impediments to the priesthood?

[vanshan]

I've always heard fornication is an impediemnt also. Does anyone know if this is true . . . because I have a friend who is interested in the priesthood, but he made some poor choices while very new to the Orthodox faith, but has reformed his ways, repented of the sin . . . from what he has told me anyway.

Basil

 

[OnTheWay]

I've always heard fornication is an impediemnt also. Does anyone know if this is true . . . because I have a friend who is interested in the priesthood, but he made some poor choices while very new to the Orthodox faith, but has reformed his ways, repented of the sin . . . from what he has told me anyway.

Basil

Stictly speaking if we go by the canons, then yes it would prevent him from being ordained. I would have to say in this case it would probably stick considering the fornication was after his conversion. Now, if before one's baptism would be a different story.

 

[Nickolai]

Stictly speaking if we go by the canons, then yes it would prevent him from being ordained. I would have to say in this case it would probably stick considering the fornication was after his conversion. Now, if before one's baptism would be a different story.

In the current age when all but a select few have abstained from fornication very few would be able to be ordianed if this canon was applied. I know at least one person who grew up Orthodox and had their rebelious phase, but have since repented and are in preparations to be made clergy sometime in the future (he's already a subdeacon).

Now if someone was an unrepentant fornicator or was living with a woman outside of marriage then there would be a problem. Remember, confession and absolution means forgiveness of a thing like fornication, it's mearly an impediment becuase that could cause a scandal, not becuase it's somehow made you unworthy to be clergy. No one is worthy to be clergy, that's why we have grace.

Reader Nikolai

 

[repentant]

Here is an interesting scenario that I am curious about:

What if said male believed that he was being called to the priesthood and many years earlier in his life a girlfriend he once had found herself pregnant and had an abortion against his will, yet he went along with it.

Would this person be negated from the priesthood due to being involved in a killing?

(BTW, a true story of one of my closest friends...he is not considering the Priesthood, but since I am so well aquianted with the story, it makes a good, "for instance.").

The act that caused the abortion to happen in the first place (fornication) would negate the person from being a Priest. Fornication = no Priestood is an old canon which I myself believes needs to be changed somehow. It is very hard in this society to have a young person who has never fornicated. But I don't thinkthis canon is followed to much today. But I myself, if I know I have done something that would canonically negate me from becoming a Priest (fornication, adultery etc) I wouldn't become one or consider it. But that's just me..

 

[Oblio]

Another issue that seems gray is whether some of these issues apply when the prospect was not a member of the Church.

 

[Orthocat]

In the Orthodox Church are there impediments to the priesthood which could or would prevent someone from becoming ordained?

oh...unlike other priestly ordinations you must actually believe in the divinity of Christ...and all the Creed things....

 

[Petronius]

In the German magasine Der Spiegel, no30/24.7.2006 there is an article about a priest in the German Evangelical Church who killed with intention when he was 21 years old i.e. in 1972.
.........

What do you think... ?

 

[Petronius]

In the German magasine Der Spiegel, no30/24.7.2006 there is an article about a priest in the German Evangelical Church who killed with intention when he was 21 years old i.e. in 1972.
.........

What do you think... ?

I read the whole article:
nothing too much to think about, many ordinary people are against this, but the bishops , among whom there is a she-bishop too, are maintaining him....

Some isad things:

since all was disclosed his wife turned very very sick (she knew about his past), one of his children, a daughter, after learning about the past of his father, is depressed and tried to commit suicide several times... poor soul

 

[Grigorii]

In the Orthodox Church are there impediments to the priesthood which could or would prevent someone from becoming ordained?

Impediments are:

1 Unlawful marriage (Apostles 19, Penthekte 26)
2 Bigamy (Apostles 17, Penthekte 3, Basil 12)
3 Marriage to a widow or divorcee (Apostles 18)
4 Marriage to a non-virgin
5 Marriage to an adultress, eve if she and her lawful husband are separate (Apostles 18)
6 Carnal sin with any person prior to marriage (Neocaesarea 10 says that if a cleric guilty of carnal confesses it "afthormethos" (spontaneously, on his own) after ordination, he is to be prevented from excercising sanctifying authority if a priest. A deacon is made a subdeacon.
7 Loss of good reputation (Laodicea 12, Nicea 9) Canons do not specify what constitutes loss of good reputation. This is left to the discretion of the ordainer).
8 Offense punishable by canons.

Source: by prof. Lewis J. Patsavos The Canon Law of the Orthodox Catholic Church p. 73-74, Boston Massachusets, 1975.

