Immunizations

[DieHappy]

Herd Immunity - Your child is a danger to the community?

Has anyone ever said to you, "The reason why your non-immunized kid is safe is because everyone else is immunized" or "Your non-immunized kid is endangering other children"?

Herd immunity is a myth. If it worked then why do we see epidemics in highly vaccinated populations? The theory of herd immunity is that if 85% of the population has immunity then everyone else is protected from an epidemic. Well, look at how well herd immunity works:

In 1984, 27 cases of measles were reported at a high school in Waltham, MA. Over 98% of the students had documentary proof of vaccination (Nkowane B, et al. American Journal of Public Health. 1987;77:434-438.).

In 1985, 157 cases were reported over a 3-month period in Corpus Christi, Texas, and the surrounding Nueces County, despite a vaccination rate of over 99% and significant antibody levels in over 95% (Gustafson T, et al. Measles outbreak in a fully immunized secondary-school population. New England Journal of Medicine. 1987;316:771-774.).

In 1989, an Illinois high school with vaccination records for 99.7% of the students reported 69 cases over a 3-week period (Chen R, et al. American Journal of Epidemiology. 1989;129:17382.).

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. There are reports of epidemics in 100% vaccinated populations. There's no proof the concept of herd immunity occurs in vaccinated populations. The concept of herd immunity, formulated in the early 1900s, was based on natural not artificial immunity (i.e. people getting the disease naturally and having lifelong immunity).


At the recent 41st Annual Interscience Conference on Antimicrobial Agents and Chemotherapy in Atlanta doctors reported a chicken pox outbreak in a day care center in NH that began with a child who had been vaccinated. All this time MDs believed that if a kid was vaccinated and got the disease he/she couldn't pass it on to others. In this study vaccine effectiveness was 40% (prior studies said the vaccine was 71% to 91% effective-who paid for that research?).

 

[DieHappy]

. There's a risk versus benefit ratio that you have to go through with everything. First, take everyone else out of the equation. You can't be responsible for the health of the other kids, you have to worry about yours. Herd immunity is a myth best left to 100 monkeys legends and other bedtime stories. Then, try to determine how effective the vaccine is. Some seem to really work, like tetanus, and others don't seem all that effective. Then weigh the risk of adverse vaccine reaction to the chance of the child getting the disease. Here's where most of us decide that vaccination is not all it's made out to be by the MD's and drug companies. And waiting is always a good idea. You really have a good three and half or four years before you need to worry about school and the child's immunity can grow by leaps and bounds in that time if you let it.



[font=&quot]Mercury toxicity is certainly related to Autism and the amount in vaccines of years past was over 5 times the federal exposure limit. No amount of tuna consumption could match the mmr mercury content of the 70s.[/font]

 

[Linnis]

Next time you want to add why don't you click edit instead of double posting ?

 

[newcreature]

Ahhhh, these type of threads bring out the best in us, don't they?

Die Happy, excellent posts, BTW!

There are FACTS that led me to the choice NOT to vaccinate my children. If you want to see them, look for the other immunization threads I have posted in. I am responsible for the well being of my children, first. Period.

My decisions were based on throughly educating myself on both sides of the subject. (Now, don't get into a huff, I am not in any way undermining anyone who has chosen to vaccinate) That being said, don't undermine those that don't vaccinate. I am not less of a responsible person because i choose not to vaccinate.

Not even going to try to debate this with those that choose to vaccinate. Just my .02!

 

[Christdefinesme]

Okay, so that's fine, if some of you really believe what you're reading and finding about anti-vaccine, I'm not going to tell you TO vaccinate if you feel passionately you shouldn't. I am not going to argue that things need improvement all the time, but I almost gave into the fear about vaccines, but then I prayed and realized, I live in the inner city, my kids are constantly exposed to who knows what, we live in the most culturally diverse area of Chicago, which is beautiful, also means lots of immigrants, and we have a high rate of homeless in our neighborhood. SO, risk vs. benefit, where I live, I'm getting my kids vaccinated. I have a neighbor down the hall with an Autistic child, and she has done a TON of research on this, and has come to the same conclusion as me. I, for one, could never live with it if I knew that I could prevent a serious illness in my child, and they were debilitated or whatever, and it was because I didn't vaccinate them. Well, anyway, I know the "anti-vaccine" people feel exactly the same way about their decision! To each his own....... So, we'll leave it at that, I choose to, and I'm not evil or ignorant, or part of some conspiracy theory for doing so. It's the wisest decision for us, before the Lord. Who wants to argue with that?? As far as the whooping cough thing, and measels - if you do get them even though you are vaccinated, you will most likely get a much milder case. P.S. My faith isn't in the vaccine, it's in OUR LORD. When we live our lives on this fallen earth, ANYTHING can happen at ANY TIME. You just never know. The Lord is the only constant. And I thank him for giving us the wisdom to create vaccines.
Not that human fallability hasn't created mistakes along the way.......
I pray my heart out during every vaccination!

 

[Leanna]

I actually tried to research the "facts" on side effects with vaccinations, but then the only facts I could find, including using other people's resources, were webpages that had disclaimers such as "this is the atuhor's opinion" NOT KIDDING. Never found any real facts.

