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Important interpretation? : does having been a monkey, help all future "evolutions" in a monkey way?

If I had a relevant adaptation, but it was hard to use to help me survive, I would give up on it...

  • ...within one generation of relevance

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ...within two generations of relevance

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ...within three generations of relevance

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ...within four generations of relevance

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ...depending on how it help generations of relevance work together

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ....depending on how godly the generations of relevance were

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ...depending on how popular the generations of relevance were

    Votes: 1 33.3%
  • ...depending on how repeatable the generations of relevance were

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ...if I couldn't take a chance on it (whatever that means)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ...if I was guided by God, to give it up

    Votes: 2 66.7%

  • Total voters
    3

Shemjaza

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For reference, this is what was said:

And this is what was quoted



You don't understand appropriacy, or you would have made it simpler for me to understand.

If you don't have a standard that you are aiming for, how do you say "You are wrong"?

Yet we know from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden, that everything has a standard - and we ignore it to our peril: if I die evolved without faith in God, are you going to resurrect me?

But I do have a standard that I am aiming for: I wish for you to discuss the theory of evolution accurately and you repeatedly refuse to learn that you have made mistakes in your understanding.

If there is a God, then there is a right and wrong way of interpreting "Evolution".

God's existence doesn't change that.

Your interpretation is false. The theory of evolution has a meaning and even if Creation was true and evolution was not an accurate description of reality, your interpretation would still be false.

For example: "In the Star Wars movies Darth Vader is a former Jedi Knight who wears black suit." is an accurate statement despite Darth Vader not being real.

And I repent, if I have done something for Evolution the wrong way (I do not need to wallow in guilt, about misinterpreting what Evolution meant). Just as you should repent, if you have done something for Creation the wrong way (and not be frustrated that you did not have perfect faith, from the outset).

I don't care about repentance, I care that you repeatedly and willfully present false statements about evolution.

If I have misrepresented Creation in any way, I'd appreciate soeone informing me so that I didn't make that mistake again.

But you do need to believe in it, to know whether your will is in agreement with what it proposes your purpose should be.

I understand that this is a spiritual question, but if you don't address the spirit first, nothing you can do in your own strength, will profit you.

Unless you understand what something is you can't be able to believe it. If you have false information then your belief or disbelief apples to the false version not the actual matter at hand.

And I extrapolated from the evidence that Evolution is something that species can do, without changing from one into the other - but no one is interested, in part I think, because they have failed to awake their spirit, to the struggle that their species is in. If you had diverse ways of attempting to adapt, you would have evidence that your Evolution was changing over time. But now you say "our Evolution stays the same, regardless of the work we undertake" therefore your work continues to be inappropriate.

It is a process that occurs to species... species are not independent agents with decision making ability.

Evolution is not a choice or a decision nor is it a possession of either an individual or a species.

Monkeys climb trees and pick nits and fight over prowess of aggression, all things you can reason doing as a Man, in contexts where Man's knowledge has continued to grow.

Yet you say "no, if I built a house I would not put branches for swinging on, around it, because the time as monkey, that I posit was common to all of us, is now inappropriately out of context, for how I really really do, want to build a house". You can't understand how confusing that is?

It applies to all sorts of things, how we plan, socialise, build - the common thread between monkey survival and Man survival carries no tradition with it whatsoever. But independently there are traditions for both. That points to something else being behind the parallel the developments of both have evidenced.

A monkey and a human has a vastly different environment, history and behavior.

Millions of years of apes and early humans separate monkeys from humanity, so changes have occured.

You have never clearly described what and how this should be different.

The point remains the same "the evolution of a specific survival, is different than the optimum for that survival"

You are trying to pull the wool over my eyes, that if I take the cake I get a candy bar for free too - regardless of the fact that I can't eat the cake.

The point "the evolution of a specific survival, is different than the optimum for that survival" doesn't make sense in the context of evolution.

Neither "specific survival" nor "optimum for that survival" sensibly line up with any part of the theory of evolution.

Can you present a specific example of either?
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Jesus said "If you believe in Evolution, but don't see anything happening, give it a chance to grow fruit anyway, before you get rid of it"

Jesus said no such thing. If you can show me where he said that, please do.
 
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Tom 1

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Hi there,

So this is a blank slate type question, I really don't know what your position is:

You can see that the interpretation is open, at the moment: right? Like there is nothing to say that having been a monkey will help a human deal with monkey type selection pressures, even if they are not technically still a monkey?

Maybe it partially helps? Could something that used to be human, go back to a tail, if it turned out that living in trees was the only way to survive?

Not trying to let the wind out of your sails, but there is a gap between changing and making the change for a reason - if you get me?

IDK just riffing on the idea that Evolution doesn't just matter now, but matters into the future...

Or of course you could keep claiming its random, and that it's just a question of which randomness wins out in the end?

Lord, help them answer!
What would a ‘monkey type selection pressure’ be in the modern world?
 
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Gottservant

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What would a ‘monkey type selection pressure’ be in the modern world?