Grigorii

 

[Emmanuel-A]

Impediments are:

1 Unlawful marriage (Apostles 19, Penthekte 26)
2 Bigamy (Apostles 17, Penthekte 3, Basil 12)
3 Marriage to a widow or divorcee (Apostles 18)
4 Marriage to a non-virgin
5 Marriage to an adultress, eve if she and her lawful husband are separate (Apostles 18)
6 Carnal sin with any person prior to marriage (Neocaesarea 10 says that if a cleric guilty of carnal confesses it "afthormethos" (spontaneously, on his own) after ordination, he is to be prevented from excercising sanctifying authority if a priest. A deacon is made a subdeacon.
7 Loss of good reputation (Laodicea 12, Nicea 9) Canons do not specify what constitutes loss of good reputation. This is left to the discretion of the ordainer).
8 Offense punishable by canons.

Source: by prof. Lewis J. Patsavos The Canon Law of the Orthodox Catholic Church p. 73-74, Boston Massachusets, 1975.

Grigorii

Thanks Grigorii.

But I still wonder if those sins count when they were done while outside the Church and confessed and repented from when entering it ?

 

[Grigorii]

Thanks Grigorii.

But I still wonder if those sins count when they were done while outside the Church and confessed and repented from when entering it ?

I'm not sure,.. But I do know it is the Bishop who interprets and applies the canons. So he's the one who decides,..

Grigorii

 

[ClementofRome]

Impediments are:

1 Unlawful marriage (Apostles 19, Penthekte 26)
2 Bigamy (Apostles 17, Penthekte 3, Basil 12)
3 Marriage to a widow or divorcee (Apostles 18)
4 Marriage to a non-virgin
5 Marriage to an adultress, eve if she and her lawful husband are separate (Apostles 18)
6 Carnal sin with any person prior to marriage (Neocaesarea 10 says that if a cleric guilty of carnal confesses it "afthormethos" (spontaneously, on his own) after ordination, he is to be prevented from excercising sanctifying authority if a priest. A deacon is made a subdeacon.
7 Loss of good reputation (Laodicea 12, Nicea 9) Canons do not specify what constitutes loss of good reputation. This is left to the discretion of the ordainer).
8 Offense punishable by canons.

Source: by prof. Lewis J. Patsavos The Canon Law of the Orthodox Catholic Church p. 73-74, Boston Massachusets, 1975.

Grigorii

WOW...I personally don't know many men who meet each and every one of these criteria. I am sure that there must be some....or there is some fudging going on... I think that 4, 6 and probably 7 knock most out of acceptability....esp if one grew up in the 60s-70s in the west.

 

[Oblio]

#8 if interpreted strictly (note that it says punishable ) would make us like the Old Believers.

 

[ClementofRome]

#8 if interpreted strictly (note that it says punishable ) would make us like the Old Believers.

I don't understand #8...could someone explain?

 

[InnerPhyre]

Fornication is not an impediment. I brought this question up to my spiritual father and he said it is not the case and had some very harsh words for those who thought that a person who had committed such a sin and had repented couldn't be a priest. Look at Augustine's life of debauchery. There are countless saints who committed fornication and were forgiven and became clergy. Bishops even. Please. Repentance? Anyone remember that word?

 

[InnerPhyre]

Let's also remember that in our Church there is a canon that states that if you urinate while facing Eastward, you must make 300 prostrations. My bathroom faces East. I'd be in a lot of trouble if we followed that.

 

[Greg the byzantine]

Let's also remember that in our Church there is a canon that states that if you urinate while facing Eastward, you must make 300 prostrations. My bathroom faces East. I'd be in a lot of trouble if we followed that.

I had to go check because of that, my bathroom is facing north so I am in the clear.

 

[Oblio]

Facing West

 

[InnerPhyre]

I also feel I should say that as far as the canons go...they aren't set in stone...I intend to become a priest and am currently involved with a woman who is divorced, whose husband cheated on her and left her while she was pregnant with his child. My spiritual father spoke with Archbishop Dmitri on the matter, and His Emminence told him that given the circumstances, if I were to marry this woman, I would still be able to be ordained to the priesthood. We are not Rome. Mercy trumps the law.

 

[Akathist]

I also feel I should say that as far as the canons go...they aren't set in stone...I intend to become a priest and am currently involved with a woman who is divorced, whose husband cheated on her and left her while she was pregnant with his child. My spiritual father spoke with Archbishop Dmitri on the matter, and His Emminence told him that given the circumstances, if I were to marry this woman, I would still be able to be ordained to the priesthood. We are not Rome. Mercy trumps the law.

I am very glad to hear this! I know these are not standards that apply to me as a woman, but it does bother me to think that even though I do not want a divorce I might end up with one and I would hate to think that the church would judge me as less than Orthodox in anyway because of this. And what are the chances at 40-something I would be able to marry someone who has never been married before?Mercy gives me hope on all of these matters.Also, InnerPyre, I think it is great you are considering the Priesthood!