Imputed righteousness

[mlqurgw]

And what has this verse to do with the subject according to you?

Or are you saying Christ's wisdom is imputed to you?

The verse speaks for itself I need not say anything. You may try all you can to twist it but you simply can't get around it. Christ is Jehovah-tsidkenu, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. Jer. 23:6

 

[holdon]

The verse speaks for itself I need not say anything. You may try all you can to twist it but you simply can't get around it. Christ is Jehovah-tsidkenu, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. Jer. 23:6

But I fully agree. And that means exactly that. But it does not mean that Christ's righteousness, his Law-abiding life, is imputed to us.

 

[mlqurgw]

But I fully agree. And that means exactly that. But it does not mean that Christ's righteousness, his Law-abiding life, is imputed to us.

I know I am going to regret even beginning to enter into a discussion with you, I already do, but I must ask you to please tell me what you think righteousness is.

 

[holdon]

I know I am going to regret even beginning to enter into a discussion with you, I already do, but I must ask you to please tell me what you think righteousness is.

Dikaiosune - righteousness, is the right (eous) state relative to one's position.

 

[mlqurgw]

Dikaiosune - righteousness, is the right (eous) state relative to one's position.

You want to play games and I am not interested. I do not trifle with the truth of God.

 

[holdon]

You want to play games and I am not interested. I do not trifle with the truth of God.

Are you saying I do trifle with the truth of God? Are you saying I play games?

 

[A Brother In Christ]

Rom 5:17 If, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

1Co 1:30 He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our wisdom and our righteousness and sanctification and redemption.

2Co 5:21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Phi 3:8-11 Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith--that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.

ETA:

1. Righteousness is a free gift.
2. Christ is our righteousness.
3. Christ became our sin in the same way that we become His righteousness.
4. Being good could never make me righteous like that righteousness from God which comes by faith; i.e. Christ's righteousness imputed to us.

amen

 

[A Brother In Christ]

And what has this verse to do with the subject according to you?

Or are you saying Christ's wisdom is imputed to you?

If a christian is play powerball christian style..col 3:1-3

yes one can have God's wisdom depending on one's knowledge of scriptures

 

[holdon]

If a christian is play powerball christian style..col 3:1-3

yes one can have God's wisdom depending on one's knowledge of scriptures

I see that it is not given to everyone.

 

[nobdysfool]

Dikaiosune - righteousness, is the right (eous) state relative to one's position.

You're leaving quite a bit out. the Strong's definition states this:

dikaiosunē - equity (of character or act); specifically (Christian) justification: - righteousness.

Thayer's definition:

dikaiosunē
Thayer Definition:
1) in a broad sense: state of him who is as he ought to be, righteousness, the condition acceptable to God
1a) the doctrine concerning the way in which man may attain a state approved of God
1b) integrity, virtue, purity of life, rightness, correctness of thinking feeling, and acting
2) in a narrower sense, justice or the virtue which gives each his due


If God declares someone to be righteous, He must have some basis for that declaration, He cannot just make it up out of thin air, and declare someone to be righteous when they are manifestly NOT by their very deeds, thoughts, and heart. Some have argued that God can just decide to forgive sins, in effect dismissing them by a wave of His Hand, but such an idea violates Justice, which is also an Attribute of God. Others argue that God takes the faith produced from a heart in bondage to sin, stained by the taint of sin and unrighteousness, and somehow declare that faulty product to be righteous according to His standard. Neither view is correct.

If we are declared righteous on the basis of what Christ has done on our behalf, that by definition is an imputation of Christ's Righteousness to us. We are declared to be righteous before God, NOT on the basis of anything we have done, but on the basis of what Christ has done.

Jer 23:5-6 KJV Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. (6) In His days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this [is] His name whereby He shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

We are declared righteous on the basis of Christ, not ourselves. that is an imputation of the righteousness of Christ to us. We are justified before God by the death, and resurrection of Christ.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

I see that it is not given to everyone.

not given to unbelievers

given to all believers

yet its a choice...

carnal believers choose not to go there

 

[holdon]

You're leaving quite a bit out.

