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Important Facts about Evolution

toolmanjantzi

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PsychoSarah said:
You act as if we have to believe this stuff literally happened to see the deeper lessons in the stories.

Actually it makes the lesson come to life for me, how about you?
 
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PsychoSarah

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Actually it makes the lesson come to life for me, how about you?

I find it more meaningful for the stories to be deep than to look at their shallow, literal meaning. I think some people lose the more important messages by being distracted by the miracles and magic.
 
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PsychoSarah

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Whatever works for you.

(Translation, the bible is about as important to him right now as it affects him through other people as opposed to directly).

To be frank, I think most atheists such as myself wouldn't really talk about religion all that much if it didn't impact our lives through other people.
 
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biggles53

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Once again it's sad when the blind laugh at the thought of sight.

Just the first 4 letters in your name would have been sufficient....

AV, not for the first time, commits a logical fallacy, regardless of whether or not your Bible speaks any truth...!
 
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toolmanjantzi

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PsychoSarah said:
-_- you can if you want, but perhaps that would be better in a private message as it doesn't fall along the subject of this thread, which is just meant to clear up what evolution means, not actually assert evolution to be true or not. I hope you realize though that if I really did cover as much content as was available on evolutionary theory, that it would exceed the total content of the bible many times over, right?

Actually I'm not sure of that, considering I also haven't learned everything that there is to learn from scripture. Think about this for one second. If there was no God, and evolution that required no Force to actually get the ball rolling; would this even be able to be reproduced? And If it could be what would it look like?

Possible $$$ billions of dollars and hours of laying tube underground and applying costly machinery to not Force anything at Nothing and expect something to reproduce and feel threatened therefore becoming something of a natural process that was never natural before since it's new.

God (the Force) created (the process) man in his own image (reproduction), Man (the force) chose evil (the process) and has become inherently evil ever since (reproduction).
 
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PsychoSarah

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Actually I'm not sure of that, considering I also haven't learned everything that there is to learn from scripture. Think about this for one second. If there was no God, and evolution that required no Force to actually get the ball rolling; would this even be able to be reproduced? And If it could be what would it look like?

Possible $$$ billions of dollars and hours of laying tube underground and applying costly machinery to not Force anything at Nothing and expect something to reproduce and feel threatened therefore becoming something of a natural process that was never natural before since it's new.

God (the Force) created (the process) man in his own image (reproduction), Man (the force) chose evil (the process) and has become inherently evil ever since (reproduction).

And so you state your beliefs, and that is fine, but I remind you I am not trying to assert evolution to be true in this particular thread (although other people have taken over and done so) thus I honestly don't really find your comments on whether or not you think it is valid in this context. I was just explaining some misconceptions about the theory, all of my original post can be accepted by you without you even having to think the theory is true, because it was about the position of evolution, not the validity of it.
 
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toolmanjantzi

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PsychoSarah said:
Reproduction doesn't need death, a bacteria which divides to reproduce doesn't die in doing so, it just becomes two organisms instead of one. Should a human have a baby they don't have to die for that child to be born. Why the first cells changed? This is the wrong question, there wasn't an active decision on their part to change. I can explain how the process works, but mutation is relatively random thus to an extent these changes don't really have much of a why, they just happen. The reproductive process is imperfect, thus when genetic material isn't correctly copied it can have strange results.

The sperm dies? Sorry, but when a cell splits it also is not 100% the same or is the reproduction 100% the same; hence why you claim it to be imperfect. During Prophase the nucleolus disappears. Where does it go?
 
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toolmanjantzi

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PsychoSarah said:
I find it more meaningful for the stories to be deep than to look at their shallow, literal meaning. I think some people lose the more important messages by being distracted by the miracles and magic.

I would agree with you there. Signs and wonders are what will deceive everyone including the elect (IF THAT WAS POSSIBLE). So, fortunately the elect will not be deceived by the hoopla of miracles and magic.
 
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PsychoSarah

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The sperm dies? Sorry, but when a cell splits it also is not 100% the same or is the reproduction 100% the same; hence why you claim it to be imperfect. During Prophase the nucleolus disappears. Where does it go?