A proclivity for higher positioned apartments, a desire to swing between buildings as spiderman in a videogame, interest in beating chest in front of mirrors?

Not necessarily radical departures from being a man, but enough to point out a common history?
 
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Tom 1

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A proclivity for higher positioned apartments, a desire to swing between buildings as spiderman in a videogame, interest in beating chest in front of mirrors?

Not necessarily radical departures from being a man, but enough to point out a common history?
What would drive selection for those behaviours though? You seem to be saying you think evolution is driven by the personal desires and preferences of the evolving animal.
 
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Gottservant

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What would drive selection for those behaviours though? You seem to be saying you think evolution is driven by the personal desires and preferences of the evolving animal.

A well schooled child, knows when he is likely to be punished, even if he does not specifically know what he might be doing wrong (selah)

I am trying to draw out what I would be punished for, on the basis of Evolution, that when I raise my children, I not allow them to make the same mistake.

If you could have children, without mutation, wouldn't you? Or would you pray that they adapt all the more?
 
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Tom 1

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A well schooled child, knows when he is likely to be punished, even if he does not specifically know what he might be doing wrong (selah)

I am trying to draw out what I would be punished for, on the basis of Evolution, that when I raise my children, I not allow them to make the same mistake.

If you could have children, without mutation, wouldn't you? Or would you pray that they adapt all the more?
No one person is going to evolve into some new type of human within the course of a lifetime. You appear to be riffing on some notion you have about evolution that is largely a kind of sci fi fantasy.
 
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AV1611VET

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Hi there, does having been a monkey, help all future "evolutions" in a monkey way?
Yes.

Microevolution will assist monkeys throughout time.

But keep in mind:

Once a monkey, always a monkey.

God created them one day before He created us.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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That's open to debate.

You're happy to call mankind "monkey descendents" but if I equivocate between trees and men, you object?

Lol.

Because it makes no sense for Jesus to have said, according to you, "If you believe in Evolution, but don't see anything happening, give it a chance to grow fruit anyway, before you get rid of it" because as the son of God, Jesus would surely have known THAT'S NOT HOW EVOLUTION WORKS.
 
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Gottservant

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Because it makes no sense for Jesus to have said, according to you, "If you believe in Evolution, but don't see anything happening, give it a chance to grow fruit anyway, before you get rid of it" because as the son of God, Jesus would surely have known THAT'S NOT HOW EVOLUTION WORKS.

How is my "seeing something happening" different to yours?

We both have eyes.

I don't have to believe I see something, because you 'say' you see enough?

Because you say I "continue to see", your sin remains 'looking for more than is there'!
 
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Gottservant

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The thread is basically about this:

Does having been a monkey, have a p-factor that is relevant to Evolution in general?

It begs a question like it:

How is the experience of being a monkey "erased", for the sake of future species - if it (the p-factor) is not there?
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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How is my "seeing something happening" different to yours?

We both have eyes.

I don't have to believe I see something, because you 'say' you see enough?

Because you say I "continue to see", your sin remains 'looking for more than is there'!

I like how you got confused by me directly quoting what you yourself said.

Bottom line: you do not know a single thing you are talking about but you cannot help yourself.
 
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Gottservant

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I like how you got confused by me directly quoting what you yourself said.

Bottom line: you do not know a single thing you are talking about but you cannot help yourself.

What is getting frustrating, is that I have identified that every species feels "special" to itself, yet when they transition to something "more evolved", you don't think they have to give any account, of the way in which they used to feel "important" about that speciality.

In theological terms, what is missing is that being a creature other than you are supposed to be, needs to be repented of.

You will never go from strength to strength, unless you first confess weakness.
 
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Shemjaza

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What is getting frustrating, is that I have identified that every species feels "special" to itself, yet when they transition to something "more evolved", you don't think they have to give any account, of the way in which they used to feel "important" about that speciality.

There are some problems with this idea.

Your idea of specialness is arbitrary and subjective to your opinions and bias. This means there isn't ant real way to assign importance in any objective way.

The phrase "more evolved" isn't really useful because it implies an inherent level of evolution, rather than just being adapted to the environment it exists in.

For something to "have to give any account" it aught to be responsible for causing something. There is not individual and no choice involved in evolution so this isn't valid.

In theological terms, what is missing is that being a creature other than you are supposed to be, needs to be repented of.

Repentance requires the one repenting to be responsible for something. Evolution is not relevant to individual choice, so repentance isn't relevant either.

Also, there isn't any clear way to define the way something is supposed to be.

You will never go from strength to strength, unless you first confess weakness.
Not always true, but totally irrelevant to evolution anyway.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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What is getting frustrating, is that I have identified that every species feels "special" to itself, yet when they transition to something "more evolved", you don't think they have to give any account, of the way in which they used to feel "important" about that speciality.

In theological terms, what is missing is that being a creature other than you are supposed to be, needs to be repented of.

You will never go from strength to strength, unless you first confess weakness.

If you don't want to be frustrated, how about you stop pretending you know what the theory of evolution is about and actually make the genuine attempt to learn what it is about.
 
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