Why? Nobody asked me what Strong or Thayer say. So, I didn't leave anything out. As a matter of fact the definition I gave, comes very close to Thayer 1).

If God declares someone to be righteous, He must have some basis for that declaration, He cannot just make it up out of thin air, and declare someone to be righteous when they are manifestly NOT by their very deeds, thoughts, and heart.

But He does. He is just in justifying those of the faith in Jesus. Rom 3:26. For those that were in sin (see context), faith is the only way to be justified: because it is God who justifies on that basis and on that basis alone.

Some have argued that God can just decide to forgive sins, in effect dismissing them by a wave of His Hand, but such an idea violates Justice, which is also an Attribute of God. Others argue that God takes the faith produced from a heart in bondage to sin, stained by the taint of sin and unrighteousness, and somehow declare that faulty product to be righteous according to His standard. Neither view is correct.

The only correct view is the biblical view:

Rom 3:21 But now without law righteousness of God is manifested, borne witness to by the law and the prophets;
3:22 righteousness of God by faith of Jesus Christ towards all, and upon all those who believe: for there is no difference; 3:23 for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 3:25 whom God has set forth a mercy-seat, through faith in his blood, for the shewing forth of his righteousness, in respect of the passing by the sins that had taken place before, through the forbearance of God; 3:26 for the shewing forth of his righteousness in the present time, so that he should be just, and justify him that is of the faith of Jesus. 3:27 Where then is boasting? It has been excluded. By what law? of works? Nay, but by law of faith; 3:28 for we reckon that a man is justified by faith, without works of law.
The bible says that we are justified by faith. Through faith righteousness is imputed to us. God considers us righteous.

If we are declared righteous on the basis of what Christ has done on our behalf

And where is it said what Christ has done "on our behalf"? You say "if we are declared righteous on the basis of what Christ has done on our behalf" are you talking about His life? Where does it say that???

, that by definition is an imputation of Christ's Righteousness to us. We are declared to be righteous before God, NOT on the basis of anything we have done, but on the basis of what Christ has done.

I agree: on the basis of His sacrificial death. Not on the basis of His righteous life. "for if righteousness is by law, then Christ has died for nothing."

Jer 23:5-6 KJV Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. (6) In His days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this [is] His name whereby He shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

We are declared righteous on the basis of Christ, not ourselves. that is an imputation of the righteousness of Christ to us. We are justified before God by the death, and resurrection of Christ.

So, it is not on the basis of His life here on earth then.

 

[nobdysfool]

Why? Nobody asked me what Strong or Thayer say. So, I didn't leave anything out. As a matter of fact the definition I gave, comes very close to Thayer 1). But He does. He is just in justifying those of the faith in Jesus. Rom 3:26. For those that were in sin (see context), faith is the only way to be justified: because it is God who justifies on that basis and on that basis alone.

Faith is how we receive Justification. But it is not faith that produces it. Do you understand the difference?

The only correct view is the biblical view:

Indeed.

The bible says that we are justified by faith. Through faith righteousness is imputed to us. God considers us righteous.

Exactly. So why have you been fighting against nearly everyone over this? You just stated exactly what we've been saying (at least myself and other Calvinists).

And where is it said what Christ has done "on our behalf"? You say "if we are declared righteous on the basis of what Christ has done on our behalf" are you talking about His life? Where does it say that???

Where have I ever said that?? Christ lived a righteous life, proving He was Righteous, but it was His death, burial and resurrection that bought our redemption, justification, and eventual glorification, whereby God imputes the Righteousness of Christ to us, counting His Righteousness as ours, or to say it another way, God considers us righteous on account of Christ.

I agree: on the basis of His sacrificial death. Not on the basis of His righteous life. "for if righteousness is by law, then Christ has died for nothing." So, it is not on the basis of His life here on earth then.

Correct. The Incarnation alone did not purchase redemption or forgiveness of sins, it was His death and resurrection which bought our redemtption, and paid for it. We are justified by His death and resurrection.

So why have we argued this point before? It seems to me that you and I agree on the basics of this concept. Don't we?

 

[holdon]

Faith is how we receive Justification. But it is not faith that produces it. Do you understand the difference?

Faith is the basis on which God imputes righteousness to us. "Abraham believed and it was imputed to him as righteousness".