The nucleus is just what contains the DNA, not the DNA itself, it is just it being held together a certain way.

The sperm merges with the egg, its genetic material joining with that of the egg, it doesn't really die either. Sure, there is a lot of death in life and it is necessary to keep populations in balance, but in plenty of cases death is not directly necessary for reproduction.

Yes, the division process is imperfect, is it so hard to contemplate organisms changing when this happens as opposed to dying and being replaced?
 
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toolmanjantzi

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PsychoSarah said:
And so you state your beliefs, and that is fine, but I remind you I am not trying to assert evolution to be true in this particular thread (although other people have taken over and done so) thus I honestly don't really find your comments on whether or not you think it is valid in this context. I was just explaining some misconceptions about the theory, all of my original post can be accepted by you without you even having to think the theory is true, because it was about the position of evolution, not the validity of it.

If the thread involved nothing about the validity of evolution; then why post it on a Christian Forum, or refer to Deities or belief within the numbered assertions?
 
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toolmanjantzi

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PsychoSarah said:
The nucleus is just what contains the DNA, not the DNA itself, it is just it being held together a certain way. The sperm merges with the egg, its genetic material joining with that of the egg, it doesn't really die either. Sure, there is a lot of death in life and it is necessary to keep populations in balance, but in plenty of cases death is not directly necessary for reproduction. Yes, the division process is imperfect, is it so hard to contemplate organisms changing when this happens as opposed to dying and being replaced?
.

But being replaced is a threat therefore goes against the theory of evolution.
 
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PsychoSarah

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If the thread involved nothing about the validity of evolution; then why post it on a Christian Forum, or refer to Deities or belief within the numbered assertions?

Because some people have misconceptions about details and the implications of the theory I wanted to clear up.
 
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PsychoSarah

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.

But being replaced is a threat therefore goes against the theory of evolution.

Not really, no. DNA changing is in fact pivotal to evolutionary theory. I will note your sort of odd way of putting it, but none of this goes against evolutionary theory, and it certainly doesn't support creationism.
 
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toolmanjantzi

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PsychoSarah said:
Because some people have misconceptions about details and the implications of the theory I wanted to clear up.

5. Expecting to be able to observe evolution on the scale of humans splitting from chimpanzee evolution all the way to modern humans directly within a human lifespan is as unrealistic as expecting to flap your arms and fly. It takes millions of years, with some variation in time depending on the environment and other factors which impact evolution. Humans just don't live long enough to see big changes like that in most cases. The only things which reproduce fast enough for us to see changes like that are organisms such as bacteria, and for reasons I don't personally get, creationists just wave them off.

I initially asked about what the specific FORCE was that makes you theory work? And everyone has given me variations of processes for evolution. The above quote points out that TIME is a factor to understand Evolution, and there is obviously no actual Humanzee (except LUCY, whose body parts were found in different areas; possibly from a flood).

If Time is a factor within evolutionary processes and time can be reproduced in a lab. Even under the perfect living conditions for a one cell bacteria how is it that humans still produce humans and gestation stays constant?
 
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PsychoSarah

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I initially asked about what the specific FORCE was that makes you theory work? And everyone has given me variations of processes for evolution. The above quote points out that TIME is a factor to understand Evolution, and there is obviously no actual Humanzee (except LUCY, whose body parts were found in different areas; possibly from a flood).

If Time is a factor within evolutionary processes and time can be reproduced in a lab. Even under the perfect living conditions for a one cell bacteria how is it that humans still produce humans and gestation stays constant?

That time exceeds a human lifespan. We can't just make it go faster like pressing the fast forward button on a remote.
 
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Strathos

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Not sure which subject your referring to, since there were clear points made by the OP referring to the matter of evolution, Deity, and belief. So, back to the question I asked. A force was required wether your talking about evolution, scientific beginnings, or creation. What is the evidence that the Force was not God?

There isn't any such evidence. The OP never said you shouldn't believe in God.
 
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