 

[Lena75]

Ahhhh, these type of threads bring out the best in us, don't they?

Die Happy, excellent posts, BTW!

There are FACTS that led me to the choice NOT to vaccinate my children. If you want to see them, look for the other immunization threads I have posted in. I am responsible for the well being of my children, first. Period.

My decisions were based on throughly educating myself on both sides of the subject. (Now, don't get into a huff, I am not in any way undermining anyone who has chosen to vaccinate) That being said, don't undermine those that don't vaccinate. I am not less of a responsible person because i choose not to vaccinate.

Not even going to try to debate this with those that choose to vaccinate. Just my .02!

Excellent post!

 

[wanderingone]

People do become infected with disease despite being immunized, however the severity of the illness is rarely as bad as it would have been if the person had not been immunized, and the in an area with nearly 100% immunizations the outbreaks are limited and end quickly.

I know many people who laugh about the chicken pox vaccine and how they'd rather their kid just have it since it's not dangerous... until a couple years ago when we started having a serious and problematic outbreak in some New York communities.

I don't want to see mercury levels from the 70's or any other cites from the 70's: that's 30 years ago..

From the CDC:


[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]At a glance: [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Thimerosal is a mercury-containing preservative used in some vaccines and other products since the 1930's. No harmful effects have been reported from thimerosal at doses used in vaccines, except for minor reactions like redness and swelling at the injection site. However, in July 1999, the Public Health Service (PHS) agencies, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), and vaccine manufacturers agreed that thimerosal should be reduced or eliminated in vaccines as a precautionary measure.[/font][/font][/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Today, with the exception of some Influenza (flu) vaccines, none of the vaccines used in the U.S. to protect preschool children against 12 infectious diseases contain thimerosal as a preservative.[/font]


And their fact sheet:

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/thimerosal/thimerosal-vacs-facts.htm

Their response to the evidence of harm book:

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/news/newsltrs/imwrks/2005/4-1-05_spec_imwks.htm

Thimerosal Free Vaccines
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/thimerosal/faqs-availfree.htm#1

Autismn and Vaccines
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/news/iom-thim5-18-04.htm

I am not opposed to people making personal decisions for themselves obviously, however I detest misinformation or information that fails to finish the facts.. is mercery a cause of autism and ADD .. hmm...maybe the studies aren't so hot on the subject, however if the mercury is a cause.. it's no longer in vaccines... has the level of autism risen in the US? It has.. as has the scientifict knowledge that recognizes numerous forms of autism that were previously not diagnosed as autism. Is it coincidence? Did the vaccines really cause autism, nerve disorders and ADD? Maybe...and maybe we won't know unless the number of cases of autism drops now that thimerosal is removed from everything but the flu vaccine.

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

Yes, I saw those posts last night but ended up not responding. The information contained in those anti-vax posts are found all over anti-vax sites and just filled with error. A couple of the doctors who took the data from the Danish study and reworked it added in bias and many doctors and researchers have come out against them. The original study like so many others shows absolutely no link between autism and the MMR. One of the doctors in that second study is paid by anti-vax groups and I'm told actually hits the anti-vax circuit where he is quite the anti-vax celebrity. Also, be wary of the Journal citing their study, this group of doctors is known for their political bent (and conspiracy theories) in their research so they are no exactly an unbiased group.

Anyhow, doesn't really matter. People often thrive on fear and doesn't matter if these anti-vax studies have been disproven or not. If you're a scientist then you'll understand the importance of reproducible studies.

I've actually erased most of my post because I really don't like to debate this anymore. I would just rather share my experiences. I think the majority of moms will take the time to really learn about this topic and that is the best thing to do.

Again, though, for any parent who stumbles across this thread, if you ever want to talk to a mom who has a child with autism and has read the majority of the studies with a fine-tooth comb and believes there is not link, please feel free to message me.

God bless.

 

[Lena75]

All I'll add here is One man's medicine is another man's poison. I know for a fact that my son's autism came from the shots. He was perfectly normal up until his 18th month, when he got another shot. After that, everything went downhill....BIGtime. To this day, we are still working on his speech. He is on an IEP (individual education plan) we're still working on toilet training. That's in a nutshell.

I'm not gonna debate or argue anyone here. If you feel you want to give your child the shots, by all means, it's totally your decision. If you chose not to, that's your decision as well. Anyways, I'll keep my nose out of this thread now....

 

[wanderingone]

As for Africa's "rising" rate of polio despite vaccines... Kano (Nigeria) set back a fairly successful move toward eradicating the disease world wide by this year when they banned the vaccine fearing it was part of an American campaign to cause infertility in the Muslim population and that it caused HIV infection. Kano became an epicenter for the disease when the vaccine was banned ... with polio rising from less than 60 cases in Nigeria to 250 in less than a year.

1/3 of the 800 cases of polio in 2003 were blamed on the vaccine ban in northern Nigeria... 800 cases of polio WORLDWIDE Fewer than 800 cases of Polio worldwide is an astonishing gain considering that in the 80's the disease still effected thousands.