impossible paradoxes of faith

[food4thought]

Well, I haven't stuffed anything. I don't believe there is a hell or a god to send me there. But it seems as though most versions of christianity, especially the most fundamental, accept the doctrine of hell. If a god created people who he knew would choose to go to hell, regardless of the degree to which they have free will, how could he not at least be significantly responsible for their damnation. If he knew the results and made the decision anyway...

The short answer is because it is for the ultimate good of those who would accept Him that there be free will. God, being good, provides for the best ultimate good for the most possible people... being able to experience and respond freely to God through all eternity is absolutely the best possible good there can be, yet because free will has a negative side, there will be those who choose seperation from God for all eternity; and that is hell, which the imagery of fire, brimstone, sulfer, weeping, gnashing of teeth, and outer darkness is all designed to convey.

And I don't know that many have missed the point but simply see the point as nonsensical. Why does he want worship at all? What's wrong with getting that from near-rote beings? If the end result of the process of salvation is people who will give you the kind of praise you would expect from angels, then why does a process requiring most of creation to be damned make the results more special?

God wants us to worship Him because it is good to worship Him. It is what we are designed to do, it is what a limited creature should do before an infinite Creator... God created us for OUR GOOD, not for anything He needs, but it was His good pleasure to create beings that would be ultimately blessed beyond any other creature (us and the angels).

It boggles my mind to wonder why a god would desire worship. I can see why humans do. In social animals, social hierarchy matters. Those at the top of a social structure have more access to resources and mating rights. The desire to be at the top of a social hierarchic is part of what motivates social animals to put themselves at the top to have those resources and mating rights. But why would a god have any need or desire for worship? Why does he need humans to validate his self esteem?

As I stated above, God desires us to worship Him because it is in our best interest to do so. If you are upset that God would design you in such a way, getting angry with Him is pointless... you might as well get angry with your parents for giving you birth! As the Scripture says:

Isa 45:9-10 NASB "Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker-- An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth! Will the clay say to the potter, 'What are you doing?' Or the thing you are making say, 'He has no hands'? (10) "Woe to him who says to a father, 'What are you begetting?' Or to a woman, 'To what are you giving birth?'"

But I understand that you are not angry with God, you simply do not believe He exists... All I can tell you is that from personal experience: You are sadly mistaken.

 

[SavedByChrist94]

This question is based on the following assumptions of god, so it applies only to this particular kind of god. If your god doesn't match these assumptions then ignore the question.

1. god is omniscient
2. god is loving
3. god is merciful
4. hell exists
5. free will exists

Question:

Why would an omniscient, loving, merciful god create people knowing that they will, by their own free will, go to hell?

Because God decided to create us with Free Will, it's a gift and that's how He wanted us made, which if you think about it is loving. therefore God is Omniscient in His Infinite Power and Will to create independent beings with Free Will, He is loving to Bless us with life and give us a fair chance, He is Merciful as without us even deserving it He died for us so that we do not go to Hell, Hell exists as Just punishment to evil, and Free Will exists.

 

[seashale76]

This question is based on the following assumptions of god, so it applies only to this particular kind of god. If your god doesn't match these assumptions then ignore the question.

1. god is omniscient
2. god is loving
3. god is merciful
4. hell exists
5. free will exists

Question:

Why would an omniscient, loving, merciful god create people knowing that they will, by their own free will, go to hell?

Answer to your question:

Hell is still being in the presence of a loving God. Here is a quote from an old Wikipedia article on the topic (that doesn’t seem to be around anymore) that I thought explained it pretty well: "For many ancient Christians, Hell was the same "place" as Heaven: living in the presence of God and directly experiencing God's love. Whether this was experienced as pleasure or torment depended on one's disposition towards God. St. Isaac of Syria wrote in Mystic Treatises: "... those who find themselves in Hell will be chastised by the scourge of love. How cruel and bitter this torment of love will be! For those who understand that they have sinned against love, undergo greater suffering than those produced by the most fearful tortures. The sorrow which takes hold of the heart, which has sinned against love, is more piercing than any other pain. It is not right to say that the sinners in Hell are deprived of the love of God ... But love acts in two ways, as suffering of the reproved, and as joy in the blessed!" This ancient view is still the doctrine of the Eastern Orthodox Church."

A good article about hell from an Orthodox perspective: Heaven and Hell in the Afterlife

 

[Redheadedstepchild]

Mod Hat

I am closing this thread. There are a few issues here.

1. This is not a debate forum or a place for apologetics.
2. Only Christians can answer the OP
3. Responses may be to the original poster alone.