knowledge of the groups that have that as a mandate. Show me the groups and their websites and their actions.

I ask you again: Why is BLM (or any/every black group) obliged to address gangland death? Their mandate and philosophy is about police (and justice system) treatment of blacks.

Are you having a hard time understanding that?
 
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Always in His Presence

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The group commanding national attention is addressing 16 deaths a year and ingnoring thousands of others.

Black Lives Matter, only to police deaths, so it seems. Are you having a hard time understanding that?
 
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SummerMadness

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The group commanding national attention is addressing 16 deaths a year and ingnoring thousands of others.

Black Lives Matter, only to police deaths, so it seems. Are you having a hard time understanding that?
When all else fails, return to the false premise of the thread.
 
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Always in His Presence

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When all else fails, return to the false premise of the thread.

I have asked numerous times for proof the BLM is doing something for Chicago.

You have failed to offer any proof that BLM has dines anything in Chicago

The premise stands until that is shown.
 
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SummerMadness

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I have asked numerous times for proof the BLM is doing something for Chicago.

You have failed to offer any proof that BLM has dines anything in Chicago

The premise stands until that is shown.
When all else fails, pretend as if people have not produced evidence and ignore the fact that the initial false premise has already had a freight train run through the holes of its logic. Then follow that up with claims of victory. :yawn:
 
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Always in His Presence

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pretend as if people have not produced evidence


LOL not one person has provided information that BLM has done anything in or for Chicago - sorry it bothers you so much, but maybe you can be an agent of change in BLM.
 
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rambot

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The group commanding national attention is addressing 16 deaths a year and ingnoring thousands of others.

Black Lives Matter, only to police deaths, so it seems. Are you having a hard time understanding that?
Listen now because I feel my points have been ignored so I guess, I just have to directly and clearly acknowledge what you say so maybe we could move on to a new, slightly more nuanced point.
I understand what you are saying. I have understood what you've been saying since you trotted out that list of black dead people that you don't care about way before now. I get it; "Isn't it ironic that BLM doesn't care about gangland deaths". Now, I have addressed this point DIRECTLY several times but you seem to be ignoring it. Don't assume I am having a hard time understanding you. YOU are not addressing my point.

____
Also, you are getting too hung up on a name; I can't help but think that you are probably under the impression that North Korea is ALSO a democratic republic and is therefore governed EXACTLY like the US.

I am wondering whether you think the Rainbow Coalition exists to protect rainbows, or that Focus on the Family is an organization meant to encourage excellence in family photography.

So how about you ignore the NAME of black lives matter and get a better understanding on what they are working to do (hint: It has to do with police treatment).
 
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TLK Valentine

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lets some comparison.

1. How many unjustified police shootings were there and how does it break down by race?

2. How many unjustified shooting were there based on same race. How does it break down by race?

1. How many women were raped in 2016?
2. How many women had consensual sex?

Well, gosh -- by comparison, sexual asault seems like a non-issue, doesn't it?
 
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