Exactly. So why have you been fighting against nearly everyone over this? You just stated exactly what we've been saying (at least myself and other Calvinists). [/quote]Because quite a number will say that "Christ's righteous life" is imputed to us. Nothing of the kind according to Scripture....

Where have I ever said that?? Christ lived a righteous life, proving He was Righteous, but it was His death, burial and resurrection that bought our redemption, justification, and eventual glorification,

So far so good. If it was His death that brought our justication, then it was not His life.

whereby God imputes the Righteousness of Christ to us, counting His Righteousness as ours, or to say it another way, God considers us righteous on account of Christ.

God accounts us righteous on account of our faith in Christ's redemption wrought on the cross.

Correct. The Incarnation alone did not purchase redemption or forgiveness of sins, it was His death and resurrection which bought our redemtption, and paid for it. We are justified by His death and resurrection.

And this is very important. The incarnation alone could never have saved us......

So why have we argued this point before? It seems to me that you and I agree on the basics of this concept. Don't we?

Well, I would hope so. I am still not entirely convinced you do. But people are so used to the "exchange idea" of Christ's righteousness, so they keep using such terminology.

 

[nobdysfool]

Faith is the basis on which God imputes righteousness to us. "Abraham believed and it was imputed to him as righteousness".

Faith was the means, the conduit, for Abraham to be counted as righteous. The faith didn't become righteousness, it was what allowed Abraham to be declared (imputed) righteous.

Exactly. So why have you been fighting against nearly everyone over this? You just stated exactly what we've been saying (at least myself and other Calvinists).

Because quite a number will say that "Christ's righteous life" is imputed to us. Nothing of the kind according to Scripture....

The only ones I see saying that are the EO's, and the humanists.

So far so good. If it was His death that brought our justication, then it was not His life. God accounts us righteous on account of our faith in Christ's redemption wrought on the cross.

The only difference you and I have is at this point. I say faith is the means by which God declares us to be righteous, not with out own righteousness, but by virtue of our union with Him, we partake of the righteousness of Christ. That is the basis of imputation.

And this is very important. The incarnation alone could never have saved us......

Agreed. Christ did not come to live for our justification, but to die for it, so that we could then live.

Well, I would hope so. I am still not entirely convinced you do. But people are so used to the "exchange idea" of Christ's righteousness, so they keep using such terminology.

Your objection to "exchange" is a failure on your part to understand what imputation is. It is not an exchange, it is a declaration that one is what he otherwise would not be, on the basis of faith.

 

[Ethan_Fetch]

im·pute ([FONT=verdana, sans-serif] P [/FONT]) Pronunciation Key (

m-py

t

)
tr.v. im·put·ed, im·put·ing, im·putes

1. To relate to a particular cause or source; attribute the fault or responsibility to: imputed the rocket failure to a faulty gasket; kindly imputed my clumsiness to inexperience.
2. To assign as a characteristic; credit: the gracefulness so often imputed to cats. See Synonyms at attribute.

Rom. 4:1-5
What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness." Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness
...
Rom. 4:23-25
But the words "it was counted to him" were not written for his sake alone, but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.

 

[frumanchu]

The more serious part is that if Christ's righteousness, (he was fully righteous) could be counted for our righteousness, then the cross was not necessary at all. It would be His life saving us and not His death.....

That is false, as is easily demonstrated by the parallel of the OT sacrifices to Christ's sacrifice. Christ is both the spotless lamb and the scapegoat. His sacrifice involves the expiation of our sins, just the sins of Israel were placed upon the goat and the goat was sent into the outer darkness.

 

[holdon]

That is false, as is easily demonstrated by the parallel of the OT sacrifices to Christ's sacrifice. Christ is both the spotless lamb and the scapegoat. His sacrifice involves the expiation of our sins, just the sins of Israel were placed upon the goat and the goat was sent into the outer darkness.

And you think "a spotless lamb" can save us, without dying?

 

[frumanchu]

Where did I say that, holdon?

 

[holdon]

Where did I say that, holdon?

Because you reacted on me saying that Christ's life didn't save us, but His death?

Didn't you say that that was "